The Comic Book Film Thread *** SPOILERS ***

[Matua]

There are some clearly defined chapter points that break the film down into around 8 or so television series length episodes. If i recall correctly it was originally going to be released as a mini series. In any case it is designed to be viewed over several sittings if you don't want to binge the whole four hours at once.

That will work for me, I'll watch them in two chapter blocks.

 

[bileduct]

That will work for me, I'll watch them in two chapter blocks.

Yeah I watched it in two two hour blocks, which is probably the perfect way to watch it to be honest.

This is really two films joined together. The first two hours is Justice League being assembled, the rest is dealing with Steppenwolf and friends.

 

[bileduct]

TBH, all the "so much better than Joss version" rah rahing from fans is not really useful as a gauge of how good it is, as these are seeming like partisan reviews rather an actual rating of the movie itself.

The Joss version was a mish mash of two directors and two styles, this is one director and one style. IS the quality more like 300 or more like, well all of his other films.

The question I have is why Whedon was even necessary at all. According to Deborah Snyder the reshoots for the Snyder cut amount to precisely one scene shown at the very end. So 99% of what you see in the Snyder cut was available to Whedon. A competent editor could have cut the film down to 2 to 2.5 hours by ditching a lot of the epilogue and snipping some pieces here and there (like The Flash's visit to the pet store), but the shit Whedon added in himself is what completely stunk up the theatrical version. There was already enough humor present (mostly The Flash and Aquaman) that it didn't need to cheapen others like Batman and Superman with Whedon's lame comedy stylings which were mostly recycled from his other productions. We also didn't need plot lines like the Russian family which are delivered at the expense of relegating Cyborg to being just a background character. Probably the most important aspect of the Snyder cut is that it puts all of the characters on equal footing with each other and gives them all something important to do.

And it is good, easily the best film of the DCEU and better than all but a small handful of the MCU films.

 

[Matua]

The question I have is why Whedon was even necessary at all. According to Deborah Snyder the reshoots for the Snyder cut amount to precisely one scene shown at the very end. So 99% of what you see in the Snyder cut was available to Whedon. A competent editor could have cut the film down to 2 to 2.5 hours by ditching a lot of the epilogue and snipping some pieces here and there (like The Flash's visit to the pet store), but the shit Whedon added in himself is what completely stunk up the theatrical version. There was already enough humor present (mostly The Flash and Aquaman) that it didn't need to cheapen others like Batman and Superman with Whedon's lame comedy stylings which were mostly recycled from his other productions. We also didn't need plot lines like the Russian family which are delivered at the expense of relegating Cyborg to being just a background character. Probably the most important aspect of the Snyder cut is that it puts all of the characters on equal footing with each other and gives them all something important to do.

And it is good, easily the best film of the DCEU and better than all but a small handful of the MCU films.

I assume the suits at WB looked at the relatively poor box office of the Snyder DC films and felt things weren't going in the right direction so wanted a more comedy director involved? It was a mistake on their part but has ultimately worked out in the end (assuming they get the bump in HBO Max subscriptions). Whedon and the suits haven't really spoken about it and the Snyders have been pretty militant so we're only really getting one side at the moment.

I doubt I'll find it better than a small handful of MCU films, as I'm more a MCU fan and you seem more a DCEU fan. I'd just like to see a decent Snyder superhero film because he's sitting on a big fat 0 for me (I rate his efforts on a par with Thor 2, Iron Man 2, Hulk in the MCU and below Aquaman, WW1 in the DCEU).

I'm actually interested to see how different Cyborg is, when watching it first time round I found the actor to be pretty uncharismatic, so will be interesting to see if he's actually an ok screen presence when given more time.

Hopefully I can say I like 2 of his films after this.

