The troll cave

[Stan Dabovetherest]

By bizarre, I mean that I don't expect to find this sort of conversation on a Football related forum.

Considering we're all here to talk about Football and South Sydney, it's very strange that I find myself reading about people's views and experiences with sexuality.

Don't get me wrong... I have no problem with this sort of discussion and as a forum, we won't censor it, I just don't think this particular part of this forum is the place for it.

I think quite a few of you guys take this place a little bit too seriously and share a little too much here tbh. The reason I say this is that, in my experience (and I've been here for quite some time now), far, far more people come here to stir shit and troll others than they do to be open and honest and make genuine friends and with that in mind, this is definitely not the place for pouring out your heart or telling your life story.

The more personal stuff you put up here, the more others can use it against you and this is where a few of you (Rabbits20, I'm looking at you) have gotten into trouble. Particularly because some of you seem happy to put your views out there but then don't want to have to defend them when other people look to attack you over them. This is open internet and we have several thousand members. Two statements most certainly apply here -

1. If you publish your views here, someone else certainly won't agree with them and will want to challenge you over them. It's as simple as that.

2. If you publish your views here, someone may well agree with them but could well challenge you on them anyway because this is the internet and trolls live here.

So if you are sensitive about something, don't bring it up here and stay away from conversations about that particular subject.

My suggestion to you all is to back up a bit on the serious stuff in the open forum... At least in the Souths open forum anyway. If you want to debate peoples views and feelings on homosexuality, we have other areas in the forum for that (like 4C) or you can take it to PM or elsewhere.

If you follow that suggestion then you won't be challenged on your views on such things in this part of the forum and others who are sensitive about that particular subject won't find it discussed here, which is basically how a lot of the current problems around here began.

This is an open forum, what you publish here is out there in the world for everyone to see. You may sit behind an alias but people will still attack you relentlessly here if they think you are plain wrong.

If you can't handle that then remember that this is a football forum. Talk about football here. That is what the place is intended for.

Hi DKOR,

Thanks for your considered response.

I'll be the first to admit that these days I am an oversharer and I am well aware that some of the information I share might be used to troll me. Like you said, this is the internet and that is the home of trolls.

The sole reason I chose this forum to address this issue rather than PM's or 4C is that here is where the original content was posted, so I thought here was where it should be addressed. I really want this forum to be an inclusive place for all Rabbitoh fans, so I wanted everyone to know that most of us are not OK with this sort of hate speech.

This being said I didn't want to start the shitstorm we have seen, but as an optimist, am hopeful the frank discussions that are happening may lead to a better forum for all of us (you in particular). Naïve hope I know, but who knows, anything is possible.

I just hate the fact, that when we should all be discussing the exciting possibility of 22 (and I haven't forgotten the fact that you were consigning us to bottom 4 or wooden spoon early or pre-season) we are bogged down in petty arguments.

Anyway, I would not like your job DKOR, it's a thankless task and I respect you for doing it.

Cheers Stan.

 

[Stan Dabovetherest]

Alright man, I'll try to keep it simple so I don't get too ranty

I called his apology what it was. I don't think a sincere apology comes with a cheap shot implying he was right all along to be opposed to homosexual relationships/parenting.

As for your questions

1- Using logic to make someone feel shame over their poor behaviour is literally the best reason to fix it.

If they don't see the error of their ways and just try to hide it to keep the peace, it's going to re-emerge worse than before.

2- Yes. If someone isn't at the point of acknowledging their faults and wanting to work on them, Answer 1 is absolutely a good approach

3- Long term, yes. If people don't cave to his tantrums when he doesn't get his own way, he'll have to address the issue. Once he does that, he won't be getting into the same argument with half the forums.

Thank you for keeping it simple.

Simpletons like me prefer it that way.

You really did not answer Question ! properly IMHO. For a simpleton like me it was a bit obscure.

Are you saying that you have found shaming your clients, to be an effective method of helping them grow as people?

 

[Curns13]

Re-read your comments dude.

Also, not calling you a liar. A liar would be someone who realises they're being affected, then lies about it.

That's not what I've suggested at all.


Lashing out because you're frustrated won't hurt my feelings mate.

So you say I’m desperately sticking up for him, but cannot provide any evidence.

You’ve said I want you to lay off him, but have no evidence.

I am going to call you a liar (I hope the name calling doesn’t offend). You are full of shit. You make claims that you cannot and will not support. You are a hypocrit (again I apologise if this upsets you) who holds others to a higher degree of accountability than himself.

