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The TV rights thread

Who would you like to see get the rights providing the price is right?

  • Seven

    Votes: 57 20.5%
  • Nine

    Votes: 49 17.6%
  • Ten

    Votes: 110 39.6%
  • Rights split between FTA channels

    Votes: 147 52.9%

  • Total voters
    278
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docbrown

Coach
Messages
11,842
he is a Victorian himself

he said soccer will get more than RL http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/soccers-tv-value-set-to-soar/story-e6frf9if-1111116072612

notice this line

Hmm - the socceroos games -

2006 - 4 games in EST zone + late night world cup pools
2007 - 8 games in EST zone
2008 - 7 games in EST zone
2009 - 8 games in EST zone
2010 - 4 games in EST zone + late night world cup pools

Add non-ratings season A-League and the proposed challenge cup tournament. It's foolish for Soccer to go straight head to head against AFL & NRL FTA TV games.

Is that worth $1 billion? It will only get a big deal if a World Cup is played in Asia/Australia - and that's 2022 at the earliest and outside what the 2013 broadcast rights deal covers.

A League might get on FTA - but no network will sacrifice a prime time Friday or Saturday - or a Sunday news lead in slot. It would only be on a Digital Channel, if that.
 
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applesauce

Bench
Messages
3,573
Push for Saturday night free-to-air NRL games
Dean Ritchie
The Daily Telegraph


THERE is a push for Saturday football on free-to-air television after NRL research revealed it's what the fans want.

While Fox Sports enjoy stellar ratings for their extended Super Saturday coverage, fans are calling for free-to-air coverage on Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

The development comes amid speculation that current rights held by Channel 9 may be carved up in the next broadcasting deal with rival Network Ten.

"While Super Saturday is very successful on Fox Sports, our research suggests a big appetite for a free-to-air game on a Saturday night," NRL boss David Gallop said last night.

"It would be great to have coverage on free-to-air over Friday, Saturday and Sunday."

Under the current deal, Nine has two matches on a Friday night and a third on Sunday afternoon. A change could lead Nine to sacrifice a Friday night match for one on Saturday. But that may have to wait until the new TV deal is reached for 2013 because Fox Sports is not ready to give up one of their Saturday time slots.

Television industry sources yesterday said Ten would be reluctant to bid for the NRL on its own and may search for a partner.

Nine CEO David Gyngell and good mate James Packer, who launched a $245 million raid on Network Ten last week, could join forces.

Asked whether he thought Nine and Ten could combine to cover NRL, Gallop said: "It's too early to say but no doubt the whole landscape is fascinating."

Seven remained committed to bidding for rugby league as well.

"I wouldn't be shocked if Nine and Ten got together, but Nine hasn't made a habit of sharing," said one source.

Meanwhile Fusion Strategy managing director Steve Allen last night expressed doubts whether the NRL could obtain its anticipated $1 billion for the next broadcasting rights.
 

juro

Bench
Messages
3,810
"Also, what's developing is that mums want their kids to play soccer. They don't like thuggery, so it's perfectly positioned as a family sport.

"It's minimal contact, of high appeal and it is a fast-moving game for TV, plus it's short."

Um, what difference does it make what sport the mums want their kids to play? Soccer is probably the most played sport by kids in Australia, and has been for as long as I remember, but people still don't like to watch it.
 

meltiger

First Grade
Messages
6,268
A C9/C10 partnership is VERY interesting and something the NRL should definitly look at if it comes to fruition.


You'd have to assume 9 would want to keep FNF and the Sunday game, so that would leave Ten/ONE HD with the Saturday fixture.


The AFL like to fixture a number of Swans fixtures for Saturday nights, (Likely due to the lack of FTA in Sydney on Sat nights) and Ten/ONEHD carry the AFL on Saturday nights. A move to get RL onto FTA, and in particular C10 into Sydney on Saturday nights would be actually be a positive move against the AFL.


Especially given RL would smashify the viewership that the Swans attract in Sydney.
 

bender

Juniors
Messages
2,231
A C9/C10 partnership is VERY interesting and something the NRL should definitly look at if it comes to fruition.


