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The forgotten team

ak47

Juniors
Messages
613
Wouldn’t the brumbies share similar facilities to the raiders – thus deeming the article contradicting itself with regards to corporate backing and improving facilities

Most of the brumbies live in Sydney,

Signing a big name to get the crop down here is 1 issue we can address, but its uphill with regards to the location, and same pay compared to other clubs with a more viable climate.

Which is why we need to tap into the country kids, and why we have retained the Tongue, Graham, TLL (Tamworth fellas)…and maybe Carney as he wishes to remain a local boy.

The Flanagan news is another country boy.

It seems unless we grab all the good from the bush……we will always be who we are, unless we get a mastermind coach, who can turn kids into champions.

I feel Henry is the man for that job….he is praised everywhere in coaching circles, especially in the QLD camp.

Hopefully Daley coming back to the fray, and Mal plucking some kids for QLD will only help our profile to lure talent, that would have once thought – “Canberra, your kidding me, I aint going to live there”
 

Bay56

First Grade
Messages
5,464
The article is a fair and reaonable assessment of the Raiders plight in recent seasons ... heck it could easily have been written by me.

The BIG name signing is one point that I have repeated on a number of occasions.

"For the Raiders to truly become a force, it will take some creative back office plays to start really building for the future." ... that has also been one of my concerns ... do we have the guys that can make the deal or even recognise there is a deal to be made.

This season will reveal a lot and I would expect all supporters to voice their opinons either way.
 

dubby

Bench
Messages
3,005
Another ignorant report from a bloke who has probably lived his whole life in Bondi or Parramatta.

Honestly, what a pile of trash.

I do think his point on creative back office plays held some merit.
 

Raider_69

Post Whore
Messages
61,174
Bay56 said:
heck it could easily have been written by me.

Funny you should mention that, as its been widely critised by fans as a poorly researched article, and complete sydney sider dribble... which is sort of what i tend to think you post these days

up-grade facilities? What like the AIS? you know, the best facilities in the country (which are at our disposal

Talentless roster? Tell that to Carney, Zillman, Tongue, Graham, TLL, Monaghan and Costigan

Dwindling crowds? From memory we were one of few clubs to register an increase in crowd attendence from 2006 to 2007, and thats not taking into consideration the 2006 last home game, which got 22k, statistically an outlier due to the retiring Croker, Schifcofske and Woolford (amongst others)

And thats not taking into consideration we're averaging about 13k, drawing from a region which has around 350 000, whilst a club like Brisbane draws 30k from close to a million. Then there is sydney clubs, who have the advantage of not only a much higher population to draw from, but 90% of their home games are against other sydney teams, making it easier to attract away supporters... and still they only average 2-3k more then us.

And in case you're not aware, corperate sponsorship is as high as its been for years. So clearly the boys in the head office are selling us well to the local business's.

All in all, a very poorly researched article by a no name jurno who probably wouldnt know sh*t from clay. And true to form, Bay 56 see's a chance to stick the boot into management, and takes it... stock standard from both jurno and bay 56


The only comment he made correctly was the remark about rebuilding, he is spot on, we've been rebuilding since Loz retired, 08-09 is are the years to stop rebuilding and become a force, with the talent we have now (provided we keep it) and the coach, im confident we'll do so. And we'll do so without the need for a Russell Crowe
 

The Horse

Juniors
Messages
37
Now thats a good article agree with everything you said Raider 69. Obviously the key is to keep the carney's and zillman's and build the future around them. The reference to the facilities tells you that this guy knows nothing about the Great Canberra Raiders.
 

ak47

Juniors
Messages
613
IMO he is talking about the location, moreso than anything else

Not the facilities, not the talent…that was just a spin to the unknown, as we all know we have the facilities, and we have a good crop of young

He is talking about the difficulties of luring big name players, or we just dwell in mediocracy with the ‘in betweens’ until we turn them into champions by way of coaching
 

reptar

Juniors
Messages
911
Raider_69 said:
And thats not taking into consideration we're averaging about 13k, drawing from a region which has around 350 000, whilst a club like Brisbane draws 30k from close to a million. Then there is sydney clubs, who have the advantage of not only a much higher population to draw from, but 90% of their home games are against other sydney teams, making it easier to attract away supporters... and still they only average 2-3k more then us.

The only thing you have wrong actually increases your argument. Brisbane is far closer to two million than one.

Hello from Brisbane everyone, by the way :)
 

matt

Juniors
Messages
1,114
hmmm ,typical argument from the lefties.....although i did have a pleasant dream last night......to the left side faction i know it hurts , to the right side faction let the questioning continue,and maybe just maybe we will get this sh*t sorted.
 

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,692
Put simply, with every season that goes by the Canberra Raiders seem to slip more into the oblivion. It’s a shame that such a once powerful club is struggling as the likes of new teams such as the Titans spring up quickly and become a force in a matter of months. If the Raiders don’t start thinking big soon, the only horse left in the town might be a Brumby.

