The Rumours Thread

[True_Believer]

Oddly enough, Sloan isn't the worst FB defender in the comp. I saw a stat somewhere that there are three FB's with worse defensive records. All three happen to be seen as great attacking players. It's obviously true that our line is easily broken, so our FB faces more defensive challenges than normal. It's also a fact that a lot of teams adopt the 'let the ball bounce' tactic these days. Despite all of this though, if Sloan wants to be a great FB he's going to have to develop as a fearsome defender, a freak under the high ball and a great reader of the attack so that he comes into the line when the opportunity is there. At this stage in his development he has a long way to go on all of these. Hopefully the coaching staff nail it and he becomes the great player we all envision.

Who are the 3 players that have a worse defensive record?

 

[since77]

How would you describe both his misses on a Jason Saab… not sure the forward can help him there.

Terrible. Of course. Go back and read everything I said.

 

[Old Timer]

Of course. Go back and actually read what I said. First sentence literally said he had issues with his defence. Blind as well as old are we?

Did you not say this as you tried to mount some sort of defense for Sloan's lack of ability to tackle in given situations?

"Sloan misses a crap load of tackles he should never have to be making if the rest of the team did its job even vaguely competently."

I simply asked what about the tackles he should make or are they as a result of our week forwards as well and therefore acceptable misses?

His highlight reel of misses tackles will show a plethora of missed side on tackles when he clearly got to the man and had him on the sideline.

He is clearly not up to it but will no doubt continue to cloud the judgement of people who love to watch him with ball in hand and turn a blind eye to the rest of the job.

Dufty / Widdop?

Anyway, none of your concern after the next 5 weeks

Boy you're really starting to struggle now because you are quoting a Mc Fookknuckle strategy as if it is some erstwhile coaching method to be repeated FMD that would be a first.

The throwaway line re 5 weeks doesn't excuse your very poor analogies.

 

[Dorothy the Winowhore]

Mary has proven to be a dud head coach, agreed.....but certainly still better than some. How many NRL games have you coached, seeing you think you know better than him.

And that throwaway line is one of the reasons I am so looking forward to seasons 2024 and onward...under FTF and no GOF (Grumpy Old Fart). Don't take that away from me....I beg of you

 

[redVinme]

Who are the 3 players that have a worse defensive record?

I know you didn't ask me but I know Walsh and Kennedy are 2. Can't recall the third

 

[Illusion]

I know you didn't ask me but I know Walsh and Kennedy are 2. Can't recall the third

If true then they get away with it , as it doesn't stand out as much when their teams are higher up the ladder ....... Just on Sloan he IMO should have taken Saab , he had him lined up , but went into the tackle with no drive or Mongrel ......

 

[Dragonslayer]

Although this is the "rumours" thread, I will add my thoughts on Sloan.

Simply put. You can't coach heart. If you fear something it's hard to let it go, especially when it's in your face constantly.

Sloan rarely, if any time, go low to tackle, it's always above the waist and prefers the arm grab bring down. Of course going low comes with severe injuries if not executed correctly, hence the fear.

In saying that, he does represent our only real X factor in attack, probably only Lomax can be close on recent games.

All fullbacks, Tedesco included, drop bombs, however, once your technique fails you, as I believe the case with Sloan, you become fearful of them,hence you drop more than you take (especially under pressure) or its more convenient to let it bounce.

Persist, probably, for another season under a better coaching setup. After that, then re-exMine where he's at as his contract is up next year.

 

[redVinme]

If true then they get away with it , as it doesn't stand out as much when their teams are higher up the ladder ....... Just on Sloan he IMO should have taken Saab , he had him lined up , but went into the tackle with no drive or Mongrel ......

Well yeh, they also have less practice haha.

He absolutely should have and he is still tentative unfortunately.

The natural talent is there. I think flanno will work out quickly whether there is more commitment and aggression inside Sloan. Otherwise he will be wing or out.

 

[True_Believer]

If true then they get away with it , as it doesn't stand out as much when their teams are higher up the ladder ....... Just on Sloan he IMO should have taken Saab , he had him lined up , but went into the tackle with no drive or Mongrel ......

There's been a number of similar situations - tackles that should have been made. I think there was a game he played last year on the wing - I can't remember the opposition player but he essentially put his hand out and Sloan just bounced off it like a rubber ball. It was a great example of a low effort ineffective tackle. It looked like someone threw a paper cup at the attacking player.