You'd have to assume 9 would want to keep FNF and the Sunday game, so that would leave Ten/ONE HD with the Saturday fixture.


The AFL like to fixture a number of Swans fixtures for Saturday nights, (Likely due to the lack of FTA in Sydney on Sat nights) and Ten/ONEHD carry the AFL on Saturday nights. A move to get RL onto FTA, and in particular C10 into Sydney on Saturday nights would be actually be a positive move against the AFL.


Especially given RL would smashify the viewership that the Swans attract in Sydney.

The perfect situation would be for nine to have what they have now (maybe one less Friday game) and Ten to get: All international rights, All Victorian, South Australian, Tasmanian, Northern Territorrian and Western Australian rights (all games including origin and finals series).
 

Ray Mosters

Juniors
Messages
237
Having one of our 3 FTA games played late on Friday night is really not that useful to the game in the long term. Even if we multichannel the two FN games simultaneously all we are doing is putting our game up against ourselves.

The thing is, a Saturday exclusive for NRL is one of the key planks of Foxtels overall subscription strategy. I'm not talking about their sport strategy here, im talking about their overall Australian strategy. The reason we dominate the Foxtel ratings is RL people have to get subscriptions to see their team on a Saturday.

I daresay they would not be keen to give up that exclusivity... which suggests they will pay through the nose to keep it, and/or there will be serious effect on their contribution to the rights if they cant.
 

Brutus

Referee
Messages
26,276
Having one of our 3 FTA games played late on Friday night is really not that useful to the game in the long term. Even if we multichannel the two FN games simultaneously all we are doing is putting our game up against ourselves.

The thing is, a Saturday exclusive for NRL is one of the key planks of Foxtels overall subscription strategy. I'm not talking about their sport strategy here, im talking about their overall Australian strategy. The reason we dominate the Foxtel ratings is RL people have to get subscriptions to see their team on a Saturday.

I daresay they would not be keen to give up that exclusivity... which suggests they will pay through the nose to keep it, and/or there will be serious effect on their contribution to the rights if they cant.

Fox Sports can have a 4pm and 6pm game on Saturdays, leaving a 7.45pm game to Channel 10/One HD.

Sounds good to me.
 

meltiger

First Grade
Messages
6,268
Roy, problem is, increased FTA coverage is absoloutely essential to the growth of the game.


The money Fox Sports may stump up could decrease of course, but by the same token, with an increased FTA live/near live lineup, you'd expect a significant bump in the FTA portion of the deal.


Fact is, either we go to a 4/4 split like the AFL have now, or a 3/5 split depending on whether the delayed game is maintained, and in my opinion channel 9 will push for it to be kept. Whether the NRL will want it to be kept is a different story of course, particularly if a Saturday night FTA fixture is added to the schedule. Either way though, the minimum amount of games Fox will have exclusive is 4, still more than enough for them to continue to use RL as a sales platform for the service.
 

RL1908

Bench
Messages
2,717
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/soccers-tv-value-set-to-soar/story-e6frf9if-1111116072612

"Also, what's developing is that mums want their kids to play soccer. They don't like thuggery, so it's perfectly positioned as a family sport.

"It's minimal contact, of high appeal and it is a fast-moving game for TV, plus it's short."

Putting aside the unchallenged assertion re "thuggery", the USA provides conclusive enough of an example of how there is no correlation between where fearful 21st century mums steer their little treasures, and what adults & teens want and prefer when it comes to choosing what football code to watch on tv.
 

docbrown

Coach
Messages
11,842
Fox Sports can have a 4pm and 6pm game on Saturdays, leaving a 7.45pm game to Channel 10/One HD.

Sounds good to me.

Interesting idea. Need to address the Saturday afternoon crowd issues (though 4pm is better than 3pm) and Foxtel's reaction to losing a game.

Blanket Sunday coverage though is intriguing - Foxtel game at 12pm or 6pm, panel shows in the 12-1:45pm slot, first game 1:45pm and second game 3:55pm through to 6pm.
 

beave

Coach
Messages
15,638
Fox Sports can have a 4pm and 6pm game on Saturdays, leaving a 7.45pm game to Channel 10/One HD.

