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The NRL Draw - How does it work?

Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,810
My problem with the NRL system is that some games are drawn based on team preferences and commercial considerations rather than sporting considerations.

I think for our sport these factors outweigh the need for the "perception" of a fair draw though.

As in, I don't think it would be OK to say "Well we went broke and crowds and ratings were down, but gee we had a fair draw, and thats whats important".
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,810
I like to think so also, but it would be stupid to take a knife to a gunfight wouldn't it?
 

MARSHALL ZHUKOV

Juniors
Messages
889
Can anyone explain how the NRL comes up with the Draw for the season? Obviously every team plays the others twice, but how do they determine who plays a team for the second time? Is it random or is there some method to the madness? Thanks....

the top 8 from the previous year are asked which teams they want to play twice. In my view ALL Sydney teams should play each other twice and The three Qlds teams play each other twice too each year
 

Raiderdave

First Grade
Messages
7,990
You need to separate the TV scheduling from the draw itself.

Ch 9 picking games for primetime is not the problem. It is who plays who, not when they play.

yes ... of course if we did this we'd get 100 mill for our TV rights instead of 1 Billion
like Rugby did

so...no thanks ;-)
 

Dogs Of War

Coach
Messages
12,721
Im confused with your first para?

I was just saying that the current NRL system is also used by the AFL to schedule matches, which is that the draw is structure to increase attendances and create more marque matches. Thus teams not considered high drawing on commercial TV, or will not get the same exposure will get a different style of draw to other teams. Thus the problem that the rich get richer, while the poorer teams struggle.

Hidden or not I don't think conference's would be embraced by LU fans as much as some seem to think they would be. Weak conference's would be an eternal source of whinge(and rightly so) from fans and media.

I think the flexibility of being able to mix this up should be seen as a strength not a weakness.

The weakness comes that in any given year that some teams won't be as good as the previous year, and some teams will get to face those teams extra times during the season.

Link of whom play who twice.

With a conference system in place, this effect is negated, as each conference will be assured of playing the same teams the same amount of times. A weak conference will only get one team into the semi's anyway if all other conferences are dominating them during the season, so I don't think it's all that bad.

As well conference games would potential have more chance of being ratings gold as there are more opportunities to have matchups which decide the conference champion, and thus guarantee your place in the finals. You would schedule at least 2 of those matches for the final 2 rounds, with 3 of those conference matches (assuming conferences of 4 to start with), occurring during the last 4 weeks.
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,810
I see what you are saying, I just don't think that would be embraced by League fans, shit no-one ever cares who wins the minor premiership anymore, let alone one of four conferences.

I think the current system is a strength not a weakness, as it allows flexibility and the chance to schedule marquee matchups.

As to which games of the draw TV channels choose to broadcast, that to me is a different issue altogether, and is some ways not really related.
 
Messages
11,722
Good article on the draw

http://www.nrl.com/the-process-behind-the-draw/tabid/10874/newsid/70374/default.aspx

The process behind the draw

Andrew Bryan NRL.com Mon, Nov 12, 2012 - 1:35 PM




They are the Canadian company behind some of the world's biggest sporting organisations' schedules and they believe the NRL draw is the most complex in all of sport.



