The NRL Draw - How does it work?

[Parra]

It's possibly the worst draw for any professional sport.

Best not to look into the details - it gets worse and worse. It is what happens when you let media companies control the draw.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

Lol someone is very poor at maths. there are 26 rounds a season every team plays 24 for games + 2 byes.
So were are the other two rounds

Not every round is a full 8 games Einstein.

 

[parraeels2010]

Not every round is a full 8 games Einstein.

They still play 24 matches not 22 Einstein

 

[Danish]

John Grant places an A3 piece of paper on the ground. Undoes his pants and squats over it. Takes a shit on it. Signs it. Calls it the NRL Draw.

.... and it it met with thunderous applause by the LU community

 

[bottle]

In a competition where every team doesn?t play every other team the same amount of times the draw will never be truly fair

This is true, however I've always been of the opinion that having a Top 8 finals series in a 16 team comp essentially balances out the unfairness to some extent.
Why?
Well because I think a top 8, half the comp, is too many teams in a finals series.
I understand that it is driven by a number of things, mainly revenue based, including -
- Keeping as many fans interested in the end of season games as possible. Every year the last few positions seem to come down to the wire before they're finalised.
- Having more finals series games to draw crowds and get TV coverage.

I would prefer a Final 5, or even 7 if it could be made workable. I've always felt 8 was overkill. But the 8 does allow a few teams to compete at the bottom end of the scale for the last few positions which may or may not have been disadvantaged by the draw. I know it's far from perfect, and there are still teams disadvantaged, but by and large I think the bottom 2-3 teams are often there only as 'fill' anyway (perhaps more so now under the new finals system). I recognise there have been instances like Parra 2009 that buck the trend severely.

If we ever got to the point where every team played each other the same number of times, I think the argument for a final 5 would have even more merit. Not that I ever expect to see it mind you.

 

[innsaneink]

This is true, however I've always been of the opinion that having a Top 8 finals series in a 16 team comp essentially balances out the unfairness to some extent.
Why?
Well because I think a top 8, half the comp, is too many teams in a finals series.
I understand that it is driven by a number of things, mainly revenue based, including -
- Keeping as many fans interested in the end of season games as possible. Every year the last few positions seem to come down to the wire before they're finalised.
- Having more finals series games to draw crowds and get TV coverage.

I would prefer a Final 5, or even 7 if it could be made workable. I've always felt 8 was overkill. But the 8 does allow a few teams to compete at the bottom end of the scale for the last few positions which may or may not have been disadvantaged by the draw. I know it's far from perfect, and there are still teams disadvantaged, but by and large I think the bottom 2-3 teams are often there only as 'fill' anyway (perhaps more so now under the new finals system). I recognise there have been instances like Parra 2009 that buck the trend severely.

If we ever got to the point where every team played each other the same number of times, I think the argument for a final 5 would have even more merit. Not that I ever expect to see it mind you.

If we simply ditch the trial match period and commence the comp 4 weeks earlier, its possible to play 30 rounds
Every team plays everyone else twice, home and away...it is not difficult

 

[beave]

That is a lot of games though, throw in some origins and an international or 2 and the topline players would be pretty wrecked at the end of the season.

 

[Big Sam]

Using the previous season's rankings (like we did between 2002 and 2006) is the only way to have a fair season when each team can't play each other twice. However to do this, we can only have either a 22 or 27 game season.

The 22 game season would pretty much use the format we had between 1988 and 1994.

Under a 27 game season, teams would be separated into 4 groups based on the previous year's rankings, for example:

Group 1: 1st, 5th, 9th, 13th
Group 2: 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th
Group 3: 3rd, 7th, 11th, 15th
Group 4: 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th

You'd play the 3 other teams in your group once (3 games) and the 12 other teams not in your group twice (24 games) for a total of 27 games.

27 games would be favoured by the fans and broadcasters but obviously not by the players. Also one problem would be an uneven amount of home games for half the clubs but this could be mitigated by a Super League-style Magic Weekend or a round of regional games so that each team has 13 home games and one round of 'neutral games'.

 

[innsaneink]

That is a lot of games though, throw in some origins and an international or 2 and the topline players would be pretty wrecked at the end of the season.

Topliners play trials too....maybe not as necessary for them as fringe players, but if you scrapped G/P.....and reduced the interchange, two ideas generally well supported, and the fact the teams with most rep players might come back to the field a bit with a few more games, evening up the comp even more....I cant see much problem with this

 

[hgfds]

The nrl does the draw and it favours local derbies ,hence sydney clubs are favoured as they have to travel less and receive better crowds and thus more income from the lopsided draw also means ch 9 can always have a decent sydney game to show.In the 1st year of the derby draw parra reached the gf meaning it played something like 12 games straight without leaving sydney

 

[Canard]

It's possibly the worst draw for any professional sport.

Best not to look into the details - it gets worse and worse. It is what happens when you let media companies control the draw.

Channel 9 don't control the draw, they just select the Broncos game from that draw every weekend and a Sydney game.

There are many like it however, our fellow countrymen have the same thing in the aerial ping pong code.

What about the American Football system of conferences that LU seem to want so badly in the NRL, you must play everyone in your conference twice and then "some" of the other teams once. How crap is that?

 

[Parra]

Channel 9 don't control the draw, they just select the Broncos game from that draw every weekend and a Sydney game.

There are many like it however, our fellow countrymen have the same thing in the aerial ping pong code.

What about the American Football system of conferences that LU seem to want so badly in the NRL, you must play everyone in your conference twice and then "some" of the other teams once. How crap is that?