I’m not trying to hurt your feelings, I’m defending myself against your claims. If you can’t accept that your own behaviour might be the reason for someone’s opinion of you, perhaps some time on the couch might help you take responsibility for your actions.

 

[Curns13]

Re-read your comments dude.

Also, not calling you a liar. A liar would be someone who realises they're being affected, then lies about it.

That's not what I've suggested at all.


Lashing out because you're frustrated won't hurt my feelings mate.

And ‘Mr Evidence’ is lashing out? Who’s really the child here. You’re on an internet forum, grow up.

 

[Different kind of Rabbit]

Hi DKOR,

Thanks for your considered response.

I'll be the first to admit that these days I am an oversharer and I am well aware that some of the information I share might be used to troll me. Like you said, this is the internet and that is the home of trolls.

The sole reason I chose this forum to address this issue rather than PM's or 4C is that here is where the original content was posted, so I thought here was where it should be addressed. I really want this forum to be an inclusive place for all Rabbitoh fans, so I wanted everyone to know that most of us are not OK with this sort of hate speech.

This being said I didn't want to start the shitstorm we have seen, but as an optimist, am hopeful the frank discussions that are happening may lead to a better forum for all of us (you in particular). Naïve hope I know, but who knows, anything is possible.

I just hate the fact, that when we should all be discussing the exciting possibility of 22 (and I haven't forgotten the fact that you were consigning us to bottom 4 or wooden spoon early or pre-season) we are bogged down in petty arguments.

Anyway, I would not like your job DKOR, it's a thankless task and I respect you for doing it.

Cheers Stan.

I’m happy to throw my hand up and say I was wrong about our chances this season.

Never been so happy to be so wrong about something.

Seibold is a miracle worker. Simple as that.

I’m still not necessarily happy with how the changes went down but the results are the most important thing.

 

[Rabbitoad]

So you say I’m desperately sticking up for him, but cannot provide any evidence.

You’ve said I want you to lay off him, but have no evidence.

I am going to call you a liar (I hope the name calling doesn’t offend). You are full of shit. You make claims that you cannot and will not support. You are a hypocrit (again I apologise if this upsets you) who holds others to a higher degree of accountability than himself.

I’m not trying to hurt your feelings, I’m defending myself against your claims. If you can’t accept that your own behaviour might be the reason for someone’s opinion of you, perhaps some time on the couch might help you take responsibility for your actions.

Emotional response because you're insecure at the idea that your opinion has been manipulated.

Again, I don't get offended by emotionally driven name calling mate.

Didn't mean to hurt your feelings. Taking pity on someone is nothing to be ashamed of. It's actually a good quality in some scenarios.

Was just letting you know why I won't be taking pity on the kid.

You objected to my opinion, so I said you're welcome to disagree, but you couldn't handle that.

Again, I'm not going to keep repeating myself to desperately try to convince you I'm right. Especially when the mere idea of it has gotten you this upset.

Believe whatever you want (as I've suggested about ten times now)

 

[Rabbitoad]

Thank you for keeping it simple.

Simpletons like me prefer it that way.

You really did not answer Question ! properly IMHO. For a simpleton like me it was a bit obscure.

Are you saying that you have found shaming your clients, to be an effective method of helping them grow as people?

The "so I don't get too ranty" was meant to fix that, but in hindsight I worded that poorly.

Not implying you're a simpleton at all mate and I'm genuinely sorry if it came across that way.

Clients generally acknowledge that their behaviour needs work.

If they're struggling to get over that hump, explaining it logically so they can come to their own conclusion about how & why their behaviour is causing problems is a lot more effective than me trying to force it past their cognitive dissonance.

If people continue to call him on his bullshit, he'll kick and squeal for a while, but eventually he'll have to confront the issue and his behaviour will change for the better.

When I kept asking where he'd heard the rumours he was posting and questioned his outbursts about me asking in a logical way, he kicked and squealed for a while and then he stopped posting bullshit.

Not a coincidence man.

It works

 

[Curns13]

Emotional response because you're insecure at the idea that your opinion has been manipulated.

Again, I don't get offended by emotionally driven name calling mate.

Didn't mean to hurt your feelings. Taking pity on someone is nothing to be ashamed of. It's actually a good quality in some scenarios.

Was just letting you know why I won't be taking pity on the kid.

You objected to my opinion, so I said you're welcome to disagree, but you couldn't handle that.

