The ESL

[ali]

I know this has been discussed to death, but with Kimmorley / Ross all of a sudden being approached by "scouts" from the UK, it just firms up with me what a backwater, useless, pathetic competition they run over there. It also re-instates why they will always be an International Rugby League whimp.

Seriously, instead of spending heaps of $$$ flying to Australia, and pilferring all our decent players like a scab that won't tear from the skin, how about investing in some British youth, and developing THEM to improve their countries League talent?

They are so intent in garnishing any Australian player pool offal, they forget to manage their own backyards. With the Aust. dollar on the improve, I would love one day for it not to be viable for our players to retire over there.

Their piss weak competition would then crumble, as the flow of Australian talent has sustained their pitiful existence for the past decade. The reason for this? They spend more bludging from us, than they do developing their own children, and for that, and I repeat, it is probably the most embarrassing competition in the world over there.:crazy:

In my opinion the Super League is currently better managed and growing faster than the NRL. The governing body is investigating strongly in youth, but unfortunately they don't have the player base that Australia does. So as long as there are far more players in Australia, and only 16 pro clubs in Aus, whilst there are are around 14 or 15 fully pro clubs in Super League / national league 1, then there will always be a flow of players to Europe.

 

[Brownie.Kougari]

I think Ryan is onto something here. Australians should only ever play in Australia. New Zealanders should only play in NZ. Damn Australian clubs pilfering NZ for talent. Can't Australian clubs produce their own talent. Scumbags!!

But I think Ryan is also being very short sighted. Why stop at the national level? Take the state level for example.

Why the hell are there Queenslanders playing for NSW or Victorian clubs? Can't these pilfering NSW/Victorian clubs produce their own talent. Scumbags!! You should only ever play for the state you were born/grew up in.

But why stop there. What about the district level?

Penrith juniors should only ever play for Penrith
Parramatta juniors should only ever play for Parramatta
Roosters juniors should only ever play for ...

But why stop at the sporting level.

You should only ever work and live in the country you were born/grew up in.

Send all the Mediterranean Descendants/asians/sudanese back to where they came from!!!

END IMMIGRATION NOW!

WE WANT PAULINE HANSON!!

Nice rant

 

[In-goal]

sudanese

I'll turn a blind eye

 

[Billythekid]

Seriously, do you believe any of that bs?

I suppose you consider the English soccer premier league a joke as well given the number of overseas players playing in that comp? Any comp wants the best most attractive players in the world. Some can afford it, some can't. ps I presume you consider the number of Kiwis and islanders running around the NRL ok?

A few things you have to realise (as you clearly have no clue!). 1. Rl is a relatively minor sport in the UK so they don't have the playing numbers Australia has 2. Ask yourself where junior development in Australia would be with no pokies, then you will see why jnr English development is smaller 3. Despite being a much smaller comp than the NRL in terms of fans, viewers and players etc they can still generate as much money and therefore compete for the same players. Maybe if the NRL clubs got off their backsides and earnt some money they could put the salary cap up and we wouldn't be losing players?
4. The ESl is actively discouraging the signing of overseas players by reducing the allowed quota by one player every year for six years
5. The old "players going for an easy retirment" menatlity simply isn't true any more. Take a look at the age and calibre of players signed over the last two seasons in the ESl and you will see this is changing. When the reduced quota becomes greater it will mean even greater talented players will be targetted.

You really haven't a clue have you Ryan? Who needs RU when you have RL fans happy to run our sport down?

The thread should of ended here well said.

 

[Perth Red]

I always find it interesting that SL has roughly the same salary cap as the NRL despite the clubs having no pokie income, lower crowds and much smaller grants from TV. Most clubs are operating on less than $9million in ESL yet they can still afford to spend the same on players salaries as NRL clubs on $12-15 million.

 

[dallymessenger]

Cronulla - LoL - not likely mate.
Manly, and Manly only - and yes, I'm peeved about Monaghan / Hicks playing for Warrington.

