The player pool depth debate

[Perth Red]

Two easy ways to get around depth concerns....

1. Reduce squad sizes

2. Marquee/franchise player contracts

SL has brought in salary cap exemptions if you sign a player from outside traditional league development. Would love to see that in nrl. there are literally tens of thousands of 18-25 years olds playing RL who don’t get a chance at nrl level. There has to be untapped talent out there. Plus union talent in PI’s and NZ plus SL talent plus PNG which we’ve barely begun to develop. There’s not a lack of opportunity, just a lack of strategy and investment

 

[Walter sobchak]

SL has brought in salary cap exemptions if you sign a player from outside traditional league development. Would love to see that in nrl. there are literally tens of thousands of 18-25 years olds playing RL who don’t get a chance at nrl level. There has to be untapped talent out there. Plus union talent in PI’s and NZ plus SL talent plus PNG which we’ve barely begun to develop. There’s not a lack of opportunity, just a lack of strategy and investment

Once players like Justin olam and edene gebbie breakthrough and become successes or even superstars more and more NRL clubs will sit up and take notice of the huge potential in PNG and its untapped resources.

We’ll hopefully see NRL clubs setting up coaching clinics all over PNG in places like Port Moresby. Lae, Goroka and Mount Hagen etc Looking for the next NRL kumul superstar.

 

[wain]

SL has brought in salary cap exemptions if you sign a player from outside traditional league development. Would love to see that in nrl. there are literally tens of thousands of 18-25 years olds playing RL who don’t get a chance at nrl level. There has to be untapped talent out there. Plus union talent in PI’s and NZ plus SL talent plus PNG which we’ve barely begun to develop. There’s not a lack of opportunity, just a lack of strategy and investment

I've always thought there could be some salary cap exemption ($400k eg.) for players who haven't played juniors/grade rugby league in QLD, NSW or NZ.

That would allow teams to look at other areas of Australia, or worldwide, or look at union players.
They could use this in several smaller contracts to trial players, or use it all on a big marquee union player for example.

 

[jim_57]

I've always thought there could be some salary cap exemption ($400k eg.) for players who haven't played juniors/grade rugby league in QLD, NSW or NZ.

That would allow teams to look at other areas of Australia, or worldwide, or look at union players.
They could use this in several smaller contracts to trial players, or use it all on a big marquee union player for example.

You'd need to include England as well or every club would just sign 3-4 Englishmen pretty much risk free and absolutely pillage Super League.

Not a bad idea though, more incentive for clubs to look putside the square and less risk of them using cap space on an unproven player.

 

[Perth Red]

Ideally if perth came in they would be funded to work with png rl to become a direct pathway to nrl for png players. Take the best 7or 8 png juniors every year and bring them across to be part of the Pirates development system in perth. They can learn a trade or get a qualification whilst they’re here and the Australian govt can pay for it. Sorted.

 

[siv]

If you want a quick fix like Sivo you need to raise RU or NFL ranks

But the better way is to address the professional layer gap above U20s

We have killed off two development layers in past 20 years U23s and U21s

The gap between Reserve Grade and NRL in NSW has narrowed after the Top30+6 setup has occurred

But the gap between RG and U20s has grown

Late bloomers are choosing retirement or RU and RMC isn't working for them as a development pathways

So we need to bring back a layer like U22s

I would revert 3rd grade to U22s bringing back the Presidents Cup trophy over a full season and move U20s Jersey Flegg back to a 9 round junior format as it is being impacted by education commitments

 

[Wily Ole Dog]

Players should also be allowed to play first grade after competing in reserves or whatever it’s now called

 

[flippikat]

Ideally if perth came in they would be funded to work with png rl to become a direct pathway to nrl for png players. Take the best 7or 8 png juniors every year and bring them across to be part of the Pirates development system in perth. They can learn a trade or get a qualification whilst they’re here and the Australian govt can pay for it. Sorted.

Yep. Any expansion team needs to be creative in building their initial roster, but particularly expansion teams outside NSW/Qld/NZ.. I suspect that Perth won't be able to rely on Queensland's overflow (as the 1980s Raiders or more recently the Storm have done to great success).. especially if their debut coincides with a 2nd Brisbane team.

 

[MugaB]

Yep. Any expansion team needs to be creative in building their initial roster, but particularly expansion teams outside NSW/Qld/NZ.. I suspect that Perth won't be able to rely on Queensland's overflow (as the 1980s Raiders or more recently the Storm have done to great success).. especially if their debut coincides with a 2nd Brisbane team.

