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The reasons for low Sydney crowds - ideas and solutions?

ToiletDuck

Juniors
Messages
295
I think we need to face facts here people. The truth is league in Sydney is often played at substandard remote suburban venues that are often populated by aggressive drunken bogans. I'm as big a league fan as you can get but thats how it is. We cant capture the casual fan when this kind of environment exists at games. Compare it to Brisbane - top class stadium with great facilities and infrastructure. AFL smashes us on crowd figures, because they know how to draw people through the gates. Sure we smash them on tv ratings, but seeing half empty stadiums does nothing for the credibility of our game. I think a lot of neutral sports fans and families really like league as a spectacle, yet are put off by the "bogan factor" and the impression of the game as a lower class and unfashionable sport (especially conpared to AFL). The way it is portrayed in the media is testament to that, with players being dragged through the mud for things that AFL poofs get away with every day of the week, and reports of crowd violence. But these same people love watching the sport on tv, they just cant bring themselves to go to the ground. What we need to do is change that.

I think the first step is to take away the alcohol. If you need to get smashed at the footy to have a good time then piss off, you're not a true fan of the game. Yes that punishes the responsible people who may want to enjoy a couple of quiet drinks, but on the whole it would be better if alcohol was banned outright. Crowd trouble would reduce to zero, and the environment would be far more family-friendly. We might lose a few tools whose main reason for turning up is to get drunk and rowdy, but i'd say its worth it. We've all seen the detrimental effects that packs of idiots can have on other people's enjoyment of the game.

Then we need to take a long hard look at the quality of venues. We've read the reports in other threads of sh*t facilities at Brookvale etc. Maybe others could share their experiences. Oh yeah, and saying "harden up" is not going to help bring in the crowds that should be the lifeblood of the game.

Your thoughts...
 

Knight76

Juniors
Messages
2,045
Can live games, Ban alcohol, reduce admission prices or introduce better deals.

The grounds are what they are. I used to go to the old marathon every chance I could. Sure it was just a grandstand and a hill, but it was the teams home. Turn them into concrete jungles and suddenly the price of admission sky rockets, families can no longer afford to attend and average crowd figures fall. It's too easy to stay at home and watch the game live or on slight delay.

Brisbane gets good crowds because they win the comp so often and are always competitive. If the quality of the ground is what attracts crowds then South's should have a full house every game.
 

ali

Bench
Messages
4,962
Actually having a decent crack at changing the percpetion of boganess and RL with a decent media / advertising campaign would be a good start.

Then have a crack at breaking down the discrimination that is stopping Rl from being played in private schools. It`s blatent discrimination, someone should take those schools to court.
 

Woods99

Juniors
Messages
908
ali said:
Actually having a decent crack at changing the percpetion of boganess and RL with a decent media / advertising campaign would be a good start.

Then have a crack at breaking down the discrimination that is stopping Rl from being played in private schools. It`s blatent discrimination, someone should take those schools to court.


The only people who could "take those schools to court" would be the parents. If parents want a school to play a particular sport, they do not have to take anybody to court, they just have to bring pressure to bear on the school administration.


However, I am certain that you will find that a majority of parents who send their kids to private schools prefer the sports that are being played in those schools. Similarly a majority of academically selective government schools seem to prefer rugby union.
 

yobbo84

Coach
Messages
10,763
Solutions? Get more blokes like Peter Holmes a Court running the game... quotes from Today's SMH: http://www.leaguehq.com.au/news/news/souths-eye-happy-monday/2007/03/18/1174152882111.html

But Holmes a Court said he and Crowe wanted to boost the game's profile and revenue for the benefit of all clubs, and revealed the Rabbitohs had been helping the Roosters draw a big crowd tonight.

"We've had a very good relationship with the other clubs that we're pushing on a few things," he said. "On the field, it is going to be a bloody feud - but off the field, we have to work together.

"We want the Roosters game to have a big crowd. It's their home ground, but we want them to have a blockbuster night and we're working with them to get a big crowd. Then, next week, we want to have a great second-round crowd for our match against Parramatta.

