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The officiating in the australia vs England match.

How did you rate the refereeing from sunday?

  • Top notch refereeing, can't fault them.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Great refereeing.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Apart from the odd mistake, pretty good.

    Votes: 2 4.1%
  • Made a few errors that were telling in the end.

    Votes: 5 10.2%
  • To many mistake, took the contest out of the game.

    Votes: 4 8.2%
  • Were they blind?

    Votes: 2 4.1%
  • Far to many mistake. Awarded 3 tries that weren't tries.

    Votes: 6 12.2%
  • The refs destroyed what should have been a good game.

    Votes: 25 51.0%
  • The referees cost England the match.

    Votes: 1 2.0%
  • Worst refereeing i've ever seen in any code.

    Votes: 4 8.2%

  • Total voters
    49

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,035
Ah my mistake.

Fair point although I think the Gasnier try was just a bad call all-round. The Tate try was fair under these rules.

The rules though should be changed, it's a farce and has been since 2007.
 

Springs

First Grade
Messages
5,682
Ah my mistake.

Fair point although I think the Gasnier try was just a bad call all-round. The Tate try was fair under these rules.

The rules though should be changed, it's a farce and has been since 2007.

Exactly. But the refs can still forget the ridiculous rules and just rule with common sense if they want.
The Seperation rule is the one I hate the most.
 

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,035
The problem with that is maintaining consistency. There is such a fine line between a fair separation try and a poor one.

All in all it should just be abolished.
 

Springs

First Grade
Messages
5,682
Amazing. Sheens complains about Archer not giving them enough penalties, while McNamara says 'I'm not here to whinge and moan about the ref'.
That annoys me, it's just the typical ARL attitude which switched me off being passionate for my country.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,133
The only try that was awarded which was clearly wrong was the try to Lote Tuqiri. The other decisions weren't any were near as bad as some people here are going on.

The first penalty to Australia - I thought that was more then fair enough and if anything the Poms were lucky it wasn't awarded a penalty try. They clearly started making the tackle before Brent Tate had the ball - I thought a penalty was fair as there was no guarantee he would have caught that ball. But I would say being tackled was the main reason he dropped it.

In the second Luke Lewis try the replays IMO didn't show that Cooper Cronk DEFINITELY got a hand to the ball. It looks like he might have touched it, but it's not definitive. Even if you assume that he did touch it, there's also a chance that it went backwards/sideways and wasn't actually a knock-on. Between those two things there's definitely enough reason for BOTD.

The Brent Tate try was also the correct decision according to the rules. Or the NRL rules atleast. IMO Brent Tate definitely had his finger touching the ball when it was "grounded". He was still in the field of play when the replays showed it first touching the ground aswell. I do have a problem with this try though, the rules are ridiculous and I was hoping it would be disallowed - the player should need control or downward pressure while scoring a try. He was in the process of losing the ball and only just managed to keep a finger to it before it hit the ground. I was so angry when he tried to run that try so early in the set. It was a stupid and risky play and the ridiculous rules are what saved him.
 

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,035
mxlegend99 we must have gotten the real coverage.

Basically that's how everything looked to me.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
67,055
geez that was embarrasing from the man in the middle and his cronies on the sideline. I know they need the Roos in the final to make a profit but did they have to make it THAT obvious! The missed strip at 8-6 and England well on top was the turning point in the game.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
67,055
ps can someone please explain to me why sometime the video ref gives benefit of the doubt and other times refs call? Surely its the same scenario ie the video ref isn't 100% sure.
 

The Clan

Juniors
Messages
692
I've watched the game three times already, once as a spectator, once from a critical point of view looking at the referee and a second time trying look at the referee from an Australian perspective.

I'm not going to suggest that England should have or would have won this game had they received a fair crack of the whip from the officials but equally it would be naive to think that referees don't influence the results of games by making crucial decisions at certain times of the game and in certain parts of the pitch.

Looking at statistics will not tell you even half the story, a referee is aware of the penalty count at half-time and can adjust his performance to try and level the statistics in order to deflect criticism.

I'd like to believe that Tony Archer had one bad game but unfortunately I've seen his refereeing performances against England and Great Britain and it's not just one bad game. With that in mind I'd like to believe that Tony Archer is a poor referee but the fact that he gets this gig suggests he is the best that the Australian game can offer. The only alternative view is that he is bent or completely incompetent and that purely by chance Australia have benefited from his incompetence every time he's been a referee during their games

Here's some facts and figures from the game, I'll point out that I have watched the game and made these notes whilst trying to be as objective as possible. I've only listed the blatantly obvious incidents and have left the everyday matter of fact errors of judgement by officials and players alone.