Optimal Planning Solutions is the same company behind the NFL draw, and major world soccer leagues in France, Scotland and the USA. They’ve previously worked on Major League Baseball too – a small matter of 30 teams and 162 games per clubhouse.
But the NRL draw, complete with representative fixtures, broadcast demands and club requests is the most complex they have worked on.
Rick Stone and Kirk Pinneo flew from Canada to Sydney two weeks ago and have been at Rugby League Central, with their Game Scheduling Software and NRL staff working together in overdrive to get the NRL draw released late this week and say the complexity of the draw comes from a unique combination of representative fixtures, broadcaster entitlements and the NRL’s objective of meeting as many club priorities as possible.
Finalising the draw has become a much more complicated process this year due to the necessity of locking in all the times and dates for the first 20 rounds of the competition, something that hasn’t been done before at the NRL.
With 192 individual events to schedule across venues that involve multiple hirers, while trying to match requests of the 16 clubs, it is an enormous logistical exercise.
“The biggest change is the scheduling, it is a completely different approach to the draw this year,” Stone explains to NRL.com.
"No other sport puts such a priority on club requests.
“Instead of organising the season draw by round, the NRL has had to organise 20 rounds into complete timeslots, which is a much more involved process consisting of a wide range of variables.
“It is a number of steps further than just picking each round. The broadcasters are asking for certain matches and time slots and the process of moving just one game can totally change the whole draw.
“It can be like a water balloon in that if you try to block a leak on one side, it puts more pressure on the other side, so changing one element of the draw can completely change the final make-up.”
The software which has been used by the NRL for six years revolves around a unique penalty system that lets the individual sport customise and define key scheduling constraints and quantify key objectives of the final fixtures list.
The algorithm of the Game Scheduling Software calculates the best possible draw derived from a set list of parameters dictated by the sport, in this case, the NRL.
These parameters can range from travel, amount of day and night fixtures, availability of venues, the turnaround between games, consecutive games away from home and the gap between return fixtures to name a few.
There are literally trillions and trillions of different possibilities and over 50 million possible penalty points that can be accrued. The final draw will be whittled down to a mere 7,000.
It is not an exact science, but the system allows the best possible outcome based upon the criteria given to it by the NRL, clubs and broadcasters.
“The penalty element we have worked into our system is one of the most important components of our draw,” Stone said.
“The higher the penalty count the less desirable it is to see it in the final draw. When we get a draw, the system gives us a report and shows how many penalty points have been accrued. Obviously the less points the better the draw.
“We are negotiating what we change to lower that score – which will be a better result for all the clubs.
“The weight of the penalties is dictated by the clubs, for example playing multiple games on the road, certain teams draw better on certain days, the amount of rest between games etcetera.
“This schedule we are working towards has 7,800 penalty points out of a possible 50 million that could happen. So we are constantly looking to get that down further, but it is looking pretty good.”
While the NRL has tried to cater for all markets, the organising body is quick to point out that not everyone is going to be happy. The biggest challenge is to manage expectation.
In fact, the most desirable outcome according to the Canadian-based company is when everyone complains.
“If everyone is equally upset, you know you have a good draw,” Stone deadpans.
“We have found even from the same club you can get wide-ranging opinions on what they want. Management wants one thing, the coaching staff another, so you cannot please everybody even in the same club, let alone across 16 clubs all with their own requirements and expectations.
“The biggest problem with designing a draw is two or three clubs want something that is mutually exclusive, clubs who pick the exact opposite thing to each other.
“Everyone wants to start at home and everyone wants to finish at home. Straight away you have a conflict of interest.”
The NRL draw is expected to be released later this week and will be available in its entirety first on NRL.com.
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,384
You could also save a week by then reducing to a top 5 or top 6 system, negating the need for week 1 of the current finals system.

A full home and away season would be ideal, of course reducing the amount of finals spots while lengthening the season could also end up seeing a LOT of relatively pointless games being played come the last 5-6 weeks of the competition

True....though I guess one could argue its almost a top 4 finals series as it stands. Its what everyones aiming for, spots 5-8 are secondary. Some semi finals are basically pointless too.

I guess its whats more preferential to the powers that be....ratings and more bums on seats, or a fairer, more even and legitimate competition.

We all know the answer
 

Dogs Of War

Coach
Messages
12,721
I see what you are saying, I just don't think that would be embraced by League fans, shit no-one ever cares who wins the minor premiership anymore, let alone one of four conferences.

I think the current system is a strength not a weakness, as it allows flexibility and the chance to schedule marquee matchups.

As to which games of the draw TV channels choose to broadcast, that to me is a different issue altogether, and is some ways not really related.

In Australia we have never had a conference system in any form for any of the major leagues. So it hard to say fans don't give a shit, when it hasn't been tested in this market.

The minor premiership lost it's glamour because the reward for gaining it lost it's glamour once we moved to a top 8 finals series. But really the conference system would give more bragging rights because it does mean you automatically qualify for the final series by winning your conference. Not to mention that if conferences are adjusted well, with as many regional rivals as possible, you will have bragging rights for the whole summer. All it would take is some marketing, and time to build up the status of winning a conference as something that matters.
 

ShaneO85

Juniors
Messages
513

Timmah

LeagueUnlimited News Editor
Staff member
Messages
100,995
Article was posted on NRL.com I think Sunday, it's been reproduced onto most club sites at the request of the NRL in the days since.
 

no name

Referee
Messages
20,142
So who pays for the Canadian mob to come up with the draw, channel 9 or the NRL (ARLC?)?

I'm pretty skeptical about the 'priority of clubs request' line. Plus I highly doubt the lowest possible penalty draw would be passed while 9 is around.
 

CycloneSteve

Juniors
Messages
2,125
I think a conference based system is the best way to go. Four conferences of four teams each based on "traditional rivals/geographic location"

e.g. Pool 1 - North Qld, Brisbane, Gold Coast, New Zealand
Pool 2 - Canterbury, Parramatta, St George, Cronulla
Pool 3 - Souths, Roosters, Tigers, Panthers
Pool 4 - Melbourne, Canberra, Manly, Newcastle

How it works
Teams play opponents in their own pool twice = 6 games
Teams play another pool twice (on a rotating basis) = 8 games
Teams play the other teams once = 8 games
TOTAL = 22 games.

The other four weeks of the competition could then be 3 S.O.O standalone weekends and a Test Match/International Matches weekend.
You could also potentially bring back the old Panasonic Cup Competition to play on those weekends if the media still want more footy. Or play the Nines on one of those weekends.

FINALS - 8 teams
The top team from each of the Pools directly qualify for the finals in positions 1-4 (based on competition points and For/Against)
The remaining four positions are determined by competition points and can come from ANY of the four pools. If Pool 1 is particularly strong for example, they may have 3 representatives in the finals.

My two cents worth anyway...
 

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