Maybe a bit more added to the salary cap to entice more experienced players into their 1st grade side

 

[Perth Red]

Maybe a bit more added to the salary cap to entice more experienced players into their 1st grade side

a relocation allowance or something maybe. I suspect we will go raiding SL for our first few years given half of perth is from England! On the plus side perth is an amazing place to live so lifestyle will be an attraction.

 

[Perth Red]

Rugby league test coaches Wayne Bennett and Michael Maguire champion grassroots growth over NRL expansion
Tony Smith15:29, Nov 08 2019

"The problem with expansion is you dilute the product," Bennett said.
"Everyone's sitting there [in front of TV] with a remote ... there's about 10 options you can have.
"We've all got where we are from the amount of money we take from TV rights. We've got to produce a product that they want to see."
Bennett said expanding the NRL without "a lot more work on the grassroots" would be a mistake.
"In Australia, I don't think we can go [from 16] to 18 clubs until we are stronger at the grassroots."
He said it would risk turning TV viewers off if games were not competitive.
Bennett would rather see the sport "put millions into the grassroots and get more people playing the game", which would result in the sport becoming stronger at top-level.
He said the Australian Football League (AFL) competition "went from 10 to 18 clubs", but some had struggled, including "one that hasn't got off the bottom" of the table.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/leagu...champion-grassroots-growth-over-nrl-expansion

 

[Walter sobchak]

Rugby league test coaches Wayne Bennett and Michael Maguire champion grassroots growth over NRL expansion
Tony Smith15:29, Nov 08 2019

"The problem with expansion is you dilute the product," Bennett said.
"Everyone's sitting there [in front of TV] with a remote ... there's about 10 options you can have.
"We've all got where we are from the amount of money we take from TV rights. We've got to produce a product that they want to see."
Bennett said expanding the NRL without "a lot more work on the grassroots" would be a mistake.
"In Australia, I don't think we can go [from 16] to 18 clubs until we are stronger at the grassroots."
He said it would risk turning TV viewers off if games were not competitive.
Bennett would rather see the sport "put millions into the grassroots and get more people playing the game", which would result in the sport becoming stronger at top-level.
He said the Australian Football League (AFL) competition "went from 10 to 18 clubs", but some had struggled, including "one that hasn't got off the bottom" of the table.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/leagu...champion-grassroots-growth-over-nrl-expansion

Classic Chicken and egg situation.

 

[Perth Red]

Too true, It is nigh on impossible to quantify it. How many more kids need to be playing the game? how many more kids need to be elite programs? etc etc to bring through more talent. How will we know if we have a surplus and can bring in new teams?
I havent heard one person be able to explain it in any more detailed way than "we need more or it will dilute the talent". I wish a journalist actually had some journalistic ability and asked the people who say these things to explain what they mean. Lets look at Bennets statements that are reported as fact but are just opinion

"The problem with expansion is you dilute the product," Based on what evidence and by how much?

expanding the NRL without "a lot more work on the grassroots" would be a mistake. What does a lot more mean?

"put millions into the grassroots and get more people playing the game" The NRL is putting tens of millions more in than a decade ago and if it was just a numbers in numbers out surely PNG would have the best side in the world

 

[siv]

It's more important to address the player development gap between U20s and RG

Once this occurs after 2 seasons you have a player pool and production line that won't dilute the product

As I said before 280 players enter this pool every year

 

[Wily Ole Dog]

Grassroots should equate to bush football. There are massive pockets of Sydney where you simply won’t grow player participation

 

[Dragonwest]

There was a massive grass root expansion and then contraction in Perth from '92 to '00. I wonder what two decisions brought that on?

 

[Perth Red]

There was a massive grass root expansion and then contraction in Perth from '92 to '00. I wonder what two decisions brought that on?

yep, if we ever get a team interest will go through the roof and more WA kids will choose league over union

 

[mongoose]

Classic Chicken and egg situation.

exactly.. whats the best way to increase grassroots in a non heartland city? give them a team to play for!
Bennett and Maguire are backwards on this and probably think kids in Perth all want to play for the Rabbitohs or something.

 

[Pippen94]

More roads equals more cars. Creating more chances of playing for a living will create more players.

 

[jim_57]

More roads equals more cars. Creating more chances of playing for a living will create more players.

That and more NRL spots available means more NRL experience every year. 2 new teams creates 816 more NRL "caps". For the most part NRL experience is the only thing that will make an average player a good player or a good player a great player. If a young player has played 20-40 NRL games between the age of 18-21 he will be a better player at 22 than if he is debuting at that age 9 times out of 10.