The Origin Black Mail - Is it even legal?

[Scubby]

I've often wondered whether the origin blackmail of making players (e.g. Uate, Tamou, Mead) declare for Australia in order to play in the SOO series has any legality at all?

After all, it is just a 2 state competition and cannot officially be an Australian trial as, theoretically, players who were born and bred in Perth, Victoria etc. could not qualify and play.

Would it stand up to restraint of trade laws if qualifying players like SBW, Isaac Luke or James Segeyaro took legal action to gain origin selection (based on their eligibility) but insisted on keeping their national identity/allegiance in tact?

I only ask this as Australia are pretty much stringing every promising player along with a slim hope of Origin and getting them to declare for Australia and dump any other team they may have played for. I not sure that many of these players actually want to play for the Kangaroos at all. They just want the origin games and the pay day.

 

[Son of Minto]

Milford is Australian. SBW and Luke are not eligible for Origin

 

[Scubby]

Milford is Australian

And David Mead

 

[Son of Minto]

And David Mead

Unlike Mead, Milford was born and raised here. Nice try.

 

[WellsNZ]

I've often wondered whether the origin blackmail of making players (e.g. Uate, Tamou, Milford) declare for Australia in order to play in the SOO series has any legality at all?

After all, it is just a 2 state competition and cannot officially be an Australian trial as, theoretically, players who were born and bred in Perth, Victoria etc. could not qualify and play.

Would it stand up to restraint of trade laws if qualifying players like SBW, Isaac Luke or James Segeyaro took legal action to gain origin selection (based on their eligibility) but insisted on keeping their national identity/allegiance in tact?

I only ask this as Australia are pretty much stringing every promising player along with a slim hope of Origin and getting them to declare for Australia and dump any other team they may have played for. I not sure that many of these players actually want to play for the Kangaroos at all. They just want the origin games and the pay day.

If they aren't eligible/don't elect to play for Australia then they aren't "qualifying players".

Part of the qualification is that you are eligible to play for Australia and elect to play for Australia.

Nobody is forced into doing that, you get the choice, keep your eligibility with whatever country, or switch allegiance to Australia. If they prioritise Origin over the other country then that's their choice, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. Origin is an Australian game for people from NSW and Queensland, it's not for people like SBW and Luke, they aren't from NSW, they aren't from Queensland.

 

[Scubby]

Unlike Mead, Milford was born and raised here. Nice try.

Okay, I've edited my OP so maybe you can contribute rather than splitting hairs.

 

[Scubby]

If they aren't eligible/don't elect to play for Australia then they aren't "qualifying players".

Part of the qualification is that you are eligible to play for Australia and elect to play for Australia.

Nobody is forced into doing that, you get the choice, keep your eligibility with whatever country, or switch allegiance to Australia. If they prioritise Origin over the other country then that's their choice, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. Origin is an Australian game for people from NSW and Queensland, it's not for people like SBW and Luke, they aren't from NSW, they aren't from Queensland.

Origin is not based on birth rite it is based on where you play your first football.

 

[WellsNZ]

Origin is not based on birth rite it is based on where you play your first football.

If you aren't eligible for Australia/don't elect to play for Australia, you do not qualify for Origin.

That is part of the qualification. The players you referred to as "qualifying players" are not because they aren't eligible/don't elect to play for Australia.

People like SBW and Luke are not from Australia, they don't elect to play for Australia, they don't identify as Australian, they have no place in State of Origin.


http://www.nrl.com/portals/nrl/RadEditor/Documents/OriginEligibilityExplained.pdf

To qualify for State of Origin you must be eligible and elect to play for Australia and have not
represented another Tier 1 Nation at Senior Level (England/New Zealand)

Thus SBW and Luke do not qualify, Segeyaro would need to be eligible and elect to play for Australia in order to qualify. Otherwise he is not a "qualifying player".

 

[Scubby]

If you aren't eligible for Australia/don't elect to play for Australia, you do not qualify for Origin.

That is part of the qualification. The players you referred to as "qualifying players" are not because they aren't eligible/don't elect to play for Australia.

People like SBW and Luke are not from Australia, they don't elect to play for Australia, they don't identify as Australian, they have no place in State of Origin.


http://www.nrl.com/portals/nrl/RadEditor/Documents/OriginEligibilityExplained.pdf



Thus SBW and Luke do not qualify, Segeyaro would need to be eligible and elect to play for Australia in order to qualify. Otherwise he is not a "qualifying player".

The point I was making was could this actually stand up legally? Take a player like Jack Reed for example, born in England but only ever played RL in Queensland. Is there a restraint of trade that prevents him earning money from a show piece inter-state fixture - without making him give up his nationality.

 

[Evil Homer]

If you aren't eligible for Australia/don't elect to play for Australia, you do not qualify for Origin.

