The lack of playing depth

[aquiin]

Herbert didn’t do anything spectacular in the centres, not sure why he keeps getting mentioned. He was a good junior centre then had some big games at fullback in ISP, therefore should be a starting centre in first grade? Not a great criteria.

NSW decided to stick Matheson Johns in the centres whenever Lomax was injured, didn’t work out well. Solid player but Marsters seen as more likely to progress.

The reality is the whole competition is down on depth, therefore a few players come through at the same time and someone will see opportunity elsewhere or be told that there is opportunity elsewhere. At least we are trying to pick who we think will come through in the next couple of years. In 2009-2010 we tried to play hardball and lost virtually all our backs outside first grade.

Also there is no doubt that while our 1-5 was outstanding in 2010, this team has been built looking more towards the forwards and halves. Partly because Lomax etc are just starting to emerge. That’s what the salary cap looks like at most clubs.

Personally one of the most exciting things will be to see Frizell, De Belin, T Sims, Vaughn, K Sims play together. Not sure there’s a better combination in attack and defence in the competition.

 

[Dorothy the Winowhore]

Both Aitken and Lafai are much better centres than Patrick Herbert. And they are both 1st grade standard. Herbert is not, and may very well never be. Time to change that scratched record, possm.

 

[Warabrook saint]

As soon as one weirdo has a rest another steps up

 

[Belta]

It’s been a tough gig for talented junior backs. In recent years In front of they have faced the scintillatingly consistent form of our outside backs (cough, cough) allowing no changes to a cut and paste backline that’s been the envy of other clubs unfortunately this epic run of form has resulted in not very few talented juniors getting a look in.

Compare this to say the Roosters, why who can’t forget when thier plodder (some Latrell or something) was playing crap and sent back to ISP. I tell ya some coaches have got no idea.

 

[possm]

Herbert didn’t do anything spectacular in the centres, not sure why he keeps getting mentioned. He was a good junior centre then had some big games at fullback in ISP, therefore should be a starting centre in first grade? Not a great criteria.

NSW decided to stick Matheson Johns in the centres whenever Lomax was injured, didn’t work out well. Solid player but Marsters seen as more likely to progress.

The reality is the whole competition is down on depth, therefore a few players come through at the same time and someone will see opportunity elsewhere or be told that there is opportunity elsewhere. At least we are trying to pick who we think will come through in the next couple of years. In 2009-2010 we tried to play hardball and lost virtually all our backs outside first grade.

Also there is no doubt that while our 1-5 was outstanding in 2010, this team has been built looking more towards the forwards and halves. Partly because Lomax etc are just starting to emerge. That’s what the salary cap looks like at most clubs.

Personally one of the most exciting things will be to see Frizell, De Belin, T Sims, Vaughn, K Sims play together. Not sure there’s a better combination in attack and defence in the competition.

Lomax and Herbert were selected '2018 ISP centres of the year'. I always had Lomax ahead of Herbert however, I also rated Herbert very highly. In my mind, he would be the ideal player to replace Lafai and given that Lafai still has two years to go on his contract, a contest for that left centre position between Lafai and Herbert would have been the ideal way to keep both players in form and on their toes.

 

[aquiin]

Herbert was in the team. I doubt it had anything to do with him playing centre.

Lomax was not in the team. Half Adam Keighran was the other centre. Now a Warrior.

 

[Dorothy the Winowhore]

So.....we should've ignored Herbert saying he and his family wanted to move back home to NZ?

 

[Como Connection]

So.....we should've ignored Herbert saying he and his family wanted to move back home to NZ?

Has he signed for them or not.
Reports here appear to say he has not.
I don't know.
CC

 

[aquiin]

Herbert is still expected to go there but has plenty of work to do to figure in first grade calculations.

To me it looks like there are trying to improve their ISP and see if they can develop new players like Herbert, Burr and Keighran.

 

[redandwhite4evr]

With Mann on the way to Newcastle, we look very weak in outside backs, we have lost from the top of my head, Matheson Johns, Garrick, Herbert, Nightingale, Nene and looks like Mann, the last 3 had heaps of experience and the first 3 are all big solid players that added depth and most could play 2 positions minimum, we really need some outside back signings, i think we have 3 spots left, not sure if there is quality out there for us to sign...

