The Latest in Coaching Musical Chairs - NRL Style...

[unforgiven]

Tim Brasher the latest former-Tiger complaining about the injustice of Cleary's move from the Tigers.

Looking at the past Tigers' recent history re tenure of coaches:

• Sheens - sacked over a season early;
• Potter - advised contract not-renewed for 2015 at end of 2014 season (i.e. effectively nil notice period); and
• Taylor - terminated effectively immediately 3 games into 2017.

So last 3 coaches have been removed by Tigers with no notice - and they complain about the next coach looking to secure his future beyond his current contract?

Wow, heads up their own arses much?

Difference is the Tigers met the terms of those contracts even after the coaches failed, all those coaches were paid?

Cleary did not meet the terms of his contract.

 

[unforgiven]

He'd be signing them for the Tigers because that's what his contract says and who's paying his wage or you have someone else handle recruitment. That's how I see that scenario.

But he has already shown that he will put Nathan's career ahead of what is good for the Tigers.

Tigers need a long term stable coach, Ivan said he was this, he brought players to the club that wanted to play for him, some even moved countries to do so. Only for this grub to dog them 12 months later with the assistance of the Panthers.

The best part about this mess is that the Panthers will be paying for 3 coaches next year with arguably the worst coach of the 3 coaching them.

 

[Abacus]

Difference is the Tigers met the terms of those contracts even after the coaches failed, all those coaches were paid?

Cleary did not meet the terms of his contract.

No, terms of contract were they'd be head coaches for the duration. Sheens in particular had to wait until 2014 to finalise his settlement.

Point being zero job security for coaches exhibited by Tigers management and board.

Serious question, in a high-risk profession like coaching, would you not accept a future contract when its offered to you? Yes, it left the Tigers in a tough spot, but its better for the coach than potentially being jobless a few games into 2019.

 

[Valheru]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me what the Panthers (or anyone else for that matter) see in Cleary as a coach besides the fact he has a mildly talented son they want to keep at the club?

Isn't his record something like 1 finals appearance in the last 7 seasons? Even his GF run in 2011 was a fluke on the back of benefiting from a flawed finals system (6th place making a GF after losing by 30 week one).

I can't see this being anything other than a spectacular failure for the Panthers.

Tigers on the other have come up well in front procuring someone who has actually been a success as a coach.

 

[unforgiven]

No, terms of contract were they'd be head coaches for the duration. Sheens in particular had to wait until 2014 to finalise his settlement.

Point being zero job security for coaches exhibited by Tigers management and board.

Serious question, in a high-risk profession like coaching, would you not accept a future contract when its offered to you? Yes, it left the Tigers in a tough spot, but its better for the coach than potentially being jobless a few games into 2019.

Yes Sheens had to wait to be paid out, I think that was wrong of the Tigers, same as I don't like how they treated Farah when they moved him on. I have no issue with how the Potter and Taylor situations were handled, Potter was off contract and Taylor was failing in his role as head coach. Ivan however promised the world to the club, players and supporters and then screwed them so he could coach his son.

The Panthers created a situation where he could no longer continue as head coach of the Tigers.

 

[franklin2323]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me what the Panthers (or anyone else for that matter) see in Cleary as a coach besides the fact he has a mildly talented son they want to keep at the club?

Isn't his record something like 1 finals appearance in the last 7 seasons? Even his GF run in 2011 was a fluke on the back of benefiting from a flawed finals system (6th place making a GF after losing by 30 week one).

I can't see this being anything other than a spectacular failure for the Panthers.

Tigers on the other have come up well in front procuring someone who has actually been a success as a coach.

Apparently he has a son that can play a bit of footy

 

[franklin2323]

Yes Sheens had to wait to be paid out, I think that was wrong of the Tigers, same as I don't like how they treated Farah when they moved him on. I have no issue with how the Potter and Taylor situations were handled, Potter was off contract and Taylor was failing in his role as head coach. Ivan however promised the world to the club, players and supporters and then screwed them so he could coach his son.

The Panthers created a situation where he could no longer continue as head coach of the Tigers.

So why didn't the Tigers extend him when it 1st came out?

Clubs want to complain about loyalty when it suits them

 

[unforgiven]

So why didn't the Tigers extend him when it 1st came out?

Clubs want to complain about loyalty when it suits them

It's quite obvious he didn't want an extension, he asked the Tigers for a release?

 

[MilkShark]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me what the Panthers (or anyone else for that matter) see in Cleary as a coach besides the fact he has a mildly talented son they want to keep at the club?

Well Panthers have found a way to pay Nathan absolutely anything they want without it going to wards the cap, pretty big advantage.

Say they pay him a mill a year, that's 1 mill extra they can spend a year to build their team that no one else can do.

 

[Tiger5150]

Tim Brasher the latest former-Tiger complaining about the injustice of Cleary's move from the Tigers.

Looking at the past Tigers' recent history re tenure of coaches:

• Sheens - sacked over a season early;
• Potter - advised contract not-renewed for 2015 at end of 2014 season (i.e. effectively nil notice period); and
• Taylor - terminated effectively immediately 3 games into 2017.

So last 3 coaches have been removed by Tigers with no notice - and they complain about the next coach looking to secure his future beyond his current contract?

Wow, heads up their own arses much?

You have completely missed the point, but let me help you see it using your own examples:

- Tim Sheens - Sacked due to poor performance (in the opinion of the board) before his contract was finished. HE WAS PAID IN TOTAL the remainder or his contract value so contract was met. Now stay with me here, here is the tricky bit........Tim Sheens was replaced by Mick Potter, who was not under contract to anyone else and was not induced to break a binding contract.

