The Origin Black Mail - Is it even legal?

[WellsNZ]

if origin was a genuine kangaroo trial and out of state players where able to elect a state to play for then the ARLC has every right to demand players be eligible for australia...


but them are'nt the rules are they....the rule actively discriminates against AUSTRALIANS


seriously if they got taken to court the ARLC would lose hands down

lol f**king PC gone mad :crazy:

 

[roughyedspud]

lol it does though

 

[ek999]

No it discriminates against anyone who didn't live in NSW or Qld before the age of 13. If you have not lived in one of those 2 states you can't play Origin regardless of nationality

 

[Tayjack]

Good to see you learning.

i got the bing unit i got the bing - u can help me maddy - please.

 

[The Great Dane]

A kid born and bred in the ACT, Vic, SA, WA & NT has no connection to NSW though (well except maybe ACT, I think they may be able to play for NSW as they are part of CRL). A kid that moves to NSW or Qld before he is 13 does

Yeah the NSWRL basically treats the ACT as part of NSW (when it suits them), but it doesn't mean that the ACT has to like it.

Every time I see an ACT born and bred player run out in a NSW jumper a little bit of me hollows out and gets filled with hatred and anger about the whole situation, much like the anger that built up in Queenslanders prior to State of Origin I'd imagine.

 

[The Great Dane]

if origin was a genuine kangaroo trial and out of state players where able to elect a state to play for then the ARLC has every right to demand players be eligible for australia...


but them are'nt the rules are they....the rule actively discriminates against AUSTRALIANS


seriously if they got taken to court the ARLC would lose hands down

Yeah of course it discriminates against Australians that weren't born or raised in NSW or Queensland that's kind of the point!

It's State of Origin NSW vs Queensland, not a North vs South All stars game.

By the way, most people born outside of NSW and Queensland wouldn't want to play SOO for NSW or Queensland, and the others would only do it for the paycheck.

 

[Scubby]

By the way, most people born outside of NSW and Queensland wouldn't want to play SOO for NSW or Queensland, and the others would only do it for the paycheck.

I think this is exactly what we are saying about players like Mead, Utae etc. I don't think they have any real desire to play for Australia - they just want the big SOO games and the match payments.

None of these players have ever come out and said I want to play for Australia. It is always I want to play Origin/Rep Footy - probably knowing that the rest is a mess and they can just hop about when they feel like it.

 

[RedVee]

Yeah the NSWRL basically treats the ACT as part of NSW (when it suits them), but it doesn't mean that the ACT has to like it.

Every time I see an ACT born and bred player run out in a NSW jumper a little bit of me hollows out and gets filled with hatred and anger about the whole situation, much like the anger that built up in Queenslanders prior to State of Origin I'd imagine.

I think for Rugby League purposes ACT was deemed to be within NSW way back when. I guess due to the CRL link.

 

[expansionist]

I would love to see an international RL body select NRL players for their 'test' matches and then watch what happens - regardless of their origin selection or not.

If Aku Uate played for NSW, and then lets say was selected for a Fiji game later that year - imagine the outcry.

I hope one day an emerging international body has the guts to challenge the 'SOO means you must play for Australia' paradigm.

What would happen? Im sure the ARL would kick up a stink BUT if the player or federation had the guts they could actually challenge it.

Remember there are precedents - Adrian Lam for example.

Legally, its been done before, so why not again?

Would it untimately work?

Who can say.. the so called 'rules' the ARL work by seem to change and have exemptions every time they look at them

 

[The Great Dane]

I think for Rugby League purposes ACT was deemed to be within NSW way back when. I guess due to the CRL link.

Yeah I understand that and for a time it was necessary, but we passed that time of necessity 30 years ago.

 

[Evil Homer]

How can you say "the contest is State of Origin "not Queenslanders vs NSWelshman" lol, it's the same bloody thing.

No, it's not. Origin is supposed to be 'players produced in Queensland vs players produced in NSW'. That's what you're missing. There's every reason that a player from another nation could be produced in NSW or Queensland. The likes of Uate, Papalii, Costigan, Mead etc all qualify for Origin but are not Australians. The idea that 'it's Queensland vs NSW and people from outside Australia can't be from Queensland or NSW' is not only some low-level bogan-esque BS, it's also completely incorrect in terms of State of Origin.

Either it's a contest between born-and-bred statesmen, in which case it should be played with similar rules to international sport, or it's a contest between players produced in states, in which case there should be no requirement for players to commit to Australia. That wouldn't make it a free-for-all or an all-stars game, if anything it would be closer what Origin was actually supposed to be about. Right now it's just a confused mix between the two and in practice serves as nothing more than a way for Australia to bribe and horde players that would otherwise be playing for other nations.

 

[roughyedspud]

cracking post lad

 

[WellsNZ]

No, it's not. Origin is supposed to be 'players produced in Queensland vs players produced in NSW'. That's what you're missing. There's every reason that a player from another nation could be produced in NSW or Queensland. The likes of Uate, Papalii, Costigan, Mead etc all qualify for Origin but are not Australians. The idea that 'it's Queensland vs NSW and people from outside Australia can't be from Queensland or NSW' is not only some low-level bogan-esque BS, it's also completely incorrect in terms of State of Origin.