Sounds good to me.

well thats bad for my team as we need our games in TVL at 7:30-8:30 saturday nights and I'm sure 10 won't want to come up here every 2nd week so when do we play our home games?????????

what about handing the Monday night coverage to 10 and leaving fox the super saturday exclusivity and the sunday early games??? just a thought.
 

chefman21

Juniors
Messages
1,220
Posted this elsewhere but this is what I would do with the revenue:

Assuming the NRL is generating enough profit to support itself... I'd put a huge chunk of it into long-term investment in infrastructure and financial assets. We need to generate income outside of pokies, merchandise, sponsorship, crowds and memberships. I don't want short and medium term investments yet. I think we need to get long term investments working for us as soon as possible, and let compound interest be our friend. I think we should be looking at investing:
  • 20% of it into junior clubs. The less we have to pay junior clubs to survive the better off we will be. It's a long term spend but I think if we are generating quality players over the years with better infrastructure then our brand will be stronger. $200 million dollars.

  • 35% into long term financial assets from many areas - foreign currency, foreign markets, local markets, property, futures, options, gold, currency and the like. That's three hundred and fifty million dollars ($350,000,000). Now, I did some calculations on compound interest, and based on an increase in value of 7.5%, which is less than the usual 10% expected, and over a period of time it will look this:
    [*]5 years - $500,000,000 approx
    [*]10 years - $700,000,000 approx
    [*]15 years - $1,000,000,000 approx
    [*]25 years - $2,000,000,000 approx
    [*]50 years - $13,000,000,000 approx​
    That's assuming no dividends are reinvested, which I wouldn't want them to be just yet. That's some serious coin. Use it as a cash cow plus watch the investment expand. Once the second TV deal goes through in 10 years time, start reinvesting dividends into the asset or use the dividend to purchase other assets.

  • 20% of the cash can go to the NRL clubs to fix their problems as much as possible. It's not the majority, but $200,000,000 between 16 clubs is quite substantial. It's $12.5 million each. That should clear most debts plus leave enough for small investments.

  • 10% goes directly to the NRL. That should be enough to help with running costs, plus leave enough for investment into their own infrastructure such as support staff, more efficient systems, expansion of facilities etc as well as better marketing, advertising etc etc. ($100 million dollars)

  • The final 15% gets split between the NSWRL, NTRL, SARL, QRL etc. Again, not a huge amount but it's still $150,000,000. Between the seven state bodies, it's $21.5 million dollars each. That's still a serious amount of money. It's enough to help with junior clubs more if need be, the state competition, pay off debts or invest into the state body itself. Even all of them. For the smaller state bodies that's an even bigger amount of money than what the NSWRL or QRL get due to their sheer size. That's a good thing I think. It means they can market the game and help out the local comp much more effectively.

The biggest investments have to be in infrastructure and assets though. The less we have to rely on outside means the better off this game will be. Look what happened with the pokie tax. It nearly killed us. The Roosters last year? Huge dent in their financial means. We need to be looking almost purely long term with this TV deal in my opinion. The new TV deal in 6 or 7 years time can be used to reinvest in the stuff we missed with the rest of it going back into long term assets. But for the moment, we should be using this generate income not using it for instant gratification and poor, short term purchases which provide no income. I think of this as like the money that Great Aunt left you to invest. I think short term pain with long term gain is the way to go. We are surviving with what we have at the moment, and with some reasonable sized investments of around $12.5 million to the NRL clubs they should be able to get through to 2018.

Without getting too far ahead of myself, assuming the new deal is $1.5 billion in 2018 (based on $500 million the last one, $1 billion this one) or whenever the one we are negotiating expires, I'd probably go:

  • 35% to the NRL clubs - between 16 clubs that's nearly $33 million dollars each. Since debts have already been cleared, that leaves a lot of money for a whole heap of stuff.

  • 15% invested in assets - $225 million dollars - short and medium term assets. A cash cow if you like.

  • 20% to local junior clubs - $300 million dollars - it won't go far, but with the earlier $200 million dollars it's half a billion dollars over 8-10 years, which is money we never had before. Got to remember we are still earning a profit before each deal which is getting used.