I'm not a great fan of Millward's recruitment to date, particularly the decision to retain both Latimore and Allgood who are similar, average bench players. Admittedly Latimore played the best football I"ve seen from him in years last year but at his age, expecting him to keep this up is probably unrealistic. With Graham now more a spiritual leader than a tearaway prop in the Burgess Bros mould, we lack bench impact.

However, the backs recruitment has been little short of abysmal. Even after Hayne was linked to a second sexual assault charge and before he was actually arrested, SGI were quoted as still maintaining interest in him. Just a pathetic lack of judgement-and hypocrisy- particularly after their pious moralising when it came to getting rid of a very young and promising Addin Fonua- Blake from the NYC team some years ago. As far as I know AFB has not reoffended since that indiscretion and has been a very good buy for Manly.

The only ray of hope is that with the coaching musical chairs still ongoing and some players (such as Smith) still unsigned, there may be further player movement down the track. However, Cronulla are probably going to be competing with us for that elusive, quality centre /winger/fullback now that Holmes is on the move. Millward is playing a dangerous waiting game where he may end up a hero-more likely a zero.

 

[True_Believer]

I'm not a great fan of Millward's recruitment to date, particularly the decision to retain both Latimore and Allgood who are similar, average bench players. Admittedly Latimore played the best football I"ve seen from him in years last year but at his age, expecting him to keep this up is probably unrealistic. With Graham now more a spiritual leader than a tearaway prop in the Burgess Bros mould, we lack bench impact.

However, the backs recruitment has been little short of abysmal. Even after Hayne was linked to a second sexual assault charge and before he was actually arrested, SGI were quoted as still maintaining interest in him. Just a pathetic lack of judgement-and hypocrisy- particularly after their pious moralising when it came to getting rid of a very young and promising Addin Fonua- Blake from the NYC team some years ago. As far as I know AFB has not reoffended since that indiscretion and has been a very good buy for Manly.

The only ray of hope is that with the coaching musical chairs still ongoing and some players (such as Smith) still unsigned, there may be further player movement down the track. However, Cronulla are probably going to be competing with us for that elusive, quality centre /winger/fullback now that Holmes is on the move. Millward is playing a dangerous waiting game where he may end up a hero-more likely a zero.

AFB pleaded guilty while at the club and I support the tough stance they took at the time. Before the current arrest, Haynes US case was kicked out due to lack of evidence and had been reverted to a civil court. At this stage, still not guilty. For the record, I didn't want Hayne at the club because irrespective of the US result, it had the potential to be a circus. However, the AFB and Hayne cases are not the same.

In my opinion, anyone found guilty of beating a woman shouldn't be allowed to play again. It's a gutless act.

 

[redandwhite4evr]

AFB pleaded guilty while at the club and I support the tough stance they took at the time. Before the current arrest, Haynes US case was kicked out due to lack of evidence and had been reverted to a civil court. At this stage, still not guilty. For the record, I didn't want Hayne at the club because irrespective of the US result, it had the potential to be a circus. However, the AFB and Hayne cases are not the same.

In my opinion, anyone found guilty of beating a woman shouldn't be allowed to play again. It's a gutless act.

Agree that it is a gutless act but AFB was 20 - a kid- compared to Hayne who is 30 and who has well documented other baggage (poor attitude to training, personality clashes with past coaches etc). AFB was effectively given a life sentence from SGI but has obviously turned his life around at Manly. Can't see much equity in SGI's attitudes to the respective players.

 

[True_Believer]

Agree that it is a gutless act but AFB was 20 - a kid- compared to Hayne who is 30 and who has well documented other baggage (poor attitude to training, personality clashes with past coaches etc). AFB was effectively given a life sentence from SGI but has obviously turned his life around at Manly. Can't see much equity in SGI's attitudes to the respective players.

In my opinion, age is irrelevant. If found guilty at any stage of assaulting a woman, that should be it from where I stand. I don't believe there is any excuse for that at all.

Hayne does have other baggage and exactly why I didn't want him at the club. But that isn't why you were calling the club hypocritical. I think the difference here is that AFB was found guilty while at the club. The club had to take action. Hayne on the other hand, although not yet found guilty (and having had it thrown out once already) was not part of the club at the time.

