The Rumours Thread

[blue bags]

I doubt that they


hey but he did win 1 finals game in 7 years !!

and he was only a win and 80 mins away from a GF according to the peanut

82 mins from a grand final, dragons were leading, rabbits kicked 3 field goals, which is near impossible, and very freaky

 

[George Sancti]

https://www.nrl.com/operations/
Hi George and Gareth

Hopefully, this explains TPA's.

Thanks Dragon Dave.

So according to the NRL a third party agreements only apply to a player’s intellectual property e.g. an endorsement, appearance, work of art or literary product which may be subject to copyright. Therefore any player could be appointed by a third party to watch the dog or some other menial task, get paid $100K and not have to declare or register anything anything.

Is that how you see it?

 

[blacksafake]

I just emailed Webb telling him to disregard this email.

If he’s as smart as they say he is he already had

 

[jak]

He would undoubtedly know jak . However I am just wondering whether or not Uncle Nick faxed all of the rorters blueprint to the Broncos in the first place - or did he purposely omit a few pages ?

the later

 

[Phantom V]

Wasn't sure where to post this, apologies that it isn't a rumour but is anyone else enjoying the absolute and total destruction of the Brisbane Broncos?
Looks like they can add salary cap cheats to the list of disasters of 2020.
Young Pangai Junior is making some noise about TPAs he's owed on his way out the door.
Hey Alfie! Broncos can't play! And you're cheats!

Well said Crush. I was thinking the same thing. I’ll never forget the way that midget carried on after those 90s grand finals. Imagine the 3rd party deals in that squad!! Even the roosters would’ve been envious. No sympathy here. Karmas a bitch

 

[Phantom V]

Not sure about him.
On one hand I think he’s a good coach but have read too many stories about his poor man management skills as well as his history of his sides poor attacking record.
If this is so & young is assistant who’s going to look after the attack.

I agree Gareth. I’m not sold yet. I’ve heard him talk and he comes across really well and seems to have a good knowledge of the game, but so do a bunch of others. The top line coaches are the ones that have that balance of discipline and man management and the ability to get their players to perform week in week out. I’m not sure the old school approach works with the modern day footballer.

 

[Dragon David]

Thanks Dragon Dave.

So according to the NRL a third party agreements only apply to a player’s intellectual property e.g. an endorsement, appearance, work of art or literary product which may be subject to copyright. Therefore any player could be appointed by a third party to watch the dog or some other menial task, get paid $100K and not have to declare or register anything anything.

Is that how you see it?

Yes, it is!

Phil Gould wrote a good article for the SMH on payments and third party agreements when he was GM at Penrith which is interesting so I have attached this - https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/wh...l-clubs-must-be-embraced-20160312-gnhhi5.html for all to read if not already seen.

 

[brissiedragon]

Yes, it is!

Phil Gould wrote a good article for the SMH on payments and third party agreements when he was GM at Penrith which is interesting so I have attached this - https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/wh...l-clubs-must-be-embraced-20160312-gnhhi5.html for all to read if not already seen.

I like Goulds comment
"The matter needs to be discussed. A room full of smart people talking about these issues can produce a solution that will benefit every NRL club and the game of rugby league into the future. Then again, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe no one wants to talk about it."

I'm sure the usual suspect clubs are happy with the status quo as it enables them to assemble a top class side. Melbourne were caught out doing extra payments to players and were stripped of two premierships. They got caught out. The moral is keep extra payments quiet. When TPJ claims that he hasnt been paid an unregistered TPA by Brisbane then it is obvious that some clubs are playing smarter than other clubs. Sadly, it is all legal and the clubs with rich benefactors benefit the most.

 

[Mjab]

The solution is not to adjust rules and "salary caps" etc

If you seriously want a level playing field players need to be allocated a value by a panel of "experts"
1 from each club
panel allocate a player a value based on various factors incl are they SOO recently, other rep things etc and what their relative worth is
Massive Discount local juniors your club has paid for their development or eg 8-10 year players long service
They set a nominal amount for each club and they cannot go over that.