Having said that, there have been some good tackles that he's made. But it's almost like all the planets have to align for him to effect one of those tackles. He's obviously got talent but he's got a lot of development to go and I'm not sure we can support him in the fullback position while he develops. And I don't think he's right for the wing either. Given his reluctance to put his body on the line, run at the line with vigour and take the hard carries, then it's either fullback or nothing. And at the moment, at least in my opinion, he's just not cutting it. One good attacking game here and there doesn't help us as a team achieve the consistency we need.

 

[Old Timer]

Mary has proven to be a dud head coach, agreed.....but certainly still better than some. How many NRL games have you coached, seeing you think you know better than him.

And that throwaway line is one of the reasons I am so looking forward to seasons 2024 and onward...under FTF and no GOF (Grumpy Old Fart). Don't take that away from me....I beg of you

LOL at you all fired up thinking that Sloan will make it, Mc Fookknuckle has credibility and that FTF is making a big difference.

Sloan is a dud in everything other than running in open space in attack and a bit of vision with ball in hand.

Mc Fookknuckle was completely incompetent at all levels and perhaps you recall how successful the strategy of Widdop to FB was including the major injury to our best attacking half and how quickly it all spiraled out of control with that master stroke.

FTF is simply doing the smoke and mirrors illusion trick for the BOD and keeping the seat warm for Dean. Big talk coming from his media buddies and Sele now being talked up as almost a coup signing.

But good for you as you are having none of it and think that positivity far outweighs objectivity and a couple of years is acceptable to get to wherever it is that we end up.

I well may be old and may not have coached at NRL level but I have followed this club for over 60 years and am well accustomed to its ways and I can assure you at no time in those 60+ years has the club been more devious in its dealings with the fans than it has in the last 10 years and now it's reaching its climax and the sun that you thinks is coming up is actually a false dawn.

You think somehow it is easy to be critical of something that has been part of your entire life well in fact its is hard to be brutally honest and face the reality of what Doust, Young, Harran, the Gordon's etc are willing to give and subject you to in their own self interest.

By the way don't forget to put your tooth in the jar beside the bed.

 

[Dorothy the Winowhore]

Hahaha, misery guts. 5 weeks can't come quick enough.

I was going to say enjoy your hiatus, but we all know that won't be possible.

 

[Dorothy the Winowhore]

Sorry to others here for my part in hijacking the rumours thread....it ends now for me. Not worth my time engaging with the miserable old prick. I will let him wallow in his own misery now.

 

[since77]

Although this is the "rumours" thread, I will add my thoughts on Sloan.

Simply put. You can't coach heart. If you fear something it's hard to let it go, especially when it's in your face constantly.

Sloan rarely, if any time, go low to tackle, it's always above the waist and prefers the arm grab bring down. Of course going low comes with severe injuries if not executed correctly, hence the fear.

In saying that, he does represent our only real X factor in attack, probably only Lomax can be close on recent games.

All fullbacks, Tedesco included, drop bombs, however, once your technique fails you, as I believe the case with Sloan, you become fearful of them,hence you drop more than you take (especially under pressure) or its more convenient to let it bounce.

Persist, probably, for another season under a better coaching setup. After that, then re-exMine where he's at as his contract is up next year.

As long as Sloan is defending poorly and making poor decisions regarding catching kicks on the full he’s going to cop some justified criticism. Where this criticism is a bit misguided is when many people on this forum forget the poor kid almost literally went straight from SG ball to first grade due to COVID sandwiched by a confidence shattering stint in reserve grade courtesy of the worst coach in the club’s history.
Sloan is one of those rare players that supposedly has those rare and magical attacking gifts that “can’t be coached”. And yes massive deficiencies in defence currently. To me it stands to reason however that his flaws CAN be coached and improved upon. Anyone here reckon Wayne Bennett wouldn’t be able to turn Sloan around?
Anyone who has watched this team play for the last X amount of years can see that this is a group of players who lack any competent level of basic coaching in the fundamentals of the game. It’s across the board, not just Sloan. No player’s weaknesses or overall games have improved, with maybe the extremely recent exception of Lomax since Griffin was booted out.
Maybe in ‘24 when we finally have an NRL quality coach those (very) rough edges of Sloan can be improved upon. And if there’s no improvement in the early parts of ‘24 then yes of course his spot in the team would need to be re-examined. I think some of the fan’s favourite whipping boys deserve at least a small chance with proper coaching before we draw a line through them.

 

[Mojo]

I know you didn't ask me but I know Walsh and Kennedy are 2. Can't recall the third

Make of it what you will.

Ok. Stats aren't all there is to it of course but, just for fun, I've calculated missed tackles as a percentage of all tackles attempted, made and missed - tackle efficiency if you like. The higher the number, the less efficient. Sloan's up there for inefficiency but he's not the worst.