Again, I'm not going to keep repeating myself to desperately try to convince you I'm right. Especially when the mere idea of it has gotten you this upset.

Believe whatever you want (as I've suggested about ten times now)

Still refusing to backup your claims with any evidence. Hopefully this discussion has exposed you for the poster you are: a liar, a hypocrit and childish. Perhaps the reason you spend so much of your time trying to improve R20 is because you see yourself in him. It would seem that you believe you share many qualities.

 

[Curns13]

The "so I don't get too ranty" was meant to fix that, but in hindsight I worded that poorly.

Not implying you're a simpleton at all mate and I'm genuinely sorry if it came across that way.

Clients generally acknowledge that their behaviour needs work.

If they're struggling to get over that hump, explaining it logically so they can come to their own conclusion about how & why their behaviour is causing problems is a lot more effective than me trying to force it past their cognitive dissonance.

If people continue to call him on his bullshit, he'll kick and squeal for a while, but eventually he'll have to confront the issue and his behaviour will change for the better.

When I kept asking where he'd heard the rumours he was posting and questioned his outbursts about me asking in a logical way, he kicked and squealed for a while and then he stopped posting bullshit.

Not a coincidence man.

It works

So if I keep asking you to explain your opinions of my thinking with evidence, you too will stop posting bullshit?

 

[Stan Dabovetherest]

As it says in Matthew 6:15 it is sinful to hate anyone for any reason, but then again it is also sinful to approve of someone that lives a morally inappropriate lifestyle.

Hey /southsport, I have always appreciated your input on here.

Since we're quoting Matthew though I have always loved this little ditsy from the very next chapter.

Matttthew 7:1 "“Do not judge, or you too will be judged.2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

I don't know about you, but I know I've often done things that were morally wrong. I try not too now, but I hope I will not be judged on them by such a high standard.

I would also say that I don't believe that being born gay is morally wrong. We cannot change who we are, and whilst when I was younger I thought that certain people chose to be gay. After witnessing my brothers come out, this was not their choice. They were born gay and struggled with this for many, many years.

I respect your right to disagree with this if you choose, but I know it as fact after many hours of conversation on the issue.

Cheers Stan.

 

[Rabbitoad]

Still refusing to backup your claims with any evidence. Hopefully this discussion has exposed you for the poster you are: a liar, a hypocrit and childish. Perhaps the reason you spend so much of your time trying to improve R20 is because you see yourself in him. It would seem that you believe you share many qualities.

I've given it, you just can't accept it.

All that exposes is how insecure my opinion made you feel.

So if I keep asking you to explain your opinions of my thinking with evidence, you too will stop posting bullshit?

Again, the emotional outbursts don't hurt my feelings mate.

They just make you look insecure.

 

[Curns13]

I've given it, you just can't accept it.

All that exposes is how insecure my opinion made you feel.

Again, the emotional outbursts don't hurt my feelings mate.

They just make you look insecure.

You have given no evidence, just more opinions. When I asked you for evidence, you told me to look at my posts. It isn’t my job to find you evidence to back up your posts.

Provide evidence or all it shows is how insecure you are about your posts. There is no evidence, so you are just posting bullshit. I can keep going around in circles as long as you like. Put up or shut up.

 

[Curns13]

Again, the emotional outbursts don't hurt my feelings mate.

They just make you look insecure.

Again, I’m not trying to hurt your feelings. How many times do you need to be told something before you understand it?

What emotional outbust? I pretty much repeated what you wrote word for word? Why is mine an emotional outbust but yours isn’t?

 

[Rabbitoad]

You have given no evidence, just more opinions. When I asked you for evidence, you told me to look at my posts. It isn’t my job to find you evidence to back up your posts.

Provide evidence or all it shows is how insecure you are about your posts. There is no evidence, so you are just posting bullshit. I can keep going around in circles as long as you like. Put up or shut up.

Oh my comment about you being insecure hit home, so you're trying to turn it around on me. Classic deflection mate. I could file you into a textbook with behaviour like this.

I pointed out that you didn't disagree with my criticisms of Fletch and that your only argument was that I should lay off him a bit.

I suggested that was coming from a place of pity and you got insecure and lost your shit, confirming it for me.

Which by the way, only my opinion. Which I said multiple times you were welcome to disagree with.

But you're too insecure to agree to disagree, so now you're desperately trying to discredit my opinion by refusing to acknowledge what I've said and resorting to ad hominem attacks.