Whilst I don't support The Sharks (I made the comment without bias), I think it wrong that say a Huddersfield talent scout sits at Toyota Park instead of looking for home grown talent to develop. It's not good for our game here (as it draws on the talent pool our Nation produces), it's not good for The UK, as it ties resources up (money, personell and time wise to develop their own). The UK should do everything in its power to act with a view that they may once again be competative in the International arena.

I get thoroughly fed up each year when I hear XYZ is going over to the ESL. It's Puletua now for goodness sakes. I hear they are after Finch & Dobson. They are looking at Ross & Kimmorley.
This is in 24 hours.

I mean - someone from Salford in 06/07 actually flew over, to take a look at Kite to see if they could lure him overseas. This was mid contract ! Maybe he could get a release if they offered him enough dough? Joke !

I honestly can't see why anyone would think the talent going over there to chase the bucks is good for the game as a whole. From both sides. I know as a Manly fan, I have an affinity with my players. I hate seeing them leave - and yeah, I know it's all about business. But that business would be nothing without us, the fans.

To that end, it's why players like Steve Menzies will always go down as one of the best players to have ever played the game throughout history. Others will be Lockyer / Hindmarsh (most teams have one or two) - absolute clubmen that do it for pride, the club and the fans.


The funny thing is as well, is these players will be looked after by their community post football. Example - Sea Eagles Home Loans with Steve Menzies.

you didnt lose monaghan to SL. your club didnt want him.

your post was full of stupid comments about the ESL, which imo is a very good competition.

average crowds are 10,000 now, they are starting to produce some fantastic new players and are looking at expanding to wales and france again.

id much prefer they went to SL than to union.

and the RFL are looking at reducing imports over time. it is a concern but the way you stated it was way too hard imo

 

[avit]

Cronulla - LoL - not likely mate.
Manly, and Manly only - and yes, I'm peeved about Monaghan / Hicks playing for Warrington.

Whilst I don't support The Sharks (I made the comment without bias), I think it wrong that say a Huddersfield talent scout sits at Toyota Park instead of looking for home grown talent to develop. It's not good for our game here (as it draws on the talent pool our Nation produces), it's not good for The UK, as it ties resources up (money, personell and time wise to develop their own). The UK should do everything in its power to act with a view that they may once again be competative in the International arena.

I get thoroughly fed up each year when I hear XYZ is going over to the ESL. It's Puletua now for goodness sakes. I hear they are after Finch & Dobson. They are looking at Ross & Kimmorley.
This is in 24 hours.

I mean - someone from Salford in 06/07 actually flew over, to take a look at Kite to see if they could lure him overseas. This was mid contract ! Maybe he could get a release if they offered him enough dough? Joke !

I honestly can't see why anyone would think the talent going over there to chase the bucks is good for the game as a whole. From both sides. I know as a Manly fan, I have an affinity with my players. I hate seeing them leave - and yeah, I know it's all about business. But that business would be nothing without us, the fans.

To that end, it's why players like Steve Menzies will always go down as one of the best players to have ever played the game throughout history. Others will be Lockyer / Hindmarsh (most teams have one or two) - absolute clubmen that do it for pride, the club and the fans.


The funny thing is as well, is these players will be looked after by their community post football. Example - Sea Eagles Home Loans with Steve Menzies.

 

[westie]

Barret? Nutley? Sullivan? Grose? etc etc etc

 

[S.S.T.I.D]

You sound like a moron of a Union journalist who said in 2000 that Rugby League would be dead in England within 5 years because of Rugby Union.

What has happened since then?

The ESL has grown, in terms of crowds and TV audiences, every year since.

This journalist then came out in 2005 or maybe it was 2006 retracting his comments.

A recent ESL game attracted over 400,000 TV viewers. Compare that to the most anticipated RU game of the year between Gloucester and Bath.

That game attracted less than 200,000 TV viewers.

So before you go sounding like an ignorant little moron maybe you want to STF up!

Well done. And with franchising coming into play next season, meaning no more promotion/relegation, I fully expect the Super League to continue to grow even further, into France and Wales possibly.