A true independant panel decides the value
this is not how it works at the moment.

tedesco is not a $600K player he is a $1m player , same Keary etc . This is what the rorters and others do. Undervalue the players contract and massive TPP's outside
In the end it doesnt matter what the club wants to pay the player, whatever the club wants in the end because thats what they do now

This absolutely however stops clubs from having imported star rosters eg tedesco cronc keary JWH, etc etc etc in the same roosters team , they would not fit under the strict cap, they would have to release players to a market place unless they developed those players and you would get a better distribution of talent at least

 

[Dr Fruitbasket Returns]

i surely can't be the only one who cringes at this kind of thing. Griffin having the same ceiling as Mary, now there's a laugh. Only have to compare the win percentage despite worse rosters to find the exact point one should stop reading.

Hey homes, I'm just expressing an opinion, no better or worse than anyone else's. I'm far from infallible. My points are these: First, Griffin is probably better than McGregor, that's a low bar, but his ceiling is likely still sixth rather than eighth - that doesn't move us to where I believe we should be aiming. Second, if Easts or Melbourne were in the market for a coach and there was a hotshot assistant elsewhere they would do whatever it took to get that hotshot - they wouldn't just have a mindset of "well, that's too tough".

If you ask me, going for Griffin is a different version of our player recruitment. We're just not even really trying for what might be the best available. He's a good solid coach, better than McGregor. A 56% win record and some meh seasons at other clubs show us what he is and what he's capable of. I want this club to win a premiership in the next five years. I don't think, based on sample, Griffin is that bloke.

 

[Dragon David]

Even though many of us have opinions that the Roosters are "rorters", we do know that they are a club that is being excellently run

Hey homes, I'm just expressing an opinion, no better or worse than anyone else's. I'm far from infallible. My points are these: First, Griffin is probably better than McGregor, that's a low bar, but his ceiling is likely still sixth rather than eighth - that doesn't move us to where I believe we should be aiming. Second, if Easts or Melbourne were in the market for a coach and there was a hotshot assistant elsewhere they would do whatever it took to get that hotshot - they wouldn't just have a mindset of "well, that's too tough".

If you ask me, going for Griffin is a different version of our player recruitment. We're just not even really trying for what might be the best available. He's a good solid coach, better than McGregor. A 56% win record and some meh seasons at other clubs show us what he is and what he's capable of. I want this club to win a premiership in the next five years. I don't think, based on sample, Griffin is that bloke.

Griffin may not be that bloke but the guy after him might be - whomever that will be requires a crystal ball. It could be Mary again, who knows?

 

[Dragon David]

Even though many of us have opinions that the Roosters are "rorters", we do know that they are a club that is being excellently run. Since 2013, except for 2016 when they came 15th, they have either made the grand final or preliminary finals. I'd say for the past 4 years, they have truly identified the players that they wanted to chase and basically got them.

With Mitch Aubusson leaving at the end of the year, I think that they would have someone to take his place, either within their current squad of players or they will be after someone with forward/back utility abilities. Like for like.

They generally would lose a couple of players and make up with replacements who are quite good to keep their cap on an even keel. They do not pay overs as they are a club that players would love to join.

The rumours of us getting certain coaches and players keep us amused. We need some of those rumours to be put into effect so that we can start to rebuild our club and have it structured in a way close to how the Roosters do it.

 

[Dr Fruitbasket Returns]

Even though many of us have opinions that the Roosters are "rorters", we do know that they are a club that is being excellently run

Griffin may not be that bloke but the guy after him might be - whomever that will be requires a crystal ball. It could be Mary again, who knows?

DD, you could be right and I think that's a reasonable way of looking at it. Here's what leaves me concerned about Griffin right now though. As a club, from top to bottom, we are at best a mediocrity. McGregor played a big and visible role in getting us to that point, but there were plenty of other culprits. Our recruitment and retention strategy has been based on throwing money at a few second tier targets and supporting them with reserve graders. We can't manipulate TPAs to attract first tier talent. We've had no coaching structure in place beyond McGregor (and before him) Price to nurture emerging younger talent. We've got a board that is complacent, parochial and lacking the skillset to run a contemporary professional sports marketing business. We've got a new CEO who, whatever talents he may develop over time, is not currently a networked leader or mover and shaker within the NRL or at Fox or Nine.

None of those other factors are going to change. So the new coach must be exceptional - not only as the coach of a team, but as a personality capable of rising above a whole lot of other challenges and having the force of will to create a completely different culture. Mate, could you see that in Anthony Griffin based on his record? I know there aren't many Wayne Bennett's out there (Bennett in his prime). There may not be any. But I'm pretty sure Griffin isn't one.