You're going to kick and squeal until I agree with you because you can't handle me disagreeing with you.

Which, I mean come on. You can't seriously think that's going to work?

Do you know how many times I've seen someone lose their shit over something they weren't willing to accept?

 

[Curns13]

Oh my comment about you being insecure hit home, so you're trying to turn it around on me. Classic deflection mate. I could file you into a textbook with behaviour like this.

I pointed out that you didn't disagree with my criticisms of Fletch and that your only argument was that I should lay off him a bit.

I suggested that was coming from a place of pity and you got insecure and lost your shit, confirming it for me.

Which by the way, only my opinion. Which I said multiple times you were welcome to disagree with.

But you're too insecure to agree to disagree, so now you're desperately trying to discredit my opinion by refusing to acknowledge what I've said and resorting to ad hominem attacks.

You're going to kick and squeal until I agree with you because you can't handle me disagreeing with you.

Which, I mean come on. You can't seriously think that's going to work?

Do you know how many times I've seen someone lose their shit over something they weren't willing to accept?

Where are my arguements that you should lay off him? All lies and deception on your behalf. Still no evidence though.

And leave your bullshit psycho babble to yourself. I dont want you to agree with me. I want to produce even a shred of evidence that is fact, not opinion, that supports your claims.

Youre so full of shit and hopefully others might see that as well.

It might be too much info, but i’m lying in bed watching Netflicks next to my sleeping wife, not much kicking and screaming here. Your bullshit continues to spew onto the screen.

 

[Curns13]

Which, I mean come on. You can't seriously think that's going to work?

So your bullshit psycho babble is a brilliant idea to help R20, but it couldn’t possibly work on you. The arrogance is astounding.

 

[Stan Dabovetherest]

Clients generally acknowledge that their behaviour needs work.

If they're struggling to get over that hump, explaining it logically so they can come to their own conclusion about how & why their behaviour is causing problems is a lot more effective than me trying to force it past their cognitive dissonance.

So when you say clients generally acknowledge that their behaviour needs work, I'm assuming you have had at least one that doesn't. How practically have you dealt with case/ cases like these?

Surely it's not by shaming/ verbal intimidation?

I struggle to fathom how such a method would be effective.

 

[Rabbitoad]

Where are my arguements that you should lay off him? All lies and deception on your behalf. Still no evidence though.

And leave your bullshit psycho babble to yourself. I dont want you to agree with me. I want to produce even a shred of evidence that is fact, not opinion, that supports your claims.

Youre so full of shit and hopefully others might see that as well.

It might be too much info, but i’m lying in bed watching Netflicks next to my sleeping wife, not much kicking and screaming here. Your bullshit continues to spew onto the screen.

You're literally sulking about not agreeing with my opinion.

It's pretty simple man. Either

1- You disagreed with my criticisms of Fletch, but weren't smart enough to form a logical argument against them for the entire length of this conversation.

2- You're weak and cave to tantrums because they get annoying and that's easier than dealing with them like an adult

Or

3- You felt some sympathy for a dude that was clearly upset

I gave you the benefit of the doubt out of those three options because you seemed like you were coming from a good place initially, but feel free to choose whichever one of those that makes you feel the least insecure.

 

[Curns13]

You're literally sulking about not agreeing with my opinion.

It's pretty simple man. Either

1- You disagreed with my criticisms of Fletch, but weren't smart enough to form a logical argument against them for the entire length of this conversation.

2- You're weak and cave to tantrums because they get annoying and that's easier than dealing with them like an adult

Or

3- You felt some sympathy for a dude that was clearly upset

I gave you the benefit of the doubt out of those three options because you seemed like you were coming from a good place initially, but feel free to choose whichever one of those that makes you feel the least insecure.

Thing is I think you’re an arsehole for your actions. You are acting like an arsehole, therefore I believe you are an arsehole. What you say to R20 doesn’t matter in the slightest.

 

[Curns13]

So when you say clients generally acknowledge that their behaviour needs work, I'm assuming you have had at least one that doesn't. How practically have you dealt with case/ cases like these?

Surely it's not by shaming/ verbal intimidation?

I struggle to fathom how such a method would be effective.

Rabbitoad is a very busy boy. R20, Itsa and Southy from what I’ve read all think he’s a bully. I think he’s a pain in the arse, an arsehole and a lying, hypocrtical child and you seem to be questioning his psychology methods. He’s fighting battles on many fronts isn’t he. Perhaps he’s starting to realise not everyone else is the problem.