 

[Ryan]

THIS is the man who arrived in Australia yesterday ready to plunder Australia's Test side and pinch our NRL stars.
He is Ian Lenagan, chief executive of English Super League giants Wigan and the man with the biggest chequebook in the game.
Lenagan will hold talks today with Parramatta hooker Mark Riddell before attending tomorrow night's Centenary Test match against the Kiwis at the SCG.
Two Test players he is expected to target are forwards Carl Webb and Ryan Hoffman. Lenagan told The Daily Telegraph last night he was searching for a centre and five-eighth along with any forward, particularly a hooker.
"We are looking at key areas,'' he said, "I will be going to the Test. Anybody playing for Australia, one has to contemplate. It will be interesting to watch Australia in a block. There is a shortage (at Wigan) and we are always looking for good players.
"It will be much better seeing them (the players) live. We do a lot of research and it will be the chance to pre-meet players and see if they match us from a character point of view.
"We will be watching players from both sides (in the Test) but I don't want to name any individual targets. It is too early for that.''
Webb's manager Sam Ayoub confirmed last night his client would be interested in any approach from Wigan, who are ready to release former Test five-eighth Trent Barrett from the final year of his contract in 2009.
"Carl will certainly consider any offer from Wigan if the deal is right,'' Ayoub said. "His preference would be to stay here for another two to three years but he is also more than happy to consider any offer worth his while.''
Storm chief executive Brian Waldron is hoping to extend Hoffman's contract, which expires after 2009, to prevent any move to Lancashire.
Waldron had to watch last year as cashed-up Warrington pinched centre Matt King in the prime of his career.
"Our intention is to ensure Ryan remains here for a long time,'' Waldron said. "It's too early in his career for Ryan to go anywhere.''
________________________________________________________________________

Wigan poacher ... the man with the biggest chequebook in rugby league, Wigan boss Ian Lenegan will target tomorrow night's Test match in his chase for Australia's richest talent. Photograph: Mark Evans / The Daily Telegraph

________________________________________________________________________
<DIV class="group instory-dropzones">

 

[Ryan]

Some REAL fans responses:-

England need our best to boost the game profile, there will be a new wales team and probably abother french team, so they need big names to also help these clubs. They dont want to wait 5 years and produce their own players, they want a quick solution which is jurting english rugby league.
​

Posted by: zac of Sydney 11:24am today

Try Willy Mason and a few others at Easts. Those guys are always looking for better club.
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Posted by: wayne downie of gold coast 11:12am today

Maybe some Aussie NRL clubs should look at poaching ESL club execs and finding out how they can afford to pay their players that sort of money without relying on poker machines.
​

Posted by: Yuri of Canbera 11:01am today

No wonder the Great Britain team and the England test Teams are so weak - the UK Super League is filled with Australian's, Kiwis and players of other nationalities. Next time a UK based club wins the "World" Club Challenge and claim hiow they are closing the gap on the NRL they should look at the makeup of their team.
​

Posted by: John H of North Parramatta 10:48am today

ill just die if ryan hoffman leaves to go to england in my eyes hes probably the best second rower going round and easily one of the storms best strike weapons. i hope the hoff has the dencecy to stay in australia after all he has just cemented jerseys in state and international level. whhhhoooooooooooo GO KNIGHTS
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Posted by: the hoff ffan of sydney 9:56am today

Well this should act as a wake up call to Gallop & co to make changes to the NRL salary cap ASAP, these guys have been asleep at the wheel for too long & our game is suffering because of it
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Posted by: David 9:40am today

Maybe you could take Doust back to England with you. Dragons fans would even pay you to take him.
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Posted by: the rodster of sydney 9:30am today

Why don't you stick around for the firesale of players Ian, you can have them, the public is fed up with both them and the game.
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Posted by: Mekeni of Tathra 9:12am today

At least he is attending the Centenary Test...thats one more through the gates!
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Posted by: Danny of Carlingford 8:14am today

We at the Dragons have nothing to fear from this Bloke - they're trying to hand one of ours back !
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Posted by: Steve McBride of Cranbourne East 4:45am today
Read all 11 comments

 

[Brycey]

Its rather debatable whether or not there are more quality players in the ESL, but they by far have a better product than we do. Its like an early 90's product over there, very expansive game. Much more entertaining.