You need to separate the TV scheduling from the draw itself.

Ch 9 picking games for primetime is not the problem. It is who plays who, not when they play.

In NFL there are divisions and conferences. Teams only play cross-conference on a rotating basis. With divisions and conferences the draw is much clearer. The big difference with NFL is that you have 32 teams competing for 12 spots in the playoffs over a season of only 16 games. Each game is important. The season itself is so intense.

Super rugby has conferences as well and the system works.

Seems to me the NRL could either have more teams and a conference/division system, or less and a true home/away draw. Most likely will be retain the status quo, it isn't something most fans seem to care about anyway.

 

[Dogs Of War]

Channel 9 don't control the draw, they just select the Broncos game from that draw every weekend and a Sydney game.

There are many like it however, our fellow countrymen have the same thing in the aerial ping pong code.

What about the American Football system of conferences that LU seem to want so badly in the NRL, you must play everyone in your conference twice and then "some" of the other teams once. How crap is that?

If we had 32 teams, we would have to do something similar. Otherwise conference can work very well, and is just making it much clearer what happens each year as we have a defacto conference system in place already.

Not to mention a conference system would give teams another thing to hang there hats on with conference champions (as well as ensuring further sponsorship opportunistic are available the NRL). It would actually be nice if someone had the time and could work out what the conferences were the previous few years, and see how that would have changed the final 8 makeup.

 

[Canard]

You need to separate the TV scheduling from the draw itself.

Ch 9 picking games for primetime is not the problem. It is who plays who, not when they play.

In NFL there are divisions and conferences. Teams only play cross-conference on a rotating basis. With divisions and conferences the draw is much clearer. The big difference with NFL is that you have 32 teams competing for 12 spots in the playoffs over a season of only 16 games. Each game is important. The season itself is so intense.

Super rugby has conferences as well and the system works.

Seems to me the NRL could either have more teams and a conference/division system, or less and a true home/away draw. Most likely will be retain the status quo, it isn't something most fans seem to care about anyway.

So can you explain, in your opinion, its the worst draw in professional sport.

Yet Rugby, AFL and American Football which have the same system dressed up differently "works"?

 

[Valheru]

What about the American Football system of conferences that LU seem to want so badly in the NRL, you must play everyone in your conference twice and then "some" of the other teams once. How crap is that?

They?re draw is much better than ours. They have 32 franchises so obviously it is not even possible for every team to play each other once let alone twice so they split the competition into conference and division.

At the end of the day every team is only compared against the teams within its own division and the draw reflects this. Out of the 16 games played, 14 are shared by the other 3 teams in a division giving you a clear indication of who has performed the best that season. Only 2 games are not common amongst the other participants of the division and they are decided by the previous year?s performance.

Even this is still not perfect and the league is aiming for an 18 game season where every team in a division plays the exact same opponents for the whole season. If the NRL wants a fair draw then it needs to work towards this unless it wants to play a 15 or 30 game season which it obviously doesn?t.

 

[Dogs Of War]

So can you explain, in your opinion, its the worst draw in professional sport.

Yet Rugby, AFL and American Football which have the same system dressed up differently "works"?

I think you need to elaborate on your question first. Why it's the worst draw? AFL pretty much have exactly the same style of draw as us, and the same complaints from teams which aren't favoured in certain markets.

As for Rugby/American sports with conferences, these works because it's known exactly who your conference opponents are, rather than it being hidden, hidden because although we have the defacto conferences which change each season, it's hard to work out what they are and their is no reward for winning that conference.

 

[Canard]

I think you need to elaborate on your question first. Why it's the worst draw? AFL pretty much have exactly the same style of draw as us, and the same complaints from teams which aren't favoured in certain markets.

As for Rugby/American sports with conferences, these works because it's known exactly who your conference opponents are, rather than it being hidden, hidden because although we have the defacto conferences which change each season, it's hard to work out what they are and their is no reward for winning that conference.

Im confused with your first para?

Hidden or not I don't think conference's would be embraced by LU fans as much as some seem to think they would be. Weak conference's would be an eternal source of whinge(and rightly so) from fans and media.

I think the flexibility of being able to mix this up should be seen as a strength not a weakness.

 

[Danish]

Topliners play trials too....maybe not as necessary for them as fringe players, but if you scrapped G/P.....and reduced the interchange, two ideas generally well supported, and the fact the teams with most rep players might come back to the field a bit with a few more games, evening up the comp even more....I cant see much problem with this

You could also save a week by then reducing to a top 5 or top 6 system, negating the need for week 1 of the current finals system.

A full home and away season would be ideal, of course reducing the amount of finals spots while lengthening the season could also end up seeing a LOT of relatively pointless games being played come the last 5-6 weeks of the competition

 

[_Johnsy]

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, due later this week.
http://m.dragons.com.au/clubNewsarticle.aspx?nid=111366&rid=

 

[Parra]

So can you explain, in your opinion, its the worst draw in professional sport.

Yet Rugby, AFL and American Football which have the same system dressed up differently "works"?

I never said it is the worst draw. I said possibly the worst.

Rugby & NFL do not use the same system. I don't know what the AFL do but I can assure you that all the systems work.

My problem with the NRL system is that some games are drawn based on team preferences and commercial considerations rather than sporting considerations.

If you can't play home/away or even play all teams in a comp, you can at least have rules for the draw that are not based on ratings and crowds.

It works though. And I don't believe it is a consideration for most fans. How many people know or care how the draw is done?