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The "Hagan must go" petition thread

antonius

Coach
Messages
10,104
My problem with Hages is team selection, and tatics (We don't have any) Our defence around the ruck in the Parra game was pathetic, our attack has nothing, one out stuff, and a dribble kick at the end of the six if we still have the ball. That's all, down to Hagan.
 

knights_maniac

Juniors
Messages
248
Alex28 said:
Hagan is trying to do himself what 4 or 5 people do at other clubs - like i said, give him the right resources and then see how he goes.
ithink hagan has had enough resources pervious to 2005 to have done a better job than he has....
 

Voice of Reason

Juniors
Messages
359
If you stick to the rational argument and aviod the blame game, the answer is clear.
WE ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH- The Knights have way too many sub-standard players, some of whom are o way too much money. I cannot blame the players. If you entered your Datsun 120Y in a drag race with a Top Fueller, you would be made to look a fool. Yes we have extraordinary injuries, some of which I believe could have been avoided. Yes we had players on Rep duty. The bottom line is that we have insufficient money so we have inept management, players and poor amenaties. We have a litiny of bad decisions- why- we have the wrong people making those decisions. I place the responsibility squarely on the shoulders of senior management. I am saying they are RESPONSIBLE not using them as a scapegoat. Until the business model, finance model and management personel change, the Knights will continue to slide. I have no reason for optimism based on the accurate information that I have. The Parra abomination last night will be a benchmark for 2006/2007 sorry to say. Get used to it because thats our fare until things change
 

ArturiusX

Juniors
Messages
206
I fail to see how throwing more money at a bad coaching program will solve anything.

Having extra trainers isn't going to help guys like Perry. Perry's been groomed for a while now by some former foward greats, and the guys played 99 first grade games. The knights already have 3 first grade trainers, one head trainer, I don't see how throwing some more out there is going to help anyone?

Shocking conditions and pressure? This is professional sport. You perform or get out. This is why we lag behind, because our attitude is to willy nilly. We make excuses, we aren't ruthless towards our team, and we cling to the hope that one day in the future we'll unearth 10 Andrew John's.

Its not going to happen, our Junior program is going to be cannibalised by Sydney clubs (or already is) unless we start to get our act together. We can't sit here and pretend this is a sunday U/14 match down at the local oval. This is the big leagues, people need to be held accountable for bad performances. Warren Ryan had the same resources, but he still managed to build a formidable team in a short time. Same with O'Reilly. I don't get why we make an exception for Hagan that he doesn't have to answer to his performances.

Bleh.
 

TooheysNew

Coach
Messages
1,109
Not throwing more money at it. Improving it, by putting money and ability into the trainers we have, enabling them to do a better job.

Perry may not be able to be helped, but a guy like Billy Johnston could work wonders with him in actually getting him to look like a first grade footballer. We may have that many trainers, but are they of the quality of other clubs'?

Money will also enable us to pay people with experience in their field - as conditioners, physiotherpaists etc. We are one of the only clubs who does not do this. That is what accounts to our injury problems, and that is part of the reason we fall behind.
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,005
ArturiusX said:
I fail to see how throwing more money at a bad coaching program will solve anything.

Having extra trainers isn't going to help guys like Perry. Perry's been groomed for a while now by some former foward greats, and the guys played 99 first grade games. The knights already have 3 first grade trainers, one head trainer, I don't see how throwing some more out there is going to help anyone?

Shocking conditions and pressure? This is professional sport. You perform or get out. This is why we lag behind, because our attitude is to willy nilly. We make excuses, we aren't ruthless towards our team, and we cling to the hope that one day in the future we'll unearth 10 Andrew John's.

Its not going to happen, our Junior program is going to be cannibalised by Sydney clubs (or already is) unless we start to get our act together. We can't sit here and pretend this is a sunday U/14 match down at the local oval. This is the big leagues, people need to be held accountable for bad performances. Warren Ryan had the same resources, but he still managed to build a formidable team in a short time. Same with O'Reilly. I don't get why we make an exception for Hagan that he doesn't have to answer to his performances.

Bleh.

It's not "throwing money at a bad coaching programme" - it is actually creating a coaching programme, like actual backs/forwards/kicking/defensive coaches, rehab & physio and the like. it's giving him a fair go...
 