 

[juneauquan]

Its rather debatable whether or not there are more quality players in the ESL, but they by far have a better product than we do. Its like an early 90's product over there, very expansive game. Much more entertaining.

Anyone see that game last week between St Helens and Warrington. What a great game! Great attacking football and a spine-tingling atmosphere created an awesome contest. Is it any wonder the ESL is growing at a huge rate in popularity.

 

[juneauquan]

THIS is the man who arrived in Australia yesterday ready to plunder Australia's Test side and pinch our NRL stars.
He is Ian Lenagan, chief executive of English Super League giants Wigan and the man with the biggest chequebook in the game.
Lenagan will hold talks today with Parramatta hooker Mark Riddell before attending tomorrow night's Centenary Test match against the Kiwis at the SCG.
Two Test players he is expected to target are forwards Carl Webb and Ryan Hoffman. Lenagan told The Daily Telegraph last night he was searching for a centre and five-eighth along with any forward, particularly a hooker.
"We are looking at key areas,'' he said, "I will be going to the Test. Anybody playing for Australia, one has to contemplate. It will be interesting to watch Australia in a block. There is a shortage (at Wigan) and we are always looking for good players.
"It will be much better seeing them (the players) live. We do a lot of research and it will be the chance to pre-meet players and see if they match us from a character point of view.
"We will be watching players from both sides (in the Test) but I don't want to name any individual targets. It is too early for that.''
Webb's manager Sam Ayoub confirmed last night his client would be interested in any approach from Wigan, who are ready to release former Test five-eighth Trent Barrett from the final year of his contract in 2009.
"Carl will certainly consider any offer from Wigan if the deal is right,'' Ayoub said. "His preference would be to stay here for another two to three years but he is also more than happy to consider any offer worth his while.''
Storm chief executive Brian Waldron is hoping to extend Hoffman's contract, which expires after 2009, to prevent any move to Lancashire.
Waldron had to watch last year as cashed-up Warrington pinched centre Matt King in the prime of his career.
"Our intention is to ensure Ryan remains here for a long time,'' Waldron said. "It's too early in his career for Ryan to go anywhere.''
________________________________________________________________________

Wigan poacher ... the man with the biggest chequebook in rugby league, Wigan boss Ian Lenegan will target tomorrow night's Test match in his chase for Australia's richest talent. Photograph: Mark Evans / The Daily Telegraph

________________________________________________________________________
<DIV class="group instory-dropzones">

I have no problem with him/them doing this.

Just look at the English Premier League, or Spanish and Italian leagues. Look at the NBA, NHL or MLB in USA.

What do all those comps have in common??

This raises an interesting question: If ESL can succesfully recruit major Australian talent over the next ten years or so, does it become the better standard of competition between itself and NRL?

 

[Brycey]

I think it is getting awfully close. And if they can pinch the cream of the NRL, they'll have some of the best talent from the 4 major RL playing countries in the world.

 

[Billigan]

I know this has been discussed to death, but with Kimmorley / Ross all of a sudden being approached by "scouts" from the UK, it just firms up with me what a backwater, useless, pathetic competition they run over there. It also re-instates why they will always be an International Rugby League whimp.

Seriously, instead of spending heaps of $$$ flying to Australia, and pilferring all our decent players like a scab that won't tear from the skin, how about investing in some British youth, and developing THEM to improve their countries League talent?

They are so intent in garnishing any Australian player pool offal, they forget to manage their own backyards. With the Aust. dollar on the improve, I would love one day for it not to be viable for our players to retire over there.

Their piss weak competition would then crumble, as the flow of Australian talent has sustained their pitiful existence for the past decade. The reason for this? They spend more bludging from us, than they do developing their own children, and for that, and I repeat, it is probably the most embarrassing competition in the world over there.:crazy:

i agree

they should piss off and stop buying our players

 

[Ryan]

UK's a better product than Australia's? Bullcrap.