2nd minute: Gallen moves off the mark but the referee gives a penalty against Ben Westwood
4th minute: contentious one, Tate knocks on under pressure Tony Archer calls for a penalty try, video gives a penalty which I can live with
5th minute: Luke Lewis scores a try from the pressuer created by Tony Archers decision against Ben Westwood
16th minute: Nate Myles rakes the ball out in at a two-on-one tackle with Thaiday while tackling Darrell Goulding Tony Archer gives a knock-on where it should have been a penalty to England.
18th minute: From the resulting scrum Luke Lewis scores for Australia, this follows a blatant knock-on by Cooper Cronk which Tony Archer and the video ref both miss
21st minute: Earl Crabtree takes his first drive and David Shillington clearly has hold of his ponytail while making the tackle which results in a sloppy play the ball and James Roby knocks on. Should have been a penalty to England instead Australia gets a scrum.
22nd minute: From the scrum Billy Slater scores a try the replay shows a double knock-on first from Tom Briscoe then from Brent Tate before Billy Slater touches down.
26th minute: Sam Tomkins is clearly tripped by Tom Learoyd Lahrs which happens right in front of Tony Archer but no penalty!
27th minute: When England should be attacking from a penalty Australia now have possession and from this set of six Brent Tate scores a contentious try which the replays show the possibility of a right ankle being on the touchline and the probability that he bounced the ball.
29th minute: Tony Archer pulls an offside penalty from nowhere and England are again under pressure, the offside is no different than 90% of all the play the balls during a game
30th minute: following the penalty and during the resulting set of six Willie Tonga scores a try
35th minute: Tom Briscoe puts Leroy Cudjoe through a gap from a pass which is flat at worst, Cudjoe is in the clear and could potentially score but Tony Archer pulls them back for a forward pass

Half Time: the damage is done and Tony Archer can go back to the dressing room and assess what he needs to do in order to avoid questions about his impartiality.

46th minute: Australia score a try from a Luke Lewis pass to Cooper Cronk which is 2.5 m forward. Tony Archer and his officials failed to see it yet Tony Archer's last major involvement in the game was to halt an England move which could have resulted in a try for a forward pass that wasn't.
48th minute:Tom Learoyd Lahrs clearly knocks on at the play the ball but Tony Archer sees a penalty to Australia
51st minute: David Shillington clearly impedes Shaun Lunt from an offside position but Tony Archer waves play on
57th minute: England under pressure having conceded two drop outs, from the second Nate Myles clearly knocks on at the play the ball but Tony Archer waves play on and England remain under pressure in defence
58 minute: having withstood the pressure Sam Burgess has the ball raked out by Paul Gallen in a three on one tackle Tony Archer gives Australia a scrum instead of an England penalty
59th minute: Pantomime time, Cameron Smith clearly taps the ball which is obviously against the wishes of Darren Lockyer and Tony Archer allows them to change their mind. Worse than that he then lectures James Graham for having the audacity as England captain to question what just happened.
65th minute: Another two on one strip this time on Joel Tomkins by Nate Myles and Anthony Watmough, should have been another England penalty yet Tony Archer gives Australian the scrum
70th minute: another contentious one, Shaun Lunt seems to have scored a try, the video ref passes it back to Tony Archer who instantly says no try.
 

Evil Homer

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,178
I didn't watch the game because it was quite clear what was going to happen. No doubt England were sh*te, half the best players were missing and the coach is an absolute clown. There's still no defending this. ETC where are you?
 

Nothern

Juniors
Messages
58
Fairly comprehsive from Clan.

So many errors I'd forgotten about the tap and kick penalty and Graham's telling off.

Can't believe there are complaints from Australia re. refereeing decisions. What a joke! Hell, if he gets angry about treatment his lot got he'd be in orbit if he'd been coaching England.

Neutral refs now! And if that isn't possible for some rediculous reason, then please God, can we have some kind of balance with the video referee! Tonight's choice of officials was just plain wrong and has led to most of the debate not being about the skills or otherwise of the players but the officials instead. Not good.
 

miguel de cervantes

First Grade
Messages
7,470
ps can someone please explain to me why sometime the video ref gives benefit of the doubt and other times refs call? Surely its the same scenario ie the video ref isn't 100% sure.

That's a damn good question. The only way a difference would arise is if when the ref refers the decision he also gives a verbal statement signifying that he is in a benefit of the doubt frame of mind, ie don't refer the decision back to me, I don't know.
 