"Before this, I ran a cattle company and our opposition was chicken - not the neighbouring farm. In rugby league, our competition is AFL, our competition is people staying at home or people going out for dinner or people sitting in a dark room listening to an iPod. Our competition is every alternative way of getting entertainment, not other rugby league clubs."

The guy is class.
 

ozbash

Referee
Messages
26,922
having a decent crack at changing the percpetion of boganess and RL

tell the players they represent the game and to behave themselves- gower

Then have a crack at breaking down the discrimination that is stopping Rl from being played in private schools. It`s blatent discrimination, someone should take those schools to court.

what self respecting privately owned school, supposedly putting the intrests of the kids (and their fee paying parents) first would want to encourage the children to look up to people like mason, gower, latu, etc etc ?

the game has got to get its act together, the rest will follow.

sh*t sticks.
 

Knight76

Juniors
Messages
2,045
Put it this way, You can spend 50-80 to turn upto one football game with your partner, or spend 50-80 to watch every football game that month. Simple enough.
 

aids

Bench
Messages
3,994
still one game left this week

and dogs, dragons and tigers playing at home next weekend should balance things out a bit too.
 

t-ba

Post Whore
Messages
58,091
ali said:
Actually having a decent crack at changing the percpetion of boganess and RL with a decent media / advertising campaign would be a good start.

That'd be the one. The work of players in the community needs to be pushed by both the clubs and the NRL. Shove it down the media's throats until they relent.
 

t-ba

Post Whore
Messages
58,091
However, I am certain that you will find that a majority of parents who send their kids to private schools prefer the sports that are being played in those schools. Similarly a majority of academically selective government schools seem to prefer rugby union.

Kids of parents at Selective Schools don't care for Union. That's why most of them are lucky to field a second grade side these days...
 

mark123

Juniors
Messages
828
I like the way we have responded to this.

Traditionally league has had poor attendance. For this we must think outside the square for once. We must innovate. Where innovation is not enough, we must invent.


You must ask questions. Its a question of economics; and it is a question of attraction. Whats attractive when it comes to stadiums? Well what ISNT attractive is a run down, poorly facilitated suburban ground.

Attraction: Baseball in America had a fan attendance crisis. Their solution is to be innovative in stadium design. Have a look on the web at some of the new baseball stadiums in America. The new Mets one in new york is particularly interesting. In fact its highly innovative, atmospheric, inspiring and pleasing. Its the opposite of the behemoth stadia that littered the United States for most of the last century.....its integrating with the environment...it makes people want to attend and the stadium is a central hub of activity in the area - the natural and central stop-point of the flow of people on game day.


Thats the vision for our future. The stadium must integrate with the community. As easy as you goto travel downstairs, flick on your tv and sit on the lounge.....getting to and attending at the stadium must be seen to be as easy and feel as easy. People dont want to be put out these days. Its so easy to get foxtel, it requires you to make an effort ONCE....attending requires that you make an effort OVER AND OVER....you might as well inspire and attract people to attend.....this is what SUNCORP Stadium does to the people of brisbane. Its the largest structure in the city, it dominates yet is not out of place in your vision, its atmosphere is a magnet and its easy to get to; when you get there you have a great view no matter where you sit....so you dont miss out and attending is a rich experience....it makes people want to attend again, as ANZ could never hope to do.

At worst, it must be a modern suburban ground thats nearly all seated.

To get this inspiration you must think monolithic structures like stone henge. And there must be an aura...look at the mets new stadium to see what i mean. Integration and awe....central to a community....a naturally thought of gathering place thats easy to reach.

Things we can do in the meantime. Well people must think along the lines of attendance. You must think attendance to get attendance, and you must think positively. Cater to people. Help them attend. They need help to attend. Lifes complex, make attending easy.

1. Have an alchohol free sections within the ground. I dont know at how many venues this is already done, but the Broncos is one of them. There is not a huge area set aside, I'd think it equates to just a few thousand seats - maybe 5,000. Yet you can bring your young family to this area and not worry about being hasseled by drunkeness. This is an INCENTIVE for ATTENDANCE. Alcholism is a DETERENT. It doesnt matter if your stadium has an unfortunate hill, areas can be cordoned off. This is important for families where dad doesnt want to drink at the game (it happens - a lot)

2. No smoking inside the ground. Or at the least, smokers confined to one section only. This is an incentive for the ever growing non-smoking population to attend matches. Having smoke blown in your face if you dont smoke is not only rude, it makes the occasion less enjoyable and makes you want to get away - and even stay away.