What trash. Didn't we thrash the Titans by 50? It astounds me how ignorant the general sydney media are of this club. The commentators don't know players names, the journos think we play on some scrubby oval in the middle of nowhere. They think our players are a bunch of semi-professional tradesman plucked off the street, and Matt Elliot was the greatest genius coach of all-time for taking us to 8th place umpteen times.
 

Bay56

First Grade
Messages
5,464
I find it amazing how one particular person on this forum can recite 'facts' which either are incorrect or can not be substantiated ... all in the mode of suggesting that management have/are doing a great job of running this club.

In the past I have been a champion for attendance at Bruce by noting that per capita we support our team far better than most other centres in Australia, and especially so when you consider our harsh environment in the middle of winter. But the facts are that our crowds have dwindled and therefore the author of that artilce is not so much dribbling as stating the obvious. We peaked in 1994 with about 17.5K and with the enthusiasm still there dropped to 15.7K in 1995. But 2007 saw only 11.5K (and that is with dwindling numbers at the Brumbies). We hit the bottom in 2001 with 9.8K and have averaged about 11K since 1995. Facts NOT opinion.

I would love to see these stats about increased corporate sponsorship, which quite frankly I have not seen published anywhere ... what percentage increase are we talking about here, how do we compare with say South Sydney or Manly who quit frankly seem to be leading the charge and should be the benchmark we compare ourselves against. Or does our so called expert in these matters want a comparision with those that have gone the other way in recent times.

The facts are that we have been failures in the past decade .. it is recognised by the media and therefore we are branded with the wooden spoon favourites each season. And until the people who run this club recognise that talent isnt a given by birth we may be on the way to the success that this club deserves.

Season 2008 will imo reveal whether we are on that path ... I for one will be very interested to see the improvement that we have been promised ... anything short of that will only further galvanise my opinion.
 

Bay56

First Grade
Messages
5,464
Walt Flanigan said:
Just about every point this turd makes is incorrect.

Absolute rubbish.

Which particular points has he made that are total absolute rubbish, ie non-factual or based on an opinion that is so far off track that you'd need more than a landrover to recover.
 

Raider_69

Post Whore
Messages
61,174
You've addressed on issue i raised... thats a record for you bay, usually you duck and weave the issues... glad i could get you to comment on one at least...

http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/canberra.html

2006 Average: 137,870(total fans)/12 (home games) = 11,489

Now lets take out the statistical outlier to gain a more accurate average(anyone who's done year 8 maths will know what im talking about), our last home game which attracted 21, 255 fans. So:
137, 870 - 21, 255 = 116615

Hence: 11 home games for a total of 116, 615 fans for an average of 10, 601 fans per game

2007 Average: 138,144 (total fans)/ 12(home games) = 11,512

Important to note: no statistical outliers in this season, all within a very specific range.

Conclusion: Our crowds were at their peak when we were successful on the field and had house hold names like Daley, Stuart, Clyde, Walters, Furner... as success and the name players dropped off so too did the crowds. This is proven by the fact our best year since, crowd wise was 2003, coincidental our most successful year in recent time.

Since then there was a steady decline, with only the year 2005 able to top its previous year's tally, and of course 2007 which also topped it's previous year's tally. So by my reckoning, our crowds, contrary to popular belief, are currently on an incline slope (albeit minor)
 

Bay56

First Grade
Messages
5,464
What one can do with statistics is statistically incalulable.

1994 = 17.K as a result of success on the footy field.

2007 = 11.5 as a result of a sustained lack of success on the footy field.

Cold hard facts that the author of the article has highlighted along with a number of other truths that a few on this forum have classified as rubbish and not worth the read.

Anyone who can dispute the F.A.C.T that we have been an unsuccesful club must be bathing in a dreamworld where in the past decade we have either won the premiership or have been a definite threat to do so. The F.A.C.T.S indicate that, other than maybe one season, we've only fallen/tripped into the finals and have been cannon fodder thereafter.

I've gone through each paragraph of the author's article and quite frankly can not find any instance worth noting that could be classified as "rubbish". The sentiment expressed by the author is that we are guilty of the crime and I for one endorse his suggestions noted in the 2nd last paragraph.
 

Christmas Ape

Juniors
Messages
277
It's an awful piece of journalism, Bay56.

Lets take a look -


The Forgotten NRL Team: Canberra Raiders
January 25, 2008

It’s amost like Groundhog day every single year for the Canberra Raiders; limited playing talent and predictions they will collect the spoon before the NRL season starts. It’s easy to forget their previous glory days and just as easy to forget they were home to household names such as Ricky Stuart, Laurie Daley, Mal Meninga and a whole host of others.

How is it easy to forget the glory days? Ask 100 league fans who the greatest team of the 80s/90s was. I guarantee 80 of them will name the 89-94 Canberra Raiders, regardless of bias. Similarly, I'll bet 100% of them know exactly who Stuart, Daley and Meninga played for.
It's the weakest opening paragraph of all time. There's even a spelling mistake in the first line.