mrpwnd

Bench
Messages
2,640
2nd minute: Gallen moves off the mark but the referee gives a penalty against Ben Westwood
4th minute: contentious one, Tate knocks on under pressure Tony Archer calls for a penalty try, video gives a penalty which I can live with
5th minute: Luke Lewis scores a try from the pressuer created by Tony Archers decision against Ben Westwood
16th minute: Nate Myles rakes the ball out in at a two-on-one tackle with Thaiday while tackling Darrell Goulding Tony Archer gives a knock-on where it should have been a penalty to England.
18th minute: From the resulting scrum Luke Lewis scores for Australia, this follows a blatant knock-on by Cooper Cronk which Tony Archer and the video ref both miss
21st minute: Earl Crabtree takes his first drive and David Shillington clearly has hold of his ponytail while making the tackle which results in a sloppy play the ball and James Roby knocks on. Should have been a penalty to England instead Australia gets a scrum.
22nd minute: From the scrum Billy Slater scores a try the replay shows a double knock-on first from Tom Briscoe then from Brent Tate before Billy Slater touches down.
26th minute: Sam Tomkins is clearly tripped by Tom Learoyd Lahrs which happens right in front of Tony Archer but no penalty!
27th minute: When England should be attacking from a penalty Australia now have possession and from this set of six Brent Tate scores a contentious try which the replays show the possibility of a right ankle being on the touchline and the probability that he bounced the ball.
29th minute: Tony Archer pulls an offside penalty from nowhere and England are again under pressure, the offside is no different than 90% of all the play the balls during a game
30th minute: following the penalty and during the resulting set of six Willie Tonga scores a try
35th minute: Tom Briscoe puts Leroy Cudjoe through a gap from a pass which is flat at worst, Cudjoe is in the clear and could potentially score but Tony Archer pulls them back for a forward pass

Half Time: the damage is done and Tony Archer can go back to the dressing room and assess what he needs to do in order to avoid questions about his impartiality.

46th minute: Australia score a try from a Luke Lewis pass to Cooper Cronk which is 2.5 m forward. Tony Archer and his officials failed to see it yet Tony Archer's last major involvement in the game was to halt an England move which could have resulted in a try for a forward pass that wasn't.
48th minute:Tom Learoyd Lahrs clearly knocks on at the play the ball but Tony Archer sees a penalty to Australia
51st minute: David Shillington clearly impedes Shaun Lunt from an offside position but Tony Archer waves play on
57th minute: England under pressure having conceded two drop outs, from the second Nate Myles clearly knocks on at the play the ball but Tony Archer waves play on and England remain under pressure in defence
58 minute: having withstood the pressure Sam Burgess has the ball raked out by Paul Gallen in a three on one tackle Tony Archer gives Australia a scrum instead of an England penalty
59th minute: Pantomime time, Cameron Smith clearly taps the ball which is obviously against the wishes of Darren Lockyer and Tony Archer allows them to change their mind. Worse than that he then lectures James Graham for having the audacity as England captain to question what just happened.
65th minute: Another two on one strip this time on Joel Tomkins by Nate Myles and Anthony Watmough, should have been another England penalty yet Tony Archer gives Australian the scrum
70th minute: another contentious one, Shaun Lunt seems to have scored a try, the video ref passes it back to Tony Archer who instantly says no try.
Fairly comprehensive list you've provided there.
Solid proof of one-sided refereeing IMO, that was 20 opportunities and momentum shifting moments for England.
To anyone saying that those 17-20 poor quality calls wouldn't influence any game well that's just ignorance at its finest.
I turned my TV on and sat on my ass for 2 hours to watch 2 strong countries battle it out for a good match.
The refereeing denied me that and I was given an 80 minute debacle filled with some of the most one-sided and boring sh*thouse rep footy i've ever seen.
I'm sure better calls have been made while playing with mates at the park after school.
 

deluded pom?

Coach
Messages
10,897
We don't even have refs call under international rules so I don't know where that one came from. If Archer or Clark couldn't see Lunt had made the whitewash then Clark should have awarded the try with BotD. I agree with the earlier post too about Smith tapping the ball. Graham should have wiped him out.
 

Mong

Post Whore
Messages
55,685
I stopped watching after Lote's try from that forward pass, that was enough for me. All i could do wass shake my head and be glad i wasn't a pom watching that rubbish.

And we thought the refs performances during the NRL season was bad, they have reached a whole new level.
 

Scubby

Juniors
Messages
395
x11.jpg


I don't believe suggestions that the Aussies would try and influence the officials for this test match :cool:
 

Sam_the_man

First Grade
Messages
5,095
The pleasing thing for me after reading this is the number of Aussies that agree that while the poms still would have got beaten had the refing been fair they still got shafted badely by Archer and Clark.
 

babyg

Juniors
Messages
1,512
Fairly comprehensive list you've provided there.
Solid proof of one-sided refereeing IMO, that was 20 opportunities and momentum shifting moments for England.
To anyone saying that those 17-20 poor quality calls wouldn't influence any game well that's just ignorance at its finest.
I turned my TV on and sat on my ass for 2 hours to watch 2 strong countries battle it out for a good match.
The refereeing denied me that and I was given an 80 minute debacle filled with some of the most one-sided and boring sh*thouse rep footy i've ever seen.
I'm sure better calls have been made while playing with mates at the park after school.

True, I was really enjoying the game until it seemed everything went against England. It really destroyed the game.
 

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