  • 20% to the NRL - $300 million dollars - use this for club expansion grants, operating costs, player support initiatives etc, as well as more investment into the organisation itself.

  • 10% to the state bodies. - $150 million dollars - $21 million dollars each between the 7 bodies.

Deals like these have to be investments not wasted on stupid stuff like new uniforms, referees etc etc.

The NRL as an entity is a business - no more no less. It has to follow the same business models that are accepted as standard, and they are susceptible to the same market and economic forces that all businesses are susceptible too. If there is a downturn in the local economy they feel the effects of it. Which is why we should be investing in both foreign and local markets. It's all about diversification. Both foreign and local, high risk and low risk.

Let's look at a scenario. If there is a local recession, luxuries such as football games are going to be out of the question for the average citizen. Memberships are going to take a massive hit as is merchandise. Luxuries are the first to go in a recession; that's an accepted fact by most economists and theorists - even by the public itself. People have to eat first, find shelter and pay the bills before buying a new jersey. Obviously. Same with pokies. When you are in a recession, you don't gamble your dinner or your weekly mortgage payments. There goes that source of income. If we are so unlucky that a sponsorship deal is up when it hits, then we are unlikely to get a new deal, or even if we do, a new deal at or exceeding the same value as the previous is unlikely. There goes that as a source of funding. At least one club in the sixteen will renew or seek out a new sponsorship deal each year. The NRL every five years or so. So what are we left with? Since merchandise, memberships, sponsorships, crowds and pokies are our major income sources, we are left with very little.

Which is why we diversify overseas and locally, high risk and low risk, and from shares to futures to forex. If it's a local recession, we need to have other forms of income which are safe and not effected a great deal by a local recession which also means going overseas. We also need to have both high risk and low risk investments. Low risk investments will keep the code out of the metaphorical dole line, with areas such as cash and term deposits coming to the fore that provide a guaranteed - albeit small - income. We need to invest enough so we have an insurance package so to speak.

We move along in the risk factor line to areas such as property, shares and the like. This is where most of our investment goes. We invest both overseas and locally. Mainly blue chip companies such as BHP, Intel, Japan Post Holdings and ING (multiple countries), as well as property in both markets (local and foreign) and of all types (commercial, industrial and residential). These should provide almost guaranteed returns most years. A small percentage of the cash foes to high risk investments both foreign and local. Futures and options, high risk companies, hedge funds, emerging markets and the like. The potential for these are enormous, but you wouldn't put the house on it so to speak.

The problem with investing purely in the game is that it is still a business and as described in the scenario above, is still at risk from local economic factors and as the pokie tax has shown, legislation factors. By investing in a diverse number of areas, you lay a foundation where economic and legislation factors effecting the code are limited substantially. Sure, you might lose crowds and memberships with a local recession, but you will still have enough income and assets to pay the bills. An overseas recession is the same thing. You might lose that source of income and that investment might take a beating but you still have the others. Kind of like the player carrying an injury - your teammates will guide you through. I'm all too happy for the majority to go into the code itself - I left just under two thirds of the reported potential revenue as being purely for the code - about $650 million dollars. But I think if we spread ourselves just a little then we don't have all our eggs in the one basket.

We can't limit ourselves to just local markets, bread and butter investments such as shares and property or investing directly into the code. Look at opportunities. If there is a company overseas specifically tailored to sports and is looking for an investor or is a suitable investment then do a deal. Textile company with a solid financial background? Do it. Cheaper uniforms for the clubs and the fans. Limiting ourselves will only get us into trouble. I'm all for investing in the code, which is why I proposed 65% of the revenue from this deal is going straight back into areas that directly affect the code and the brand. But we shouldn't limit ourselves to just focusing on the code without looking outside the square.



That was a big spill. Being thinking about it for a couple of weeks now... :D
 

Ray Mosters

Juniors
Messages
237
Roy, problem is, increased FTA coverage is absoloutely essential to the growth of the game.

The money Fox Sports may stump up could decrease of course, but by the same token, with an increased FTA live/near live lineup, you'd expect a significant bump in the FTA portion of the deal.
Perhaps, but not a commensurate one. We would be talking about a loss, a significant one even.