 

[shiznit]

The question I have is why Whedon was even necessary at all. According to Deborah Snyder the reshoots for the Snyder cut amount to precisely one scene shown at the very end. So 99% of what you see in the Snyder cut was available to Whedon. A competent editor could have cut the film down to 2 to 2.5 hours by ditching a lot of the epilogue and snipping some pieces here and there (like The Flash's visit to the pet store), but the shit Whedon added in himself is what completely stunk up the theatrical version. There was already enough humor present (mostly The Flash and Aquaman) that it didn't need to cheapen others like Batman and Superman with Whedon's lame comedy stylings which were mostly recycled from his other productions. We also didn't need plot lines like the Russian family which are delivered at the expense of relegating Cyborg to being just a background character. Probably the most important aspect of the Snyder cut is that it puts all of the characters on equal footing with each other and gives them all something important to do.

And it is good, easily the best film of the DCEU and better than all but a small handful of the MCU films.

meh... it turned a 3/10 film into a 6/10 film.

the fact that he needed 4hrs to tell this story says everything about Snyder as a film maker IMO...

I had issues with Endgame being bloated at 3hrs but that had a giant payoff at the end...

4hrs is just obtuse filmmaking at its finest.

He seriously needs to make a decision whether he’s going to make feature films or episodic shows... I’ve never seen a film maker of this caliber struggle to edit his films as bad as he does.

But it’s certainly better than Whedon’s version... and I gotta admit I’m kinda shocked at how badly Whedon played this one.

as to where I rank it... well in the DCEU Wonder Wan and Aquaman shit on it from the top of a skyscraper...

And as for comparing it to the MCU...

i would be very generous to even rank it in the top 10-15 of the MCU.

it’s still an average film only made coherent by doubling its runtime... that’s actually not a good thing when you’re trying to make a successful film.

 

[Game_Breaker]

meh... it turned a 3/10 film into a 6/10 film.

the fact that he needed 4hrs to tell this story says everything about Snyder as a film maker IMO...

I had issues with Endgame being bloated at 3hrs but that had a giant payoff at the end...

4hrs is just obtuse filmmaking at its finest.

He seriously needs to make a decision whether he’s going to make feature films or episodic shows... I’ve never seen a film maker of this caliber struggle to edit his films as bad as he does.

But it’s certainly better than Whedon’s version... and I gotta admit I’m kinda shocked at how badly Whedon played this one.

as to where I rank it... well in the DCEU Wonder Wan and Aquaman shit on it from the top of a skyscraper...

And as for comparing it to the MCU...

i would be very generous to even rank it in the top 10-15 of the MCU.

it’s still an average film only made coherent by doubling its runtime... that’s actually not a good thing when you’re trying to make a successful film.

For a theatrical cut it’s very long, but it’s a directors cut you can stream so the length isn’t a major problem. I thought that was the point of a directors cut

If a movie is good, then the length doesn’t change the quality.

 

[shiznit]

For a theatrical cut it’s very long, but it’s a directors cut you can stream so the length isn’t a major problem. I thought that was the point of a directors cut

If a movie is good, then the length doesn’t change the quality.

Directors cut or theatrical cut... a giant part of the film making process is being able to give a critical eye to your own work during the editing process.

it’s an actual important part of the process... it’s not just there to help people who have a weak bladder in the movie theatres.

I don’t give a f**k if it’s a director’s cut or not... 4hrs is f**king embarrassing... and shows a lack of self control and discipline from Snyder.

the worst part is it’s hardly like they needed 4hrs FFS. It had 3 identical Mcguffins and 2.5hrs of exposition.

Avengers Infinity War was about 2.5hrs long and had 5 Mcguffins... 6 if you include storm breaker. Yet it managed to give everyone their moments in a little more than half the runtime.

 

[Game_Breaker]

Directors cut or theatrical cut... a giant part of the film making process is being able to give a critical eye to your own work during the editing process.

it’s an actual important part of the process... it’s not just there to help people who have a weak bladder in the movie theatres.

I don’t give a f**k if it’s a director’s cut or not... 4hrs is f**king embarrassing... and shows a lack of self control and discipline from Snyder.

the worst part is it’s hardly like they needed 4hrs FFS. It had 3 identical Mcguffins and 2.5hrs of exposition.

