The De-Merge Thread

[thebigredv]

Pre-merger St George had a winning percentage of 60% (Illawarra 40%)

Funnily enough St George Illawarra have a winning percentage of 50.8% and it would appear that this season we will fall on to the negative side of win-loss for the first time since pretty much the initial days of the merger's conception. Thanks Paul and Steve for that one!

These stats don't lie for mine - we are better off as St George. Call me a dreamer or call me what you will but there was a special something about the Red V of St George which the players of today don't or can't seem to appreciate.

There has been some disunity between Steelers and Dragons people causing a not-so-hidden turmoil at the board level manifesting greatly in woeful on field performance, abhorrent recruitment and some of the most inexplicable coach retention decisions the rugby league world has ever seen. To a lesser extent there seems to be a question mark over talented players wanting to live, train and commute between Sydney and Wollongong - be it justified or not.

It is 2021,100 years since the greatest club of all's birth and the only 100 I see coming up is the one on the scoreboard when we face the Roosters.

The NRL are looking to expand, and yes I realise that is in Brisbane. Call me crazy, but maybe we can get in V'Landy's ear about this one. Illawarra can reclaim their heartland and we can fight it out with the Sharks for survival. That battle alone would sure beat the soulless performances we have seen over the last 10 years. I would take the road that Souths went down even if it meant pain/relegation for long term success. Look at the result today, look at the way the Bunnies have lived on. Even if we lost and were kicked out, they could never have a real comp without us. We'd be back.

Sorry Steelers but our identity has been clouded, and quite frankly something big needs to change.

 

[muzby]

Lol..

This shit again.

Less than half the Australian population has ever seen st George win a stand alone premiership.

Let alone since the JV for all but one year we’ve had the club managed by CEOs who are also on the St George Dragons board.

Infact, the only constant in this quagmire has been the St George Leagues club.

I say we jettison the dead wood & start afresh as the Illawarra Dragons.

 

[Kylez3]

The St George region is half dead if I'm being brutally honest.

-Elderly supporter base who are living off what happened 50 years ago,
- Out-dated home ground with no real good parking spaces.
- The Leagues club is an embarrassment.
- There has been a significant demographic change in the area and the next generation aren't following the team for a variety of reasons.
- Soccer has gained huge popularity in the St George region
- St George don't produce many quality juniors anymore especially compared to the Illawara area which is a region stacked with talent. The Dragons SG Ball, Flegg teams etc get flogged most years.

I'm 26 years old, one of the younger members on this forum, and I probably get a different perspective than some.

Ultimately these discussions are tiring. We are a joint-venture now - just gotta deal with it.

 

[Dragon David]

Yes, we are a joint venture. We won a comp as a joint venture. We all know how badly we have been during the Steve Price and Paul McGregor days.

The only way now is up. Hook will be using the initial games to see where we are fundamentally weak and see if these weaknesses involve some or more players that either need more "coaching" or just a waste of time and gotten rid of come end of contract time. He has to be given a reasonably good time to make adjustments and sackings as he sees fit.

We will have more terrible games this year no doubt about it. Our squad isn't the greatest and as some one has said on the forum, even if we had both Bennett and Bellamy as our coaches, they would probably find it hard to get wins with the squad we have.

In any team sport you have high moments and low ones. Take the cricket, a decade or so ago, we were unbeatable with Warnie, McGrath, Taylor, Ponting and so on. Now we lack players of similar ilk and the results reflect it.

I am sure that the Dragons will have the players one day that will bring us the trophy again for the joint venture. It is not that we haven't one won before and the time will come again.

 

[pinball_collector]

come on you can't blame the Illawarra for this.

someone from the illawarra steelers side..we were never, ever this bad

 

[President Trump]

St George is a dead brand. Time to accept the inevitable and be full time in Illawarra.

 

[This Year?]

If we split, St George will definitely become like Newtown and fade into obscurity. Illawarra will survive on Gordon money until some rich flog will buys it and then sells it in a few years after not being able to make it profitable.
Surely neither side of the JV would want to see that? Together we at least have some hope of a better future. Both sides are as much to blame for the dark place we are in right now.
We should be celebrating a centenary of St George instead of writing our suicide note.

 

[Disillusioned Tiger]

Yes, we are a joint venture. We won a comp as a joint venture. We all know how badly we have been during the Steve Price and Paul McGregor days.

The only way now is up. Hook will be using the initial games to see where we are fundamentally weak and see if these weaknesses involve some or more players that either need more "coaching" or just a waste of time and gotten rid of come end of contract time. He has to be given a reasonably good time to make adjustments and sackings as he sees fit.