That is part of the qualification. The players you referred to as "qualifying players" are not because they aren't eligible/don't elect to play for Australia.

People like SBW and Luke are not from Australia, they don't elect to play for Australia, they don't identify as Australian, they have no place in State of Origin.


http://www.nrl.com/portals/nrl/RadEditor/Documents/OriginEligibilityExplained.pdf



Thus SBW and Luke do not qualify, Segeyaro would need to be eligible and elect to play for Australia in order to qualify. Otherwise he is not a "qualifying player".

So they're pretty much offering a financial incentive to coerce dual-eligible players to commit to Australia.

As far as the OP goes, I'm pretty sure that a lot of the things that happen in international RL are illegal, from the AMNRL's various shenanigans over the years to the way the RLIF board is elected and operated. The whole thing is a backwards joke.

 

[madunit]

I've often wondered whether the origin blackmail of making players (e.g. Uate, Tamou, Mead) declare for Australia in order to play in the SOO series has any legality at all?

After all, it is just a 2 state competition and cannot officially be an Australian trial as, theoretically, players who were born and bred in Perth, Victoria etc. could not qualify and play.

Timana Tahu and Peter Wallace were both born in Victoria. Justin Poore was born in Perth.

 

[Scubby]

Timana Tahu and Peter Wallace were both born in Victoria. Justin Poore was born in Perth.

Origin is where you played your first football - so that is what qualified them. It is feasible now that a player born in Melbourne coming through the Storm junior ranks would not qualify etc.

 

[WellsNZ]

Of course tying people up to Australia nationally helps as well, but the players aren't forced to do that, it's their choice if they'd rather take the money than stay true to their country.

Origin isn't some entitlement for all talented players to partake in. Jack Reed is English, he represents England, he has no place in an Australian State of Origin game.

The eligibility criteria turned into a farce, if anything they need to be keeping it tight. Just because SBW is a great player doesn't mean he should have any involvement in Origin, it's not an all star game.

 

[Evil Homer]

The eligibility criteria turned into a farce, if anything they need to be keeping it tight. Just because SBW is a great player doesn't mean he should have any involvement in Origin, it's not an all star game.

It was pretty much supposed to be an all-star game from a time when Australian RL was just players from Queensland and NSW. Origin is a comically outdated concept that is fast getting to the stage where it's going to have done more harm than good for the sport overall.

 

[WellsNZ]

I fail to see what is so "outdated" about the concept of having a bunch of guys from Queensland play a bunch of guys from NSW to see who is better.

You need only look to the All Star games in American sports to see how much of a farce an actual All Star game is.

 

[Springs]

Who says SBW should be involved in Origin?
Jack Reed is English yes, but he is also a Queenslander.

It's just stupid to look at it in black and white. People can be from a variety of places. I see no reason why Milford should not be able to represent Queensland and Samoa.

 

[Springs]

I fail to see what is so "outdated" about the concept of having a bunch of guys from Queensland play a bunch of guys from NSW to see who is better.

You need only look to the All Star games in American sports to see how much of a farce an actual All Star game is.

Because a lot of the time those bunch of guys aren't from QLD or NSW, or they are from the other state. Australia just keeps changing the rules to give their states the best players.
Just look at the Luke Keary farce. Born in QLD, grew up in QLD, played footy in QLD, but has to play for NSW because he played his first senior game there. That's not 'Origin'.

 

[WellsNZ]

It has to be black and white in some aspects or you continue to end up with ridiculous selections of players that didn't belong there.

If you're English, your Origin isn't Queenslander, it's England.

 

[WellsNZ]

Because a lot of the time those bunch of guys aren't from QLD or NSW, or they are from the other state. Australia just keeps changing the rules to give their states the best players.
Just look at the Luke Keary farce. Born in QLD, grew up in QLD, played footy in QLD, but has to play for NSW because he played his first senior game there. That's not 'Origin'.

It isn't simply because he played his first senior game there, the majority of the questions that determine whether you are NSW or Queensland are NSW when it comes to Keary.

The issues with them not being from Queensland or NSW were cleared up when they redid the criteria. If they weren't born in NSW or Queensland, or lived there before they turned 13, they aren't eligible any more, unless their father played.

http://www.nrl.com/portals/nrl/RadEditor/Documents/OriginEligibilityExplained.pdf

That is how it works.

 

[Evil Homer]

I fail to see what is so "outdated" about the concept of having a bunch of guys from Queensland play a bunch of guys from NSW to see who is better.

You need only look to the All Star games in American sports to see how much of a farce an actual All Star game is.

Do you understand what Origin is, why it exists and how it became what it is today? It's an absolutely outdated concept from a time before a national RL competition existed in Australia, based on the idea that players from Queensland would be signed up by the richer clubs in the NSWRL Premiership. Realistically it hasn't been relevant since the late 80's, but considering the nature of the sport and demographics in 2014 it's just absolutely absurd.