Avengers Infinity War was about 2.5hrs long and had 5 Mcguffins... 6 if you include storm breaker. Yet it managed to give everyone their moments in a little more than half the runtime.

There is a big difference between a theatrical cut and film released via streaming service. It didn’t have the same limitations
The whole point of #ReleasetheSnyderCut movement was to give us everything. Being a long movie doesn’t take away from the quality of it

 

[shiznit]

There is a big difference between a theatrical cut and film released via streaming service. It didn’t have the same limitations
The whole point of #ReleasetheSnyderCut movement was to give us everything. Being a long movie doesn’t take away from the quality of it

disagree strongly TBH... I understand director’s cuts... but doubling the original’s runtime is just taking the piss.

And the worst part is even with all the good stuff he added he could have cut a heap of stuff which wasn’t needed... eg the Wonder Woman terrorist scene...

and it isn’t just Snyder by the way... I felt the same way about Peter Jackson’s work on LOTR... he wasn’t as bad as doubling the runtime but he was excessive.

for the release the SnyderCut bullshit... filmmaking is still an art form... which includes effective film editing... you can’t just throw everything you shoot on film.

All the fanboys can jump up and down about how awesome/terrible the film is... but I’m seriously interested to see if a big studio will ever give him the reigns of a large franchise like this again...

I think he might be better suited to helm a streaming series.

 

[shiznit]

I should also say it’s not all bad... there’s a heap of great stuff in the film... Cyborgs part which should never have been taken out.

Steppenwolf was a huge improvement... like colossal improvement.

as down as i am on Snyder and the excessive runtime of his cut... Whedon is f**king terrible here... you just can’t defend how badly he went here.

It’s amazing how he can go from the original avengers which was the key cog which sent the MCU on its way...

to this...

 

[The Axe of Druss]

meh... it turned a 3/10 film into a 6/10 film.

the fact that he needed 4hrs to tell this story says everything about Snyder as a film maker IMO...

I had issues with Endgame being bloated at 3hrs but that had a giant payoff at the end...

4hrs is just obtuse filmmaking at its finest.

He seriously needs to make a decision whether he’s going to make feature films or episodic shows... I’ve never seen a film maker of this caliber struggle to edit his films as bad as he does.

But it’s certainly better than Whedon’s version... and I gotta admit I’m kinda shocked at how badly Whedon played this one.

as to where I rank it... well in the DCEU Wonder Wan and Aquaman shit on it from the top of a skyscraper...

And as for comparing it to the MCU...

i would be very generous to even rank it in the top 10-15 of the MCU.

it’s still an average film only made coherent by doubling its runtime... that’s actually not a good thing when you’re trying to make a successful film.

It was 4 hours because Snyder originally wanted it to be a 2 part movie duality, not 1 single film

WB only wanted one movie so we got the abortion theatrical release

 

[bileduct]

It's a f**kin' director's cut, for a film that should have always been a lengthy one considering how ambitious it is. Warner Bros was obviously trying to play catch up with the MCU and in one film they wanted Justice League assembled without the majority of the characters having had their own solo films first as well as establishing a long term Thanos-level storyline. It required more than the two hours Warner Bros was only willing to commit to.

One of the best things about streaming and the coronavirus shutting down cinemas is that studios are really starting to invest in alternative models for consumption of their productions. There are so many stories, particularly in the comic book world, that cannot be told in the traditional theatrical release model that herds sheep in and out of the cinema as quickly as possible for the maximum amount of daily screenings possible. Look at adaptations of Ender's Game, The Dark Tower and both attempts to bring the Phoenix Saga to the screen. Everything is dumbed down and excised of important content just to fit the model which just pisses off fans of the original material. Hopefully we'll see more of these long format releases in future.

And the comparison to Avengers, let's remember that even after the vast majority of characters involved had their own solo films as well as two previous Avengers teamup films, they still needed 5.5 hours to tell that final story.

 

[Game_Breaker]

disagree strongly TBH... I understand director’s cuts... but doubling the original’s runtime is just taking the piss.