We will have more terrible games this year no doubt about it. Our squad isn't the greatest and as some one has said on the forum, even if we had both Bennett and Bellamy as our coaches, they would probably find it hard to get wins with the squad we have.

In any team sport you have high moments and low ones. Take the cricket, a decade or so ago, we were unbeatable with Warnie, McGrath, Taylor, Ponting and so on. Now we lack players of similar ilk and the results reflect it.

I am sure that the Dragons will have the players one day that will bring us the trophy again for the joint venture. It is not that we haven't one won before and the time will come again.

I wouldn’t necessarily say the ONLY way is up. Don’t get too confident yet.

 

[Disillusioned Tiger]

Manly got it right and ended their merger very quickly. At the Tigers we still have a small percentage who want to go backwards and end the merger. It’s not only far too late, as now a whole generation of supporters have grown up with the JV, but financially it would be suicide. Surely Saints couldn’t afford to go it alone and, like a lot of Sydney, the dwindling juniors is a major concern. Who needs who the most is the question you have to ask. I would say Illawarra is now the stronger of the two. Just out of curiosity, why is it still the St George Dragons and not the St George Steelers? Is it true the club’s real name is The St. George - Illawarra Steeler Dragons? Not sure what the Illawarra side got out of the deal in the first place.

 

[SIR LANCELOT]

I like the merger.I don't approve of the recruitment.Must be fixed.

 

[The_Frog]

Not sure what the Illawarra side got out of the deal in the first place.

They were in no position to bargain. The Dragons and St George were and are such strong marketing brands. The Illawarra region does provide the lion's share of the Dragons junior development though, and they'd be stupid to cut that loose.

 

[Forbes Creek Dragons]

Not for me, nearly all our good juniors are from the Illawarra like Sullivan and co and if we keep that bunch together they can win a gf together. We just all have to be honest and realise this is a rebuilding year. Moving to Sydney isn’t going to fix our problems and no player on the market currently available is either. We can’t sign players because what gun player wants to be a part of a wooden spoon contending side? JDB back would be massive. Kerr and Lawrie’s continued improvement is another. Sims and Vaughan getting back to origin form and we might be able to attract another player. I believe if we be patient the right player will come along.

 

[St Tangles]

Not this rubbish again
We are St George Illawarra and have been for over 20years

Our problem is not the merger it could actually be our strength if we had the right people running the club

 

[Dragon David]

I wouldn’t necessarily say the ONLY way is up. Don’t get too confident yet.

This year will be a complete work in progress but for the years ahead it will be upward movement. It has got to happen - one year at least.

 

[JohnnoMcJohnno]

OK, demerging is not the answer. But then what the hell is? Because our best players are happy to leave. Our highest paid players are happy to do bugger all. We have to pay overs for decent players. We have bugger all TPA's despite being based in the third biggest city in the state. A promising junior leaves because of the commute. The previous coach had to paint the changerooms. The whole thing stinks of mediocrity, lack of pride and lack of care. Meanwhile the Bulldogs who finished second last seem able to attract new players.

I'm only an outsider looking in but we just seem so un-professional.

 

[Chungas revenge]

Pre-merger St George had a winning percentage of 60% (Illawarra 40%)

Funnily enough St George Illawarra have a winning percentage of 50.8% and it would appear that this season we will fall on to the negative side of win-loss for the first time since pretty much the initial days of the merger's conception. Thanks Paul and Steve for that one!

These stats don't lie for mine - we are better off as St George. Call me a dreamer or call me what you will but there was a special something about the Red V of St George which the players of today don't or can't seem to appreciate.

There has been some disunity between Steelers and Dragons people causing a not-so-hidden turmoil at the board level manifesting greatly in woeful on field performance, abhorrent recruitment and some of the most inexplicable coach retention decisions the rugby league world has ever seen. To a lesser extent there seems to be a question mark over talented players wanting to live, train and commute between Sydney and Wollongong - be it justified or not.

It is 2021,100 years since the greatest club of all's birth and the only 100 I see coming up is the one on the scoreboard when we face the Roosters.

The NRL are looking to expand, and yes I realise that is in Brisbane. Call me crazy, but maybe we can get in V'Landy's ear about this one. Illawarra can reclaim their heartland and we can fight it out with the Sharks for survival. That battle alone would sure beat the soulless performances we have seen over the last 10 years. I would take the road that Souths went down even if it meant pain/relegation for long term success. Look at the result today, look at the way the Bunnies have lived on. Even if we lost and were kicked out, they could never have a real comp without us. We'd be back.