Easy for me to whinge, I haven't got to find the bloke. But I go back to Easts and Melbourne, cheats and arseholes though they may be (and no one on this board hates Easts like I do). If either of them was in the market for a coach (a) they wouldn't be signing Griffin and (b) if either of them really wanted to poach Fitzgibbon and Ryles, they'd poach Fitzgibbon or Ryles.

I reckon they'd both have a good and serious go at getting Flannagan's ban overturned rather than just making the enquiry and taking no for an answer. (I'm not necessarily saying Flanagan's the right man for the job, but he has won a premiership in the past five seasons which stands out on the CV).

 

[Old Timer]

IMO once the term "spine" came into vogue the situation of players breaking contracts and TPA's goy a whole lot worse.

The rumour around JAC wanting to play FB is a great example of a player who believes he contributes more than his fair share in respect of results and believes he is underpaid whilst others believe he merely "finishes" what others create.

So the "spine" is the place to be if you want the big $$$$ but once upon a time each and every player was worth what the club considered his true value was regardless of the position he played.

Player managers are more than complicit in creating this fiasco and now manipulate their players in and out of contracts whilst holding clubs to ransom as very often the player manager has a few players if not the coach also on his books.

I know some will raise the B Moz issue but it was my firm belief the Gasnier situation created a huge mess and players like Brett took cuts to get him back and they should have been rewarded for their contribution but instead the "you're a winger" scenario came to the fore so he said OK I'll play FB when all the while he was the best winger in the world (probably still is) and was well worth the upgrade whilst leaving him on the wing.

The Latrell Mitchell situation will end up a mess as he is a centre and probably one of the worlds best but he is hungry for $$$$.

I wonder what would happen if players like JAC & LM were told OK you are worth XXX as a winger and YYY as centre and if you make the FB position your own and meet the KPI's you are worth XXXX & YYYY however if you fail to deliver as a FB you will return to the wing and centre but on XX & YY.

Risk & reward with a downside for your arrogance if you fail.

It is also my belief that the under the table TPA's really started to gain momentum when clubs didn't want to lose wingers and centres etc and to keep them happy they got some brown paper bags, cars, extensions on their homes etc etc.

Get rid of the word "spine" and perhaps it will again put things in a proper perspective as to what players are actually worth.

 

[SGMax]

The solution is not to adjust rules and "salary caps" etc

If you seriously want a level playing field players need to be allocated a value by a panel of "experts"
1 from each club
panel allocate a player a value based on various factors incl are they SOO recently, other rep things etc and what their relative worth is
Massive Discount local juniors your club has paid for their development or eg 8-10 year players long service
They set a nominal amount for each club and they cannot go over that.

A true independant panel decides the value
this is not how it works at the moment.

tedesco is not a $600K player he is a $1m player , same Keary etc . This is what the rorters and others do. Undervalue the players contract and massive TPP's outside
In the end it doesnt matter what the club wants to pay the player, whatever the club wants in the end because thats what they do now

This absolutely however stops clubs from having imported star rosters eg tedesco cronc keary JWH, etc etc etc in the same roosters team , they would not fit under the strict cap, they would have to release players to a market place unless they developed those players and you would get a better distribution of talent at least

Great post Mjab, couldn't agree more.

I've been saying for years now that the NRL should set up a committee to value players on the market. Clubs then include that value in their cap regardless of how much they decide to pay them or how much they can or can't get in TPA's , envelopes, land, boats etc.
No need to audit payments and earnings....all irrelevant as they use the agreed valuation.

 

[George Sancti]

Yes, it is!

Phil Gould wrote a good article for the SMH on payments and third party agreements when he was GM at Penrith which is interesting so I have attached this - https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/wh...l-clubs-must-be-embraced-20160312-gnhhi5.html for all to read if not already seen.

If this is the case, then it is obvious how some clubs are getting around the TPA rules. They are simply ignoring them, and appointing the player on a service agreement. This would explain how the Rooster’s were reported to be comparatively low to other clubs in terms of total TPA value.

 

[redVinme]

If this is the case, then it is obvious how some clubs are getting around the TPA rules. They are simply ignoring them, and appointing the player on a service agreement. This would explain how the Rooster’s were reported to be comparatively low to other clubs in terms of total TPA value.

The roosters also have the luxury of having players/player getting third parties from the nrl. IE tedesco who gets a game ambassador TPA which isn't listed with the other figures. Cronk did too.