Mick Potter - Served out his contract. Not sacked. Not renewed. He was told during the season which is effectively months notice. Not sure what else Tigers were supposed to do. How many coaches actually get to the end of there contract these days? OK, now here is something you may recognise from earlier.....Mick Potter was replaced by Jason Taylor (unforunately) , who was not under contract to anyone else and was not induced to break a binding contract.

- Jason Taylor - Sacked due to poor performance before his contract was finished (in his final year). Unfortunately Faalogo was unavailable to break the news to him. HE WAS PAID IN TOTAL the remainder or his contract value so contract was met. What happened next?.......Jason Taylor was replaced by Ivan Cleary, who was not under contract to anyone else and was not induced to break a binding contract.

The Tigers have been put in an unfortunate situation again where they need to replace a coach and where did they look? They employed someone who was not under contract to anyone else. By all reports Maguire was the Tigers second choice, because the guy that they wanted was still under contract to another club and the Tigers wouldnt try to induce him to break his contract with someone else.

Are you beginning to see the point? You seem to be trying to use examples of Tigers sacking two coaches as justification for the Panthers behaviour. I spent most of my adult lifetime writing Contracts. A contract is an agreement between TWO parties. it is agreement that they will each do something in consideration for the other (work and get paid). If and when one of those parties can not carry out their side of the agreement, its called frustration and both sides of the contract still have to play their part which is why in the two cases at the Tigers, Sheens & Taylor got paid out.

In the case of the Panthers, its a THIRD party frustrating the Contract. Pretty clear to me.

 

[franklin2323]

It's quite obvious he didn't want an extension, he asked the Tigers for a release?

Was that confirmed?

The story from both sides was no release was asked for.

 

[Tiger5150]

So why didn't the Tigers extend him when it 1st came out?

Clubs want to complain about loyalty when it suits them

Because for once it seems we have competent management. Cleary was ONE year into his three year deal. I liked him and thought he was good for the club, but what had he ACTUALLY achieved that deserved an extension past the two years in front of him? Tigers didnt even make the 8, hardly a massive success that is worth rewarding with extra years & $$$$. Previous Tigers administration would have flinched and offered Cleary the world but in the real world, he hadnt actaully achieved anything yet at the Tigers and didnt deserve an extension. May well have over the next two years.

 

[unforgiven]

Was that confirmed?

The story from both sides was no release was asked for.

Pascoe has confirmed it in interviews the last 2 days.

 

[franklin2323]

Because for once it seems we have competent management. Cleary was ONE year into his three year deal. I liked him and thought he was good for the club, but what had he ACTUALLY achieved that deserved an extension past the two years in front of him? Tigers didnt even make the 8, hardly a massive success that is worth rewarding with extra years & $$$$. Previous Tigers administration would have flinched and offered Cleary the world but in the real world, he hadnt actaully achieved anything yet at the Tigers and didnt deserve an extension. May well have over the next two years.

Every coach gets fired at some stage of course they will take the contract if offered. I have questioned why we wanted him so far out Souths with Bennett too given his age. If you are a coach though to have 4-5 years guaranteed money is like winning the coaching lottery

 

[big hit!]

He originally signed for 2021. Not 2019. Players have done the same thing over the years, signing for another club but still fulfilling their remaining contracts. Peachey is an example.

Tigers panicked and signed Maguire for 2019 knowing that they still had Cleary for the next two years.

players generally do it with permission from their club.

tigers didn't panic. it's untenable to have the bloke who manages the players and directs the on-field strategy of the club to be committed elsewhere.

 

[PANTHERMIKE]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me what the Panthers (or anyone else for that matter) see in Cleary as a coach besides the fact he has a mildly talented son they want to keep at the club?

Isn't his record something like 1 finals appearance in the last 7 seasons? Even his GF run in 2011 was a fluke on the back of benefiting from a flawed finals system (6th place making a GF after losing by 30 week one).

I can't see this being anything other than a spectacular failure for the Panthers.

Tigers on the other have come up well in front procuring someone who has actually been a success as a coach.

He took Penrith to a Prelim final with Will Smith in the half's in 2014..

That there proves the guy is better than Bellamy and Bennett.

 

[JB04]

He took Penrith to a Prelim final with Will Smith in the half's in 2014..

That there proves the guy is better than Bellamy and Bennett.

By that logic, Brad Arthur should be regarded in that class as Smith was playing fullback in the 2017 finals series

 

[Perth Red]

Well Panthers have found a way to pay Nathan absolutely anything they want without it going to wards the cap, pretty big advantage.

Say they pay him a mill a year, that's 1 mill extra they can spend a year to build their team that no one else can do.

Does seem a great way to get around the cap, pay the coach $1.5mill a year, with the coach then bunging his son $500k a year of it to stay! Not suggesting for a minute this is the case but could if so chosen.

 

[Bob]

The thing I don’t understand is this, if the tigers have upgraded there coach as per Pascoe and tiger supporters why are they all over Twitter and LU rubbishining ivan and why is Pascoe in the media taking potshots at Ivan
I mean you’re happy with macguire how about moving on

 

[Perth Red]

Because for once it seems we have competent management. Cleary was ONE year into his three year deal. I liked him and thought he was good for the club, but what had he ACTUALLY achieved that deserved an extension past the two years in front of him? Tigers didnt even make the 8, hardly a massive success that is worth rewarding with extra years & $$$$. Previous Tigers administration would have flinched and offered Cleary the world but in the real world, he hadnt actaully achieved anything yet at the Tigers and didnt deserve an extension. May well have over the next two years.

Thats Tigers perogative, just as it was IC to ensure he had a 5 year contract in the bank to guarantee future employment. Clubs have been quick to cast aside contracted coaches when it suits them, seems a only fair that coaches are now giving them a taste of their own medicine!