And the worst part is even with all the good stuff he added he could have cut a heap of stuff which wasn’t needed... eg the Wonder Woman terrorist scene...

and it isn’t just Snyder by the way... I felt the same way about Peter Jackson’s work on LOTR... he wasn’t as bad as doubling the runtime but he was excessive.

for the release the SnyderCut bullshit... filmmaking is still an art form... which includes effective film editing... you can’t just throw everything you shoot on film.

All the fanboys can jump up and down about how awesome/terrible the film is... but I’m seriously interested to see if a big studio will ever give him the reigns of a large franchise like this again...

I think he might be better suited to helm a streaming series.

Each to their own
You can easily watch the movie over 2 sessions because you have the power to do that given it’s a steaming platform.

Half way point being when they resurrected Supes. That’s probably a good ending of a solo movie anyway
But the movie was good so the 4 hours didn’t bother me

 

[shiznit]

Each to their own
You can easily watch the movie over 2 sessions because you have the power to do that given it’s a steaming platform.

Half way point being when they resurrected Supes. That’s probably a good ending of a solo movie anyway
But the movie was good so the 4 hours didn’t bother me

you are right it is each to their own..

But to me it’s actually about good filmmaking.

Snyder has a ‘director’s cut’ yet what was his theatrical version? What was his plan for a theatrical version?

films are made to be watched at their peak in the cinema.

All great filmmakers go through the editing process which is part of what makes them great.

f**king Nolan is famous for the fact his editors have nightmares trying to trim down his work.

to me all this says about Snyder is that he should be making 4hr movies for Netflix for the rest of his career...

I honestly don’t think he has it in him to release feature theatrical films anymore...

 

[Game_Breaker]

you are right it is each to their own..

But to me it’s actually about good filmmaking.

Snyder has a ‘director’s cut’ yet what was his theatrical version? What was his plan for a theatrical version?

films are made to be watched at their peak in the cinema.

All great filmmakers go through the editing process which is part of what makes them great.

f**king Nolan is famous for the fact his editors have nightmares trying to trim down his work.

to me all this says about Snyder is that he should be making 4hr movies for Netflix for the rest of his career...

I honestly don’t think he has it in him to release feature theatrical films anymore...

This is still good film making. It just had the advantage for not being limited by studio imposed run time

Would you consider films like Godfather II or Once Upon a Time in America or Schindler's List bad film making?
Ben Hur was pretty long too but that was in the day when movies had intermissions half way through.

 

[bileduct]

Let's get real here, anyone that thinks Zack Snyder was going to edit together a four hour Justice League for theatrical release is kidding themselves. This HBOmax version is what you get when the constraints of cinema distribution and commercial television are completely removed.

There's enough in there that could have been trimmed down to bring it in under three hours and still tell the exact same story. A two hour version would have had to sacrifice a few pieces of the story and the pacing would be frenetic, but still doable. So I would suggest that a Snyder theatrical cut of Justice League would have been somewhere between 150 to 180 minutes which would have been perfectly reasonable for this kind of storytelling.

 

[Rhino_NQ]

Did it in one hit, unlike endgame i could atleast oause this one to have a piss lol. Definatley an improvement and made the story. Doesnt compare to dc still but does show how much of a shitshow the upper management is there

 

[Mr Angry]

So I have been watching the marvel thing, I have a thing for Darcy.

She rocks my world.

 

[Zoidberg]

Watched the Snyder cut last night in 1 go. It obviously felt like it went a while but I wasn’t bored at all.
There is a lot to take in but I really enjoyed it. I have a feeling I will enjoy it even more the 2nd watch because I’m not comparing (to Whedon version) or waiting (for that Joker scene).
I do hope they can find a way to continue this universe but I highly doubt it will happen.

 

[bileduct]

RLM actually liked it... except for the epilogue.

Interesting that the 4:3 presentation doesn't actually cut anything out as far as the picture goes. Everything that is in the widescreen theatrical release is there, there's just more at the top and bottom. You could take a 4K version of the Snyder Cut and do a zoom and crop to create a 1080p widescreen version without any distortion at all, which I am sure someone will do soon.