The Children Overboard issue develops

[Jimbo]

It was tough job on a number of of levels for the sailors but they got the job done.
Are you doubting Laura Whittle's account... and why?

Not at all.

Are you doubting the other navy personnel who say they saw boats being sabotaged and children used as bargaining chips? Why?

The Miranda Devine article was a column which quoted the view of a Liberal politician, who's quotes should be treated with caution. Even Miranda said that.

Not quite.

Brandis's information should be treated with caution, as it is based on reports given to the inquiry of what navy personnel thought they saw in the heat of the moment. But it does reveal a "pattern of conduct" by boat people and people smugglers which includes sabotage of their boats.

Devine is quoting from an official report from a Government Senator. She only advises conservatism because the information comes from personnel who were obviously shocked by what they saw.

It is ambiguous and designed to appeal to the lowest elements of pub talk.

As I said, it's an official report from a Government Senator. Hardly 'pub talk' :lol:

Or can we just assume the Senator is a liar too, because he's a Liberal?

It can be countered by other opinion pieces

Such as?

I'm going skiing tomorrow, so you've got three whole days to come up with a decent response. Good luck ;-)

 

[mickdo]

I'm going skiing tomorrow

Me too Jimbo... NSW ski fields?

 

[Anonymous]

It was tough job on a number of of levels for the sailors but they got the job done.
Are you doubting Laura Whittle's account... and why?

Not at all.

Are you doubting the other navy personnel who say they saw boats being sabotaged and children used as bargaining chips? Why?

I've provided a number of sources and quotes from departmental documents and other sites to back up my argument.

All you've done is link to a Miranda Devine article.

If you've got anything else, show us the fruits of your research.

To your credit, you've tried harder than Pando who hasn't offered anything to back up his claims.

 

[0neye]

come on willow sex it up a bit more for us , who did get wet :lol: :lol: :lol: ;-) the loony left are on a winner here little Johnnys looking good for another 4 years 8)

 

[0neye]

When did the ALP know when they where going to call the PM a lier again :?:

If they new all this a year ago or one week ago, any of you Johnny haters know :?:

Willow you know don't you :?:

Becuse i think you know about all that is to be known ;-)

 

[^ Pando]

To your credit, you've tried harder than Pando who hasn't offered anything to back up his claims.

What claims would they be?

 

[0neye]

THE END

 

[Anonymous]

Jimbo,
Those charges of scuttling and kids being thrown overboard are from early accounts and were later shown to be an overreaction from a few who were caught up in the 'heat of the moment'.

Even Miranda Devine's column, with all it's ambiguity, says that information should be taken with caution.

If you read the full report it will explain how the CDF eventually got to the bottom of what actually happened. It's far more credible than that trash you're reading.

 

[Anonymous]

To your credit, you've tried harder than Pando who hasn't offered anything to back up his claims.

What claims would they be?

You claim that children were thrown overboard.
You claim SIEV 4 was sabotaged
You claim the Chief of the Defence report isn't credible.
You claim that the Commander of the Adelaide's account isn't worthy because he is an officer.
You claim that ‘non-officer’ Laura Whittle's story is a complete fabrication.

We should remember that the whole notion that children were thrown overboard was designed to demonise the boat people. It conjured up images of children being tossed into the sea with no regard for their wellbeing, as opposed to them simply getting wet as they made their way to safety.

The government seized upon this with Minister Peter Reith showing pictures on national TV.
Prime Minister John Howard was also quick to demonise the boat people.

It later emerged that no children were thrown overboard and that Peter Reith's pictures were of a different event.

A breakdown in communication? The Department and the Navy getting their wires crossed? Perhaps.
The PM certainly blamed it on poor information he says he received early in the piece.

Once the dust had settled, there was no one left who believed that children were thrown overboard… and that it was a rescue situation with the Siev 4 sinking.

To continue saying that children were thrown overboard will put you at odds with even the PM himself.

The bone of contention is whether or not the PM knew the facts earlier than he has claimed.
Mr Scrafton claims that the PM did know the facts beforehand and has effectively charged Mr Howard with lying to the Australian people.

 

[^ Pando]

[You claim that children were thrown overboard.

How did they get in the water? Did the jump?

You claim SIEV 4 was sabotaged

When did I claim that? I said that it was very convenient that it happened to sink right in front of a missile frigate.

You claim the Chief of the Defence report isn't credible.

I said that the CDF wasn't there, and he wasn't

You claim that the Commander of the Adelaide's account isn't worthy because he is an officer..

Yep. Officers are brain dead, the whole lot of them. :lol:

You claim that ‘non-officer’ Laura Whittle's story is a complete fabrication.

Not claiming anything. I'm saying that I don't believe it.

The rest of your post is heart breaking.......

People who put their children at risk by putting them in the hands of people smugglers have no regard for their wellbeing, whether they are piffing them into the ocean or not.

 

[Rexxy]

People have short memories about people smuggling.

Without people smugglers, amny thousands more jews would have persihed in WW2

 

[millersnose]

so indonesia is putting boat people in ovens then rex

 

[ibeme]

You claim that ‘non-officer’ Laura Whittle's story is a complete fabrication.

Not claiming anything. I'm saying that I don't believe it.

Answer the question Pando, do you think the Laurel Whittle story is a fabrication?

Hell yes. A fabrication of the worst order.

 

[^ Pando]

Yes I think it's a fabrication. I'm not "claiming" it, it's my opinion.

 

[King of the Hill]

come on willow sex it up a bit more for us , who did get wet :lol: :lol: :lol: ;-) the loony left are on a winner here little Johnnys looking good for another 4 years 8)

LEFT WING SCANDAL
WILLOW TOO SCARED TO REPLY TO ONEEYE

Or have you got nothing willow?
:lol:

 

[ibeme]

Yes I think it's a fabrication. I'm not "claiming" it, it's my opinion.

So who do you believe in this entire affair, considering you weren't there to see with your own eyes?

 

[millersnose]

is this the longest thread in 4 corners history?

the lefties feel very strongly about it obviously

perhaps it is the worst travesty of justice to hit mankind since lyndie englund pointed at an iraqi prisoners weewee whilst smiling

 

[^ Pando]

Yes I think it's a fabrication. I'm not "claiming" it, it's my opinion.

So who do you believe in this entire affair, considering you weren't there to see with your own eyes?

I believe the PM. Who do you believe?

 

[ibeme]

Yes I think it's a fabrication. I'm not "claiming" it, it's my opinion.

So who do you believe in this entire affair, considering you weren't there to see with your own eyes?

I believe the PM. Who do you believe?

The PM said they weren't thrown. I believe him on that point. Do you?

I believe Scrafton on the point that the PM knew this prior to the election.

 

[^ Pando]

The PM said they weren't thrown. I believe him on that point. Do you?

I believe Scrafton on the point that the PM knew this prior to the election.

I believe that they were thrown in the water, but I'm unsure of the intent.

Scrafton has an axe to grind. I don't believe him at all.