So not only do they get the pick of the players due to being so high profile they actually get a leg up from the nrl too. Smh

 

[Dragon David]

DD, you could be right and I think that's a reasonable way of looking at it. Here's what leaves me concerned about Griffin right now though. As a club, from top to bottom, we are at best a mediocrity. McGregor played a big and visible role in getting us to that point, but there were plenty of other culprits. Our recruitment and retention strategy has been based on throwing money at a few second tier targets and supporting them with reserve graders. We can't manipulate TPAs to attract first tier talent. We've had no coaching structure in place beyond McGregor (and before him) Price to nurture emerging younger talent. We've got a board that is complacent, parochial and lacking the skillset to run a contemporary professional sports marketing business. We've got a new CEO who, whatever talents he may develop over time, is not currently a networked leader or mover and shaker within the NRL or at Fox or Nine.

None of those other factors are going to change. So the new coach must be exceptional - not only as the coach of a team, but as a personality capable of rising above a whole lot of other challenges and having the force of will to create a completely different culture. Mate, could you see that in Anthony Griffin based on his record? I know there aren't many Wayne Bennett's out there (Bennett in his prime). There may not be any. But I'm pretty sure Griffin isn't one.

Easy for me to whinge, I haven't got to find the bloke. But I go back to Easts and Melbourne, cheats and arseholes though they may be (and no one on this board hates Easts like I do). If either of them was in the market for a coach (a) they wouldn't be signing Griffin and (b) if either of them really wanted to poach Fitzgibbon and Ryles, they'd poach Fitzgibbon or Ryles.

I reckon they'd both have a good and serious go at getting Flannagan's ban overturned rather than just making the enquiry and taking no for an answer. (I'm not necessarily saying Flanagan's the right man for the job, but he has won a premiership in the past five seasons which stands out on the CV).

Nicely said and I agree neither the Roosters nor the Storm would be headhunting Griffin for the head coaches job at those clubs. That is unfortunately the difference between us and them and as Gordon Tallis said years ago, our board members are a pack of dinosaurs (I think he said that).

We do lack the personalities from the coach to the CEO and Andrew Gordon to make us noticed. Storm has Bellamy, Easts have Uncle Nick/Trent Robbo.

A much younger Bennett would be more of a standout for us, but I don't think as he is now.

I'd like to think that maybe it could be a Dean Young/Shane Flanagan 2021 then go flat out at "any cost" to get Bellamy for 2022 onwards. We nearly got him some years ago including Cronk. Flanagan can then apply for a head coach prior to 2022 elsewhere and/or if Bellamy is out of the question then Flanagan could then take over the head coach at the Dragons.

Things do point towards Griffin by the sounds of things, even to the extent that some of the players (Norman and Hunt) have already made comment about him.

Sorry, this isn't the right thread for my post but I've done it anyway.

 

[getsmarty]

Neil Henry throws hat in the ring to coach Dragons
Adrian Proszenko
August 27, 2020 — 7.30pm
Leave a comment

Neil Henry has emerged as the most experienced NRL coach with an interest in replacing Paul McGregor as St George Illawarra powerbrokers prepare to commence candidate interviews next week.

It has been another busy week on the coaching front, with the Gold Coast extending Justin Holbrook’s contract until the end of 2024 just as Brisbane parted company with Anthony Seibold. Five coaches have already been sacked this season and both the Dragons and Cowboys are yet to settle on replacements.

Fittler backs touted Dragons coaching plan
Signing Anthony Griffin and marking Dean Young as the long-term coach makes sense for the Dragons, Brad Fittler says.

North Queensland officials are in the process of conducting their second round of interviews, with Todd Payten, John Cartwright, Josh Hannay, Anthony Griffin and Shaun Wane jockeying for Paul Green’s job. Brisbane will soon commence the search for Seibold's replacement.

The Dragons will begin their first round of interviews next week, with candidates to present to the board via Zoom. Those in contention for the job include caretaker Dean Young, David Furner, Griffin, Kevin Walters and Laurie Daley.

The man on top of the wishlist, Craig Fitzgibbon, is unlikely to be available. Currently assisting Trent Robinson at the Roosters, Fitzgibbon has knocked back all previous approaches because of his loyalty to chairman Nick Politis.

Given he is a former Steelers and Dragons player completing an apprenticeship at the back-to-back premiers, the 43 year old is considered the perfect fit for the Red V. The Dragons will ask the question, but are expecting him to fulfil the final year of his contract with the tri-colours.