We produce more talent (with a smaller population pool);
We produce better rep games (State of Origin);
We produce better representative players;
Our average joe's here, dominate the ESL;
Players go there for a superannuation policy;
Players don't go there for the challenge, they go there for the $$$.

etc etc etc...

It's a poop product. Thank Christ Australia saw the light and abolished the Super League here.

 

[Brycey]

UK's a better product than Australia's? Bullcrap.

We produce more talent (with a smaller population pool);
We produce better rep games (State of Origin);
We produce better representative players;
Our average joe's here, dominate the ESL;
Players go there for a superannuation policy;
Players don't go there for the challenge, they go there for the $$$.

etc etc etc...

It's a poop product. Thank Christ Australia saw the light and abolished the Super League here.

Can you read? Actually do you have problems with your vision, seems like you don't watch the ESL.

Nobody is debating that there are better players over here. What we are saying is that the product they have...the way they play the game over there is a lot better than how it is over here.

The rules of rugby league in the NRL have been compromised to reflect our organisation for what it really is...run by lawyers...its a liability-scared run game now and our rules reflect that.

The game over there is much more open and expansive, the game in the NRL right now is dominated by ruck performances and 1-out runs or runs from dummy half. Its nowhere near as exciting as the ESL.

 

[Ryan]

Brycey - You have your opinion dude - I have mine mate.
The Australian game in my opinion is much more technical. Whilst I believe it is fast and exciting, it is very much like a game of chess. The players are more skilled, the players are smarter (footballing wise), and the specific individual performance key indicators are governed and stress tested in a lot more detail.
The UK game in my opinion is more "open and free" as you say it because it is like watching a game of Premier League or NYC football over here (and why Premier League & NYC has higher points scored overall). The players in the UK just aren't under the same individual scrutiny and pressure the guys are over here.
I'd MUCH rather watch a game like a field goal game, with minimal points scored like the 2006 game @ Brooky with Melbourne vs. Manly (Orford scored the field goal winner), than a St Helens 56, Castleford 28 open free flowing game.
How would you feel as a fan, if say Minichello, Pearce & say Mason all stated after the International match that they were heading to the UK, because they will be getting twice as much $$$. As a fan - I'd be pretty disappointed.
Hey, I support Manly, but would feel pretty disappointed for Storm fans if Hoffman has to go. He's part of their culture and lifeblood.
This slob comes up with big $$$, and detracts from that.

So no, I'm not blind. I'd much rather watch any game of NRL, before I watched a game of ESL.

 

[juneauquan]

Brycey - You have your opinion dude - I have mine mate.
The Australian game in my opinion is much more technical. Whilst I believe it is fast and exciting, it is very much like a game of chess. The players are more skilled, the players are smarter (footballing wise), and the specific individual performance key indicators are governed and stress tested in a lot more detail.
The UK game in my opinion is more "open and free" as you say it because it is like watching a game of Premier League or NYC football over here (and why Premier League & NYC has higher points scored overall). The players in the UK just aren't under the same individual scrutiny and pressure the guys are over here.
I'd MUCH rather watch a game like a field goal game, with minimal points scored like the 2006 game @ Brooky with Melbourne vs. Manly (Orford scored the field goal winner), than a St Helens 56, Castleford 28 open free flowing game.
How would you feel as a fan, if say Minichello, Pearce & say Mason all stated after the International match that they were heading to the UK, because they will be getting twice as much $$$. As a fan - I'd be pretty disappointed.
Hey, I support Manly, but would feel pretty disappointed for Storm fans if Hoffman has to go. He's part of their culture and lifeblood.
This slob comes up with big $$$, and detracts from that.

So no, I'm not blind. I'd much rather watch any game of NRL, before I watched a game of ESL.

So you believe that all professional athletes the world over should stay in their home country and NEVER play sport in a foreign competition.

So what about all the Australian soccer players in England, Germany, Holland etc?

What about all the Australian baseball players in the MLB?

What about Andrew Bogut in the NBA? Or the Australian basketball players playing in the colleges over there?

What about that scientist/teacher/doctor down the road who got a better offer from an overseas company?

In essence what you saying is that all types of immigration should be stopped.