3. Family friendly ticket pricing. The cost to goto matches is rediculous. One of my long beefs with sydney is that there are too many teams; therefore there are too many matches for the population to be divided amongst over the coarse of a year. It gets hard if you like to goto 5-10 games a year when the prices are so high. Its not a favorable situation for Rugby League to have so many games on in such a small area over the year....one must expect crowds to suffer. They dont want to cut the teams, which I'd like to see happen for obvious reasons....they dont want to lessen the matches, to which i can see the point even if the need to do so remains, but there is one thing thats easily done. To aleviate the problem, a Family Friendly ticket pricing scheme needs to be done. And I mean a REAL ONE!!! Thats 2 adults and 3-4 children.....hey, the marketing guys might cringe, but if your goal is to maximise the number of people at a game (when you make less money from tickets than you do from sponsors ATM), let a 2 child family have 2 friends along, or a 3 child family have one along....we want to increase numbers.....for a family class them as a group, and allow them to get in for SUBstantially cheaper. We want to encourage a group experience, and families are the place to start. The package must be very attractive. We'd rather numbers over revenue for the time being at least.


4. Cater for family areas and minority supporters. Have away supporters section, have a families section, have a supporters group section if none of these things are done already.

5. Extend the away fans cheaper options. Give people access to packages. Allow them to create a tailored package for attendance to suit themselves. The more you attend the easier it is on your pocket.

6. Work with state, federal and local government to integrate transport into ticket prices. Do the same to create an efficnent transport network for your stadiums.

7. If your stadium is not that great, too far away, consider moving or building for future years.

8. Get rid of hills/limit hills. I always smile when i see a hill, but its not fond memories. Its a smile of "why oh why". Why?!! From an attendance point of view, they suck. I know some of you like them, and we know all the supposed pros, but how about the cons.....at capacity you are squashed in like sardines, you have no control over where you sit, its cramped, you may get a crazy near you, your personal space is compromised, when people stand, you must stand, rain ruins a hill experience, they look bad on tv, they are cheap and nasty, they have no place in a modern sporting ground that is designed to maximise attendance. Minimise or lose hills altogether. It lacks many things that make attending a repeatable pastime.

9. For the Hill lovers, keep one ground, probably leichart (spelling) as a hill. This I see as a very good thing - not because of the lack of hills at other stadia, but because it adds to flavour, history, tradition....even if we dont need a lot of stadiums as such.

10. Market and co operation. Realise that low crowds is a problem that affects all sydney teams at some point. Budget for a marketing campain....have clubs lump money together and work together to advertise league and attendance...

11. Memberships.....market them! First you must make people aware they exist, then you must compel them to take out a membership. Let people tailor them and MAKE IT WORTH THEIR WHILE. Every league fan who attends more than 3 games a year should be a member...it should be the BEST way to enjoy the game and feel closer to your team. Give members the inside running on the best things. Members should be privileged and advantaged.

12. Attending should be a pleasant, fun, enjoyable experience for everyone. If screaming and hurling abuse is your thing - even swearing - there should be a section at the ground for you....if you want to take your family, you should be able to do so and not have it break the bank and there should be a spot at the ground tailored to you. If you want to drink and smoke, go ahead, you should have sections...and if you dont want to drink or smoke, then you should be spared from it.

13. Bars where one can watch the game from. A public bar in the ground where the game is eaisly viewed from. Such bars in America exist where the bar is on one level, and a long sloping floor is in front behind glass where the public can drink and watch a match. Ideas to get people to goto games and have a good time need to be creative.

14. Jumping castles are not suffiencient to boost crowds....these things are not focused on having people watch the game......we want to have people focused on the game, not doing some other activity inside the stadium....things that allow people to focus on the game easily and not be bothered are better than detracting activities and things.

15. Make cues easier to navigate and get through....even at Suncorp cues are long at peak times, yet the time wasted is minimised and you do get through quicker....