Sorry Steelers but our identity has been clouded, and quite frankly something big needs to change.

 

[Forster Dragon]

Lol..

This shit again.

Less than half the Australian population has ever seen st George win a stand alone premiership.

Let alone since the JV for all but one year we’ve had the club managed by CEOs who are also on the St George Dragons board.

Infact, the only constant in this quagmire has been the St George Leagues club.

I say we jettison the dead wood & start afresh as the Illawarra Dragons.

How about just Illawarra and leave it at that.St George Dragons would also be nice.

 

[Chungas revenge]

No doubt the StGeorge identity has been changed,there seems to less spirit and will to win.I feel only a top shelf coach can instill whats missing.I think the travelling would turn off a lot of players.

 

[Willow]

This shit again.

Yeah, funny how it won't go away.

 

[possm]

Yes, we are a joint venture. We won a comp as a joint venture. We all know how badly we have been during the Steve Price and Paul McGregor days.

The only way now is up. Hook will be using the initial games to see where we are fundamentally weak and see if these weaknesses involve some or more players that either need more "coaching" or just a waste of time and gotten rid of come end of contract time. He has to be given a reasonably good time to make adjustments and sackings as he sees fit.

We will have more terrible games this year no doubt about it. Our squad isn't the greatest and as some one has said on the forum, even if we had both Bennett and Bellamy as our coaches, they would probably find it hard to get wins with the squad we have.

In any team sport you have high moments and low ones. Take the cricket, a decade or so ago, we were unbeatable with Warnie, McGrath, Taylor, Ponting and so on. Now we lack players of similar ilk and the results reflect it.

I am sure that the Dragons will have the players one day that will bring us the trophy again for the joint venture. It is not that we haven't one won before and the time will come again.

Sorry, but I don't believe we are a 'joint venture'. The joint venture ended the day that Illawarra sold their shares to a non leagues club entity, WIN Corp. Our St George Club is no longer joined to the Illawarra Club, it is joined to WIN Corp a non rugby league entity.

I suppose another club is in a similar position to us. South Sydney has a private company in joint ownership but is not considered to be a 'joint venture'. Manly are in a similar situation and all though I do not know the arrangements of other clubs, it is possible that others like the Broncos, and the Storm are in a similar structure.

Using a Club name to reflect the district/s that they represent is nothing new. For example Canterbury-Bankstown, Manly-Warringa and Cronulla-Southerland all use a double barrel name to reflect the districts they represent however, I doubt very much and any of these three clubs consider themselves to be a joint venture. Also a mere change of names should not and has not erased the history of a club, for example Eastern Suburbs to Sydney Rooster and Canterbury-Bankstown to Sydney Bulldogs. Even South Sydney who were deemed to be unviable and then allowed to re-enter the NRL Competition did not not have any of their history erased.

I'd say the easiest way to amalgamate some Sydney clubs to make room for expansion in other regions, would be to identify such clubs and introduce a bidding system to have one of these clubs hold the NRL licence and for all of the clubs in the newly joined district hold a licence to play in the NSW or Qld Cup Competitions. For example:

• Join St George, Cronulla and Illawarra, with the current licence holders St George and Cronulla bidding for the ownership.
• Join Canterbury and Parramatta and have them each of them bid for the licence.
• Insist that Manly incorporate both North Sydney and Central Coast into their district.
• Insist that Eastern Suburbs and South Sydney join together with each club bidding for the licence.
• In the same way Penrith and Wests join together and each bid for the licence.

Such a restructure would release 5 new NRL licences without increasing the number of teams in the competition (16 teams). So the NRL could expand with 5 stronger Sydney clubs. As in the past, all clubs that co-operate with this joining will be given salary cap and other financial incentives.

My suggested new NRL licenses to be allocated are:
1. Darwin / PNG
2. Sunshine Coast / Brisbane North
3. South Island NZ
4. Adelaide
5. Perth

There will be some NRL players that will become available from Sydney who will no doubt be snapped up by the new clubs located outside of Sydney.

With regards to SGI, we have had a partial cleanout in 2020. Further work in this area needs to be conducted starting at Board level and including some left overs at football club management level (Horan and Millward). Mary has gone but the two men most responsible for the decline of our once great club (Doust and Craig Young) still remain and so, for us to move on from this horrible past, these two also need to be let go.