How much less would you be happy with for 5 games on FTA all on at good times all around the country? (multi-channeled outside the heartland of course)

I think we could get 800m with the current setup... would you be happy with 750m? 700m? 600m?

Money isnt everything, exposure is really important to the game. Probably MORE important than keeping a few high priced turncoats in the game for their whole careers.

I dont know
 

docbrown

Coach
Messages
11,842
Money isnt everything, exposure is really important to the game.

It's what you do with it though. Money can buy exposure and development.

When the NRL deal was last made, they were dudded on their broadcast agreements and the deal was undervalued by about $100 million - primarily because of a lack of competition. Since that time the ratings have increased to become the number sport on television in the country and the NRL's market presence has increased more than any other sport. It has done this despite a blackout in half the country.

With other games growing their markets, the NRL can ill afford another 5 years under the same system - and if it were to also get a smaller % increase than other games, given that it is already undervalued - it should be considered a blackmark on the games administrators because they will have failed everybody involved in the sport at all levels.

The AFL are looking for a 30% increase - about $2 million for the extra game minus CPI etc.

The NRL should be basing it's figures on a $600 million deal - plus CPI and a higher percentage for larger audience growth - about $800 to $850 million - plus increasing digital channel audiences in other states (assuming national coverage) plus a 9th game (so 4 on FTA) plus a competitive audction -

So they should be looking at getting something around the $850 to $1050 million mark.

Anything less than that would be mismanagement.
 

Ray Mosters

Juniors
Messages
237
The NRL should be basing it's figures on a $600 million deal - plus CPI and a higher percentage for larger audience growth - about $800 to $850 million - plus increasing digital channel audiences in other states (assuming national coverage) plus a 9th game (so 4 on FTA) plus a competitive audction -

So they should be looking at getting something around the $850 to $1050 million mark.

Anything less than that would be mismanagement.
Hmmm, well, I think you are being very generous on a couple of the later points.

I think we were only undervalued last time because we lacked a fair auction, and 600m is a sensible starting point this time, 800 to 850 million is a sensible estimate increase IMO.

Unfortunately we dont have a 9th game, and we certainly cant sell one until we do. And alternate channel audiences in the southern states arent worth anything at all...they will be put on as a courtesy for us to help promote the game, and they will rate nothing for a long time.

I think 800-850 is very reasonable, and far from being a result of mismanagement, i think its the most we will get.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
67,158
Hmmm, well, I think you are being very generous on a couple of the later points.

I think we were only undervalued last time because we lacked a fair auction, and 600m is a sensible starting point this time, 800 to 850 million is a sensible estimate increase IMO.

Unfortunately we dont have a 9th game, and we certainly cant sell one until we do. And alternate channel audiences in the southern states arent worth anything at all...they will be put on as a courtesy for us to help promote the game, and they will rate nothing for a long time.

I think 800-850 is very reasonable, and far from being a result of mismanagement, i think its the most we will get.

maybe on a Friday night but a Saturday afternoon/early evening and a Sunday afternoon wouldn't necessarily rate less than the rubbish Ch9 show now. In fact we have seen in Perth that the NRL rated better on a Sunday afternoon at 2pm then the WWE wrestling that replaced it after a few weeks. The figures might not be massive but if they are better than what is being shown then the TV station is losing nothing.
 

docbrown

Coach
Messages
11,842
I think we were only undervalued last time because we lacked a fair auction, and 600m is a sensible starting point this time

Yes $600 million would have been a fair worth and as I said, because of a lack of competition.

Unfortunately we dont have a 9th game, and we certainly cant sell one until we do.

Well you either activate a clause for the 9th game for a balloon payment - or when the 9th game is introduced, have an auction for that 1 game. The former is the better option though as it guarantees an owner.

Basically, you say "when game 9 begins, X network agrees to pay X amount per year for the years that game 9 runs through to the end of current broadcast deal". So if it's $10 million a year for example and the team only play 3 out of 5 years, the balloon payment is activated for $30 million before the start of that first year. There's precedents for this in the American sports leagues. If Game 9 doesn't happen, no payment is made.

So - you can sell Game 9 - without Game 9 existing. With 9 games, anything less than $850 million would be a bad result.
 
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