210D. Watene-Zelezniak(WAR)	36.2​
175R. Walsh(BRI)	31.6​
291T. Trbojevic(MAN)	28.0​
291L. Miller(NEW)	27.5​
156T. Sloan(STI)	25.5​
104S. Cobbo(BRI)	25.2​
137R. Garrick(MAN)	23.9​
156K. Ponga(NEW)	23.4​
156J. Rapana(CBR)	22.2​
185W. Kennedy(CRO)	21.3​
0H. Perham(CBY)	20.8​
137S. Russell(PAR)	20.4​
39J. Averillo(CBY)	18.9​
291J. Tedesco(SYD)	18.7​
175S. Drinkwater(NQL)	18.2​
218C. Gutherson(PAR)	17.9​
J. Manu(SYD)	17.6​
270J. Bula(WST)	17.0​
255S. Kris(CBR)	17.0​
243D. Edwards(PEN)	16.4​
167J. Campbell(GLD)	15.9​
356L. Mitchell(SOU)	15.9​
83K. Nikorima(DOL)	14.9​
243H. Tabuai-Fidow(DOL)	14.5​
291N. Meaney(MEL)	14.4​
37C. Munster(MEL)	13.9​
306C. Nicoll-Klokstad(WAR)	12.9​
356A. Brimson(GLD)	11.3​

and this is their error count :

175R. Walsh(BRI)	38
175S. Drinkwater(NQL)	24
104S. Cobbo(BRI)	23
218C. Gutherson(PAR)	23
291L. Miller(NEW)	19
291T. Trbojevic(MAN)	17
156T. Sloan(STI)	17
0H. Perham(CBY)	17
255S. Kris(CBR)	17
243D. Edwards(PEN)	17
J. Manu(SYD)	16
243H. Tabuai-Fidow(DOL)	16
156J. Rapana(CBR)	15
270J. Bula(WST)	15
291N. Meaney(MEL)	15
137R. Garrick(MAN)	14
167J. Campbell(GLD)	14
306C. Nicoll-Klokstad(WAR)	13
156K. Ponga(NEW)	12
185W. Kennedy(CRO)	12
356A. Brimson(GLD)	12
210D. Watene-Zelezniak(WAR)	11
39J. Averillo(CBY)	11
83K. Nikorima(DOL)	11
137S. Russell(PAR)	10
291J. Tedesco(SYD)	9
356L. Mitchell(SOU)	8
37C. Munster(MEL)	7

 

[Mojo]

If true then they get away with it , as it doesn't stand out as much when their teams are higher up the ladder ....... Just on Sloan he IMO should have taken Saab , he had him lined up , but went into the tackle with no drive or Mongrel ......

Agree. It's really a qualitative thing - it's how 'badly' a tackle is missed - some guys get smashed trying - others just make really poor efforts.

 

[redVinme]

Make of it what you will.

Ok. Stats aren't all there is to it of course but, just for fun, I've calculated missed tackles as a percentage of all tackles attempted, made and missed - tackle efficiency if you like. The higher the number, the less efficient. Sloan's up there for inefficiency but he's not the worst.

210D. Watene-Zelezniak(WAR)	36.2​
175R. Walsh(BRI)	31.6​
291T. Trbojevic(MAN)	28.0​
291L. Miller(NEW)	27.5​
156T. Sloan(STI)	25.5​
104S. Cobbo(BRI)	25.2​
137R. Garrick(MAN)	23.9​
156K. Ponga(NEW)	23.4​
156J. Rapana(CBR)	22.2​
185W. Kennedy(CRO)	21.3​
0H. Perham(CBY)	20.8​
137S. Russell(PAR)	20.4​
39J. Averillo(CBY)	18.9​
291J. Tedesco(SYD)	18.7​
175S. Drinkwater(NQL)	18.2​
218C. Gutherson(PAR)	17.9​
J. Manu(SYD)	17.6​
270J. Bula(WST)	17.0​
255S. Kris(CBR)	17.0​
243D. Edwards(PEN)	16.4​
167J. Campbell(GLD)	15.9​
356L. Mitchell(SOU)	15.9​
83K. Nikorima(DOL)	14.9​
243H. Tabuai-Fidow(DOL)	14.5​
291N. Meaney(MEL)	14.4​
37C. Munster(MEL)	13.9​
306C. Nicoll-Klokstad(WAR)	12.9​
356A. Brimson(GLD)	11.3​

and this is their error count :