16. Toilets must be very good and Bars must be very good. A big point tacked onto the end of this....but facilities must be high quality and effiecient. A fibro stand at Cronulla makes me never want to go back there. I frequent Suncorp and thought I was at the ekka in 1984. The year is 2007. 20 years! Lots has changed and so to must our stadia.

17. The list goes on. I cant believe clubs have left this so long. I fear that for some things, clubs will have to heavily upgrade their stadiums. I have barely scratched the surface.

Maximise attendance at all costs and have people focus on league more. Thats how you build a game-dynasty. Make the stadia attractive, efficient and awe inspiring, make getting to them easy, make watching the game live pleasurable again and light on the hip pocket, and make it a rich and rewarding experience all round.

Hills have no place in any of that, except at one super traditional stadium set aside for that kind of thing. That makes it an addition, not a detraction.
 

petetheileet

First Grade
Messages
5,605
dont think that is the problem, i spend most of my games at win or kogarah and cant remember the last time one of those grounds was at less than 80% full when i was there, Leichardt, brookie all got shabby stadiums and hills and the booze flows heavily there..look to the roosters and bunnies for the sh*thouse crowds and they have arguably the best venue in Sydney.

The venues are definitely not the problem. I mean in all seriousness how far do you you think the broncos fans would stretch if their city had 8 or 9 teams. The problem is lack of simple support and promotion and the fact that it can cost you 100 bux for a night or afternoon out.
 

ShineDog

Juniors
Messages
934
ToiletDuck said:
I think we need to face facts here people. The truth is league in Sydney is often played at substandard remote suburban venues that are often populated by aggressive drunken bogans. I'm as big a league fan as you can get but thats how it is. We cant capture the casual fan when this kind of environment exists at games. Compare it to Brisbane - top class stadium with great facilities and infrastructure. AFL smashes us on crowd figures, because they know how to draw people through the gates. Sure we smash them on tv ratings, but seeing half empty stadiums does nothing for the credibility of our game. I think a lot of neutral sports fans and families really like league as a spectacle, yet are put off by the "bogan factor" and the impression of the game as a lower class and unfashionable sport (especially conpared to AFL). The way it is portrayed in the media is testament to that, with players being dragged through the mud for things that AFL poofs get away with every day of the week, and reports of crowd violence. But these same people love watching the sport on tv, they just cant bring themselves to go to the ground. What we need to do is change that.

I think the first step is to take away the alcohol. If you need to get smashed at the footy to have a good time then piss off, you're not a true fan of the game. Yes that punishes the responsible people who may want to enjoy a couple of quiet drinks, but on the whole it would be better if alcohol was banned outright. Crowd trouble would reduce to zero, and the environment would be far more family-friendly. We might lose a few tools whose main reason for turning up is to get drunk and rowdy, but i'd say its worth it. We've all seen the detrimental effects that packs of idiots can have on other people's enjoyment of the game.

Then we need to take a long hard look at the quality of venues. We've read the reports in other threads of sh*t facilities at Brookvale etc. Maybe others could share their experiences. Oh yeah, and saying "harden up" is not going to help bring in the crowds that should be the lifeblood of the game.

Your thoughts...

Play all games in QLD where the fans give a f*#k .
Play the Grand Final at Suncorp....it is the NRL not the NSWRL.
 

ToiletDuck

Juniors
Messages
295
Along with promoting good value memberships family ticketing packages are a good idea, i'm not sure what currently exists with regard to that. The more kids you can get to the games the better, because when they grow up they'll be paying adults who in turn will bring along their friends and families.
 

Lockyer4President!

First Grade
Messages
7,975
ShineDog said:
Play all games in QLD where the fans give a f*#k .
Play the Grand Final at Suncorp....it is the NRL not the NSWRL.
I think that's way down the list mate, it's not really an issue either as long as Sydney keeps getting 80,000+ to the GF. I'd much rather host a semi final and some other finals games instead of the GF.
 

ShineDog

Juniors
Messages
934
Lockyer4President! said:
I think that's way down the list mate, it's not really an issue either as long as Sydney keeps getting 80,000+ to the GF. I'd much rather host a semi final and some other finals games instead of the GF.


I get it , you have moved from Sydney to QLD.
Makes a whole lot of sense.:lol:
 

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