aqua_duck

Coach
Messages
18,629
Look at his from a real estate angle Hagan is a man who's been asked to build a $500million tower with a $10million budget, but even considering the $10miilion budget he's done a terrible job, used all the wrong materials, hired all the wrong builders and now the tower is only 1/4 finished and is about the collapse already.
SImply put it Hagan has done a shocking job even if you consider what he's got to work with (bugger all). The bulldogs train in a gym thats old and not air conditioned, they choose to do so because it toughens up the players. The fitness elevl of the players is worse than any other team in probably 4-5 years. Ineffective players are put in the team everyweek, Luke Quigley for example, he's a hooker and nothing else, why is he on the bench when we got the best hooker in the world starting and who happens to be an 80minute player? Why is Carmont an automatic selestion everyweek despite being the worst defender in the NRL. Going back to defence, why do none of the backs know how to make simple one on one tackles? Why did the football team thrown 220k a year at a bench forward from melbourne who has reached his potential just to get into 1st grade when they could've thrown that money at a bronco's junior who is known to be immensely talented and played orgin at 21 years of age, who was in the same position as his melbourne counter part but got there not having reached 1/4 of his potential?
Why did the football program sign a one series origin wonder to a 240k contract knowing that he was nothing more than a good solid footballer who had limited upside?
The mistakes are obvious, the board and Ceo have been terrible but Hages hasn't exactly done a great job either.
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,005
aqua_duck said:
The bulldogs train in a gym thats old and not air conditioned, they choose to do so because it toughens up the players. The fitness elevl of the players is worse than any other team in probably 4-5 years.

Yeah...do you think the Bulldogs have toilets that work properly? Check todays Sun-Herald - we don't even have that...I think you'll also find that the Bulldogs have plenty of support staff as well.
 

Razor

Coach
Messages
10,077
Shocking conditions and pressure? This is professional sport. You perform or get out. This is why we lag behind, because our attitude is to willy nilly. We make excuses, we aren't ruthless towards our team

What started the teams downslide was mid-2000 when Warren Ryan wanted to make wholesale changes to the team, and the players whinged. The board sided with the players. You don't want that. The coach should not be good friends with the players. The board sucking up to the players like they did in 2000, and probably since then as well, creates a care-free nature amongst the players knowing they can get away with lucklustre effort at training and on field.

The board should appoint the coach and give him 100% control. Let him make any changes he wants. If a player comes to the board to complain say to him "He's the boss".
 

ArturiusX

Juniors
Messages
206
I 100% agree Razor.

Perhaps you people misunderstand why you hire underlings like kicking coaches etc. They may improve little parts of the game, but if the overall team is bad, they ain't going to transform them. They ultimately answer to the coach, so what's the point?
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,005
perhaps you misunderstand that "defence" and "attack" are not "little parts of the game" - most clubs have 2 defensive coaches. we have none.

co-incidence?
 

TooheysNew

Coach
Messages
1,109
Perhaps you also misunderstand that the reason clubs hire these 'underlings' is because they are specialized in what they do. You don't hire a defensive coach for the sake of it. You hire one to improve your defence.

These underlings also take pressure off hagan - and for the most part work with him, not answer to him.
 

Doctor

Bench
Messages
3,612
ArturiusX said:
Warren Ryan had the same resources, but he still managed to build a formidable team in a short time. Same with O'Reilly. I don't get why we make an exception for Hagan that he doesn't have to answer to his performances.

Simple: the bar has been raised, and we're just not up to scratch. In the 1997-2000, I dare say that most clubs wouldn't have had the facilities they do now. But things have progressed, and we haven't been able to keep up.

It's no surprise that when the Broncos hired a full time physio, their injury toll drastically decreased. Only one player was missing through injury from their team against the Knights last week.
 

antonius

Coach
Messages
10,104
Knights v Parra. Missed tackles 47 I think we could do with a defensive coach.

Knights v Parra Line Breaks 0 I think we could do with an offence coach.

Knights v Parra Score 50-0 I think we could do with a coach.
 

Red Bear

Referee
Messages
20,882
Was David Fairleigh in the side that actually won the comp or was he in the side when Warren Ryan was coach?
 

roopy

Referee
Messages
27,980
GoTheBears said:
Was David Fairleigh in the side that actually won the comp or was he in the side when Warren Ryan was coach?
Fairleigh played for one year in 2000. Most Knights fans think that was our best side ever - mostly because Fairleigh and Shiels were better than the guys who replaced them for 2001.
 

RABK

Referee
Messages
20,694
roopy said:
Fairleigh played for one year in 2000. Most Knights fans think that was our best side ever - mostly because Fairleigh and Shiels were better than the guys who replaced them for 2001.

They didn't get the job done like our blokes in 2001 did.
 

Doctor

Bench
Messages
3,612
roopy said:
Fairleigh played for one year in 2000. Most Knights fans think that was our best side ever - mostly because Fairleigh and Shiels were better than the guys who replaced them for 2001.

That was our best side ever, at least on paper. But we got rolled by the Roosters (no surprises there) in the finals series. In 2001 we had lost some of ther bigger blokes from the pack, and many said we didn't have the forwards to win the competition. The likes of Parsons, Perry, Greif, Marquet, Peden, Simpson etc -- they proved that theory wrong.

Hasn't Perry gone downhill though. Hasn't the whole team gone downhill, for that matter. Such a shame.
 

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