175R. Walsh(BRI)	38
175S. Drinkwater(NQL)	24
104S. Cobbo(BRI)	23
218C. Gutherson(PAR)	23
291L. Miller(NEW)	19
291T. Trbojevic(MAN)	17
156T. Sloan(STI)	17
0H. Perham(CBY)	17
255S. Kris(CBR)	17
243D. Edwards(PEN)	17
J. Manu(SYD)	16
243H. Tabuai-Fidow(DOL)	16
156J. Rapana(CBR)	15
270J. Bula(WST)	15
291N. Meaney(MEL)	15
137R. Garrick(MAN)	14
167J. Campbell(GLD)	14
306C. Nicoll-Klokstad(WAR)	13
156K. Ponga(NEW)	12
185W. Kennedy(CRO)	12
356A. Brimson(GLD)	12
210D. Watene-Zelezniak(WAR)	11
39J. Averillo(CBY)	11
83K. Nikorima(DOL)	11
137S. Russell(PAR)	10
291J. Tedesco(SYD)	9
356L. Mitchell(SOU)	8
37C. Munster(MEL)	7

That's awesome thanks for posting.

Some very interesting nuggets in there that's for sure.

 

[I'm Hornby]

Yep that’s definitely an issue too. I have no idea why the coaching staff aren’t drilling this skill into him for large chunks of each training week.

Might be to do with the fact that fullbacks in NRL are expected to learn to contest the high ball and put their body on the line in junior football, it isn't a skill that gets coached at NRL level.

 

[possm]

One of the major problems i see esp in the NRL is players and managers having too much of a say
Players demanding a place in the team or else they walk is common today
In regards to Sullivan i have watched him throughout the early part of his career till now , and it has been littered with on going injury and rare first grade appearances
Was he promised a first grade spot with former coach or football manager ?
i dont know , only those close to him would
Does he deserve a regular NRL spot in place of our Captain and arguably our best player who would then have to move to 9 to accommodate Sullivan at 7 ?
On form alone NO he doesnt...Potential wise YES he does , but in thefair dinkum dept , you dont pick players on potential
I would love to see Sullivan thumb his nose at the Club , STAY , and fight his way into the First Grade side with 5 star performances they cant deny

I would love to see those players who don't want to stay, to ask for their contract to be ripped up and then walk. Maybe only then we will see a team that want to play for the Dragons.

There needs to be roster change for sure and we need the salary cap to replace those who want to leave. Flanno is on the right track in saying if he releases players before the contract end date:
1. He will not pay anything towards the salary of the player once they leave.
2. If players are not willing to play to their full potential or value, he would rather they leave.

We need to clean out those who are not of value to the club and resist recruiting journeymen ever again.

Just buy or promote the best 17 you can under the cap and then backfill with our local juniors.

 

[Old Timer]

Rumour has it that there are big changes a foot

Under Hook according to this place.

Sullivan under-utilised and not given a go.
Amone over utilised and should have been dropped for Sullivan.
Sloan not given 100% backing and not trusted to improve.
Kerr not given a fair go.
Hunt pandered to and listened to far too much.
Too many average & depth signings.

Since Flim Flam Flanno was in the frame

Sullivan told he is free to look elsewhere.
Amone still being picked and is a higher priority than Sullivan
Lomax told that he will do pre-season training in the full back role and is in consideration for the position.
Kerr let go.
Hunt was gone and bagging the club now is part of the forward planning with the coach and remains captain.
Hame Sele our 1st signing and for 3 years.

The difference is staggering.

EDIT:
Oops almost forgot the biggest difference

Under Hook
Dean Young gone

Under Flim Flam Flanno
Dean Young Back

That indeed is the change that everyone was hoping for.

 

[possm]

I would love to see those players who don't want to stay, to ask for their contract to be ripped up and then walk. Maybe only then we will see a team that want to play for the Dragons.

There needs to be roster change for sure and we need the salary cap to replace those who want to leave. Flanno is on the right track in saying if he releases players before the contract end date:
1. He will not pay anything towards the salary of the player once they leave.
2. If players are not willing to play to their full potential or value, he would rather they leave.

We need to clean out those who are not of value to the club and resist recruiting journeymen ever again.

Just buy or promote the best 17 you can under the cap and then backfill with our local juniors.

I believe that most of the problems associated with the performance of our players will be solved in this next off-season. Flanno will have them all fit or on their way out the door. My tip is the following players will be super fit and placed in our top 13:

1. Lomax
2. Sloan
3. Matt Feagai
4. Suli
5. Ravalawa
6. Amone
7. Sullivan
8. Tino
9. K Flannagan
10. De Belin
11. T Couchman
12. New edge forward
13. New lock

Gone
Hunt 1m
Bird 550k
Su'A 600k
Burns 350k
Musgrove 350k
BMM 350k
Fuimaono 400k
Ramsey 250k