Either it's a contest between born-and-bred statesmen, in which case it should be played with similar rules to international sport, or it's a contest between players produced in states, in which case there should be no requirement for players to commit to Australia. That wouldn't make it a free-for-all or an all-stars game, if anything it would be closer what Origin was actually supposed to be about. Right now it's just a confused mix between the two and in practice serves as nothing more than a way for Australia to bribe and horde players that would otherwise be playing for other nations.

It's "players born or who lived part of their formative years in Queensland" vs "players born or who lived part of their formative years in NSW". That is what is correct in terms of State of Origin, by the eligibility criteria.

It's not about production, it's players who were born there, or lived there at such a young age that one could fairly say they identify that region as where they are from. If a guy moved there at 15 and started playing his footy, he may have been "produced" in that area, but he doesn't qualify because it isn't where he's "from". "From" in this instance being born or spending part of your early childhood.

None of these guys who are born or grew up elsewhere are forced to play Origin, you get the choice, most of them take the money. Some take a stand because they value what they believe is their true "origin"more than money. Kasiano was being courted big time, he opted to not take the money and play for the Kiwis. Others clearly care more about the money and Origin more than their "homeland". That's on them, now you just want to bend the rules to support these mercenaries. No thanks.

 

[Bronco Rob]

It's so easy to fix up the SOO vs International eligibility mess, take the Australian selection policy out of the SOO equation and maintain the status quo of having to be residing in the state before 13. Then the likes of Milford, Maguire, Teo(geeup), Vidot, Uate etc don't have these intimidatory decisions before them. We all know that most will choose Origin before the likes of PI Island nations and even NZ because of monetry reasons and best of all it will even out the playing fields internationally and we will still maintain the integrity of 'State of Origin'.

I've been against this idea over the years but have realised that it really needs to be implemented as the playing stocks of the NRL are a lot different makeup to thirty years ago, we need to move with the times and stop this archaic thinking.

 

[hutch]

It's so easy to fix up the SOO vs International eligibility mess, take the Australian selection policy out of the SOO equation and maintain the status quo of having to be residing in the state before 13. Then the likes of Milford, Maguire, Teo(geeup), Vidot, Uate etc don't have these intimidatory decisions before them. We all know that most will choose Origin before the likes of PI Island nations and even NZ because of monetry reasons and best of all it will even out the playing fields internationally and we will still maintain the integrity of 'State of Origin'.

I've been against this idea over the years but have realised that it really needs to be implemented as the playing stocks of the NRL are a lot different makeup to thirty years ago, we need to move with the times and stop this archaic thinking.

I've always been against it but I would now take it in a heartbeat to stop the current situation. I still think there are better options which will benefit the sport in the longer term, but there is too much insularity and self interest in our sport to even think about planning for 20 years down the track. This is a quick fix which will improve things straight away. It would end the need to swap countries at will and a rule should be able to enforce that anyway.

 

[roughyedspud]

telling you that for years pal ;-)



i really don't see how having someone like uate being able to play for NSW & fiji destroys the integrity of origin....

yet uate having to dump fiji to earn more money playing origin ruining international RL...



though i do think the biggest losers in being able to let players play for a 2nd tier nation & origin is going to be new zealand.....kiwis with islander heritage are likely to opt for tonga,samoa,cook islands over NZ just so they can play origin....



oh well :crazy:

 

[some11]

I also wouldn't have a problem with players that are a product of the QRL/NSWRL playing for countries other than Australia if they feel they identify more with them.

Needs to be the same amount of games and payments for other countries for it to work though.

On the 'discrimination against Australians' argument, if you grow up playing footy in a state outside of QLD/NSW and choose to stay there knowing full well you'll be ineligible for Origin you are still eligible for Australia - you just have to be good enough to be selected over Origin players which is tough.

 

[hutch]

The two Melbourne born and raised players for the storm have both chosen to represent tonga and Samoa recently. With origin out of the occasion, it will be interesting what they would do if they were in Australian contention.

 

[Scubby]

It's "players born or who lived part of their formative years in Queensland" vs "players born or who lived part of their formative years in NSW". That is what is correct in terms of State of Origin, by the eligibility criteria.

It's not about production, it's players who were born there, or lived there at such a young age that one could fairly say they identify that region as where they are from. If a guy moved there at 15 and started playing his footy, he may have been "produced" in that area, but he doesn't qualify because it isn't where he's "from". "From" in this instance being born or spending part of your early childhood.

None of these guys who are born or grew up elsewhere are forced to play Origin, you get the choice, most of them take the money. Some take a stand because they value what they believe is their true "origin"more than money. Kasiano was being courted big time, he opted to not take the money and play for the Kiwis. Others clearly care more about the money and Origin more than their "homeland". That's on them, now you just want to bend the rules to support these mercenaries. No thanks.

And how does Toni Carroll - play for Queensland, play for New Zealand, play for Queensland, play for Australia - fit into this water tight eligibility framework then?

 

[mickey22]

And how does Toni Carroll - play for Queensland, play for New Zealand, play for Queensland, play for Australia - fit into this water tight eligibility framework then?

How long ago was that?
Move on, things have changed since the Chin played.