Neil Henry has an interest in coaching the Dragons.Credit:NRL Photos

Wayne Bennett is another potential option, although he has indicated he will honour the final year of his deal with South Sydney.

Henry could be the wildcard in the mix. The 59-year-old has overseen 248 NRL games during a decade-long head coaching career at Canberra, North Queensland and the Gold Coast. His teams have made five finals series during that time and he was a finalist for the Dally M coach of the year while at the Cowboys in 2011.

His NRL coaching career seemingly ended after losing a power struggle with Jarryd Hayne at the Titans. The club sacked Henry, only for Hayne to walk away shortly afterwards.


Henry could be an option for the Dragons given he wouldn’t command a huge pay cheque and would be happy to accept a relatively short-term deal, providing Young an experienced mentor he could take over from in coming seasons.

Young can continue to press his own claims in coming weeks. After overseeing a win against the Broncos in his first game in charge, his team faces the Gold Coast at home on Friday. A victory would keep alive the Dragons’ faint finals hopes.

"If we win every game, we’re a chance but that seems a fair way away at the moment," Young said.


https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/ne...he-ring-to-coach-dragons-20200827-p55pzv.html

 

[Gareth67]

Neil Henry throws hat in the ring to coach Dragons
Adrian Proszenko
August 27, 2020 — 7.30pm
Leave a comment

Neil Henry has emerged as the most experienced NRL coach with an interest in replacing Paul McGregor as St George Illawarra powerbrokers prepare to commence candidate interviews next week.

It has been another busy week on the coaching front, with the Gold Coast extending Justin Holbrook’s contract until the end of 2024 just as Brisbane parted company with Anthony Seibold. Five coaches have already been sacked this season and both the Dragons and Cowboys are yet to settle on replacements.

Fittler backs touted Dragons coaching plan
Signing Anthony Griffin and marking Dean Young as the long-term coach makes sense for the Dragons, Brad Fittler says.

North Queensland officials are in the process of conducting their second round of interviews, with Todd Payten, John Cartwright, Josh Hannay, Anthony Griffin and Shaun Wane jockeying for Paul Green’s job. Brisbane will soon commence the search for Seibold's replacement.

The Dragons will begin their first round of interviews next week, with candidates to present to the board via Zoom. Those in contention for the job include caretaker Dean Young, David Furner, Griffin, Kevin Walters and Laurie Daley.

The man on top of the wishlist, Craig Fitzgibbon, is unlikely to be available. Currently assisting Trent Robinson at the Roosters, Fitzgibbon has knocked back all previous approaches because of his loyalty to chairman Nick Politis.

Given he is a former Steelers and Dragons player completing an apprenticeship at the back-to-back premiers, the 43 year old is considered the perfect fit for the Red V. The Dragons will ask the question, but are expecting him to fulfil the final year of his contract with the tri-colours.

Neil Henry has an interest in coaching the Dragons.Credit:NRL Photos

Wayne Bennett is another potential option, although he has indicated he will honour the final year of his deal with South Sydney.

Henry could be the wildcard in the mix. The 59-year-old has overseen 248 NRL games during a decade-long head coaching career at Canberra, North Queensland and the Gold Coast. His teams have made five finals series during that time and he was a finalist for the Dally M coach of the year while at the Cowboys in 2011.

His NRL coaching career seemingly ended after losing a power struggle with Jarryd Hayne at the Titans. The club sacked Henry, only for Hayne to walk away shortly afterwards.


Henry could be an option for the Dragons given he wouldn’t command a huge pay cheque and would be happy to accept a relatively short-term deal, providing Young an experienced mentor he could take over from in coming seasons.

Young can continue to press his own claims in coming weeks. After overseeing a win against the Broncos in his first game in charge, his team faces the Gold Coast at home on Friday. A victory would keep alive the Dragons’ faint finals hopes.

"If we win every game, we’re a chance but that seems a fair way away at the moment," Young said.


https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/ne...he-ring-to-coach-dragons-20200827-p55pzv.html

Geeze H Chrust I wish that Freddy the Fiddler would keep his opinions to himself . It pusses me off when clowns such as he ( and I am not referring to his distinguished playing career ) throw their two-bobs worth in as to what direction a club should proceed .

He and a number of other of his media mates were the ones who backed our recently departed maestro to the hilt - all the way to the bottom of the competition ladder , therefore whatever comes out off his mouth should be taken with a grain of salt - or perhaps a BEX powder , whichever of the two is the handiest .