I am OK with this approach and I don't think it's hypocritical at all - unless of course he ends up being found guilty. And hence why we should not be continuing negotiations.

 

[hermidale1]

Agree that it is a gutless act but AFB was 20 - a kid- compared to Hayne who is 30 and who has well documented other baggage (poor attitude to training, personality clashes with past coaches etc). AFB was effectively given a life sentence from SGI but has obviously turned his life around at Manly. Can't see much equity in SGI's attitudes to the respective players.

Prior to the Dragons picking up AFB as a junior, he was offloaded by Souths and Parramatta. So the Dragons gave him a lifeline earlier. When he offended at 20, the club obviously didn't want to have that issue. Millward wasn't the man in charge of recruitment then.

 

[Warabrook saint]

OT, I don't think anyone on this forum believes 2-5 are tremendous FG players. Reality is we need TPA's to compete with the top 4 sides.

At present we don't have the financial clout to improve the squad. One would hope if we did we would not have persevered with Aitken, Lafai and co for the past couple of years.

I think they're both highly-rated by the wankers in charge

 

[possm]

AFB pleaded guilty while at the club and I support the tough stance they took at the time. Before the current arrest, Haynes US case was kicked out due to lack of evidence and had been reverted to a civil court. At this stage, still not guilty. For the record, I didn't want Hayne at the club because irrespective of the US result, it had the potential to be a circus. However, the AFB and Hayne cases are not the same.

In my opinion, anyone found guilty of beating a woman shouldn't be allowed to play again. It's a gutless act.

Mary, our fearless leader pleaded guilty to DUI. Not a good example to set for our young players coming through. He got a contract extension as punishment from the Club.

 

[True_Believer]

Mary, our fearless leader pleaded guilty to DUI. Not a good example to set for our young players coming through. He got a contract extension as punishment from the Club.

The discussion was about players and domestic abuse. Mary and his DUI are irrelevant to the conversation and, again, not hypocritical of the club as I am guessing you are trying to insinuate.

 

[redandwhite4evr]

In my opinion, age is irrelevant. If found guilty at any stage of assaulting a woman, that should be it from where I stand. I don't believe there is any excuse for that at all.

Hayne does have other baggage and exactly why I didn't want him at the club. But that isn't why you were calling the club hypocritical. I think the difference here is that AFB was found guilty while at the club. The club had to take action. Hayne on the other hand, although not yet found guilty (and having had it thrown out once already) was not part of the club at the time.

I am OK with this approach and I don't think it's hypocritical at all - unless of course he ends up being found guilty. And hence why we should not be continuing negotiations.

Age is irrelevant! -and presumably no priors as well- wow- my teenage son shows no current signs of breaking any law but if he did, I'd be worried if he appeared before a beak with your mindset TB.

Taking a hard line on DV is all very well but IMO, the issues here are character and judgement. You need to read the 2016 article by the SMH's Daniel Lane on AFB which provided some perspective on the environment in which he grew up. Typical islander kid- man's body, kid's brain - father a violent alcoholic. Turns out I was wrong about his age- he was actually 19 at the time of his offence.

I talk about character because despite his alcohol fuelled assault, he was in a committed relationship with the girl he assaulted and the father of their two children-and guess what- still is. He's owned up to what he did and is now not just reformed but an active role model for young people. AFB's partner thinks he's such a heinous, callous human being that she's taken him back- and they obviously love one another. She saw the good in him when SGI didn't bother to even try. They just acted in a knee jerk fashion and got rid of him- poor judgement.

That's not to say he should not have been punished- of course he should. However, they could have fined him (far more than the $1000 the court did) insist he go thru detox and rehab, put him on probation, insist he undergo DV counselling- any number of things. But to throw him on the scrapheap at 19??

Meanwhile Hayne at age 30 and a high profile member of the Hillsong church ie a hypocrite- is still cruising for one night stands and social media hook ups.

Based on character, I know who I'd rather have at the club. We are a damaging prop short and could have had AFB as a 12-15 year player if we'd shown that better judgement.

 

[Dragonslayer]

It is the lack of playing depth or the lack of depth of the player?

 

[Crush]

It is the lack of playing depth or the lack of depth of the player?

Or is it the depth of the player's lack?