Some how the team they used to call the Green Machine became known as the Washing Machine, as they started getting beaten regularly and hung out to dry by opposition teams. Occasionally performing out of their skin, the Raiders through the likes of Simon Woolford, Ruben Wiki and Adam Mogg in recent times have had some impressive performances but it seems the Raiders supporters cannot expect any premierships in the short term future. In 2008, the same is expected of the Canberra Raiders - the odd good performance, followed by another season of just ‘competing’ with the big guns. While to their credit, they are rarely if ever ‘flogged’ - you simply can’t expect to continue to exist in today’s environment with consistently mediocre results.

Who the f**k calls us "the Washing Machine"? Is that a joke? Very funny.
Why can't we expect a premiership in the short term? Did this idiot turn the telly off during '03 and '05? If the Panthers and Tigers can take the title with those playing rosters then I think we have every right to expect success.
Did he watch season '07? I recall us getting "flogged" on numerous occasions. I also remember every other team bar Melbourne getting flogged too. What's his point?


Still producing some good young talent, the Raiders do possess some great players on their roster for 2008 - the likes of Todd Carney, Adrian Purtell and the hard working Alan Tounge - but on the back of dwindling crowd figures, rare off-season purchases and low confidence, it rarely seems as if the Raiders will become a consistent week to week powerhouse club.

Hang on. Didn't he say earlier that the Raiders have "limited playing talent"? Now all of a sudden we've got "some great players". However, I wouldn't classify Purtell as great.
Granted, crowd figures are down on 1994. Is there any club that has increased their average in the last decade? I think crowd figures are more a symptom of the game itself, not the Raiders.
I think we've bought well in the last couple of years, given our position in the market. But that's a whole other argument.
I'm not going to bother with the last bit of this paragraph. I can't get my head around his use of "rarely seems".


In modern day NRL, the salary cap ensures that all teams will suffer a ‘rebuilding phase’ at some stage, but surely the Raiders cannot remain in this mode permanently?

This bit's true. We are rebuilding. Just like every other team in the comp except Melbourne who seem to be able to keep the same team every year.


Ok so it might not be the most enticing spot in Australia to reside, but Canberra has the unique advantage of a graveyard style home stadium. Opposition teams always fear the cold, unwelcoming track at Bruce Stadium and the road trip to Canberra should be seen as a huge plus for the men in Green. Also on their side, the fact that they can tap into a large supporter base - the capital of Australia and a hometown craving winnings, the ingredients are there for success if the club wants to take hold of them.

This is the most lucid part of the article. I agree with everything here except "craving winnings". That doesn't make sense.
Oh, and Canberra's a great place to live. f**k him if he doesn't think it's "enticing".


For the Raiders to truly become a force, it will take some creative back office plays to start really building for the future.

True. I think management are well on the way.


Just like Souths have done, chase the corporate backing first and start improving current facilities to entice the top tier of players into your corner.

This doesn't even deserve rebuttal.


It takes some smart planning to get the snowball effect happening, if players won’t jump on board then maybe the Raiders should look at signing a big name coach in the future; one that will attract the big name NRL stars like bees to a honeypot.

Hmmm... maybe someone like the assistant QLD origin coach?


That is no reflection on Neil Henry, the impressive up and coming coach has seemingly done a wonderful job with what he has had to work with.

Yeah, it must be terrible coaching a Washing Machine with sub-standard facilities and limited playing talent.

Put simply, with every season that goes by the Canberra Raiders seem to slip more into the oblivion.

I disagree.


It’s a shame that such a once powerful club is struggling as the likes of new teams such as the Titans spring up quickly and become a force in a matter of months
.

It's also a shame that this bloke thinks the Titans are a force. It just serves to reinforce my opinion that he's got no idea.


If the Raiders don’t start thinking big soon, the only horse left in the town might be a Brumby.

And right on cue, he finishes with a Brumbies reference. Typical.
 

green eyed mike

Juniors
Messages
166
However you look at it we are long overdues for some success on the field. Over the past decade we have consistently developed young talent only to lose it to other clubs. This has strung out the 'rebuilding phase' for far too long.

Personally I think the raiders are on the right track. They are concentrating on keeping this team together and I think Henry has the ability to make this team into something special. Success breeds success and if this roster can fire they could be contenders this year.
 

Bay56

First Grade
Messages
5,464
Geez Christmas Ape you've been a bit nit-picking on the author.

The crux of the article is that we were once a very proud successful club and now we are a not so proud unsuccessful club.

If you want to dissect every word the guy says and pass it through a wring dryer do so but the facts indicate his sentiments are correct.

He finishes off by saying that work is needed in the front office to rectify the situation and again he is spot on.
 

(KW)

Juniors
Messages
274
I am struggling to comprehend why we are even discussing this article. It was written by an obviously biased wannabe journo who has actually done himself a disservice by posting that article on the net. It shows him to be an ignorant twat. Considering his site is a dedicated NRL site, (with limited hits it seems), this dinghus has made himself look very silly, very un-informed, and un-educated on the subject matter.

No doubt the tele will snap him up pronto.

FFS

KW
 

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