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The underlying reason for Roosters' collapse: the loss of Trent Robinson

Ozzy

First Grade
Messages
9,017
What have you done to piss the other Roosters posters off so much?

The relevance is Soward/Carney are both five eighths and that Soward was already playing at your club in lower grades as a five eighth. As has been stated at the moment it does look like Saints got the better deal as in they are getting a lot more value from Soward at present than you are from Todd Carney. It has nothing to do with the timing of when the players signed.
TT hasn't pissed me off. I just find most of what Mong says irrelevant.
 
Messages
33,280
I see you jumping to Mong's defence and obviously you've never had the mispleasure of dealing with her because starting dopey arguments like I've done here and sending around in circles going nowhere is exactly what she has done since day dot. That's why shes posts more in the post origin thread here in a few weeks than she has in the last year in the Saints forum. This is exactly what Mong does and any time Mong posts in the Roosters forum I'll ask her for the relevance of Carney to Soward's release.

Saints didn't get any value out of Soward until 2 years after he signed, Carney won the Dally M medal in his first season with us. Their performances individualy have Carney beating Soward in that department, the premiership is a team effort with 17-20 blokes contributing to that and only Carney contributing to his Dally M medal in year 1 with us.

Just go back to the Merge forum.
 

Dragons01

First Grade
Messages
9,066
But where has Carney been this year when your club needed him? And that is where the value part comes in. No-one denies that Carney has a lot of talent(he is still also young) and for all the talk of him winning the Dally M in 2010 it did not help the Roosters in the grand final. In fact Carney had a very quiet game that day and his contribution to the Roosters this year, well has been zero.

It is not a matter of Carney beating Soward, in the end Soward would turn around and say 'who cares'(so would Carney probably). Winning the Dally M award in hindsight is probably the worst thing that happened to Carney, his career has been downhill since that night while Sowards has gone through the roof.
 

Mong

Post Whore
Messages
55,692
I see you jumping to Mong's defence and obviously you've never had the mispleasure of dealing with her because starting dopey arguments like I've done here and sending around in circles going nowhere is exactly what she has done since day dot. That's why shes posts more in the post origin thread here in a few weeks than she has in the last year in the Saints forum. This is exactly what Mong does and any time Mong posts in the Roosters forum I'll ask her for the relevance of Carney to Soward's release.

Saints didn't get any value out of Soward until 2 years after he signed, Carney won the Dally M medal in his first season with us. Their performances individualy have Carney beating Soward in that department, the premiership is a team effort with 17-20 blokes contributing to that and only Carney contributing to his Dally M medal in year 1 with us.

Just go back to the Merge forum.

Gee whiz TT..

Have a cry why don't you..
 

Mong

Post Whore
Messages
55,692
You should stick to crying like a little girl.. You are much better at it..
 

Lambretta

First Grade
Messages
8,689
TT - Have you noticed how none of the other Rooster posters on this forum have come in and had a go at Mong for his 'deal' comment. Normally they would jump to your defence nearly straight away - but they are not because they can see the basic logic in the comment. No-one is saying the signings were related because they weren't. What is being said is that out of the 2 signings, the Dragons at this point look to have got the better deal(there's that word again). The better value, outcome.

In response to the Carney vs Soward comment - I personally believe we got the better deal with Carney.

Yes, I'll wait for you to stop laughing. But I'll try and explain myself.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not anti Soward. I really, truly, believe he is a good player and the fact he's really stepped up to become a good Origin player is proof of his ability and his determination to suceed at the top level. But I place this sucess not only on Jamie's determination, but on the ability of his coach to recognise how best to play him and to fit him into a structure that gave him the confidence to become the player he's now become.

I'm not at all convinced that he would have managed this had he stayed at Bondi.

During his time with us we never knew how to use him, where to have him defend, how to utilise his kicking game to our best advantage etc

Soward really shines when his team retains possession. With Jamie he is the most effective when you get to the end of your set of 6 and let him kick. Dead set, if Mong thinks for one minute that Jamie would have kicked 30% of the balls he has today if he'd stayed with the Roosters he wants his f**king head reading.

Quite simply, our ball security is f**king rubbish and it's been f**king rubbish since 2005. If Soward had been in our team he would have spent most of his time defending and everyone would have been questioning his ability / usefullness.

Of course this would have left him in the reserves with everyone scratching their heads wondering what to do with him. Playing in reserves for Newtown was probably his future if he hadnt left Bondi and gone somewhere that had a coach good enough to utilise him in a decent attacking structure. Boring and efficient suits Soward down to the ground as you get the best from him.

As for Toddy, playing off the cuff, unstructured stuff - the sort of football where the forwards appear to have gotten lost on the way to the front line really suits him. Yes Todd has his off field issues, yes he loves a tattoo almost as much as he loves King Alcohol, but Todd suits the Roosters better than Jamie does. Todd can create line breaks through his passing when the pressure is on. Jamie when placed in this sort of rabble in retreat sort of team as he was when he was at the Roosters, didn't handle things quite as well. Yes Jamie has the talent, the speed and the kicking game to be up there with the best. But Todd has something extra - and I'm glad we have him.

If Todd ever replaced Jamie at the Dragons I think he'd be an unstoppable force and hopefully we never find out if I'm right - but for us at the Roosters we have the better player for where we are right now.

Jamie, as good as he is, just wasnt right at Bondi and for his sake, I'm glad he left and I'm more than happy with Todd - even if he is a problem child.
 

Mong

Post Whore
Messages
55,692
Uh oh you said deal.. TT will be all confused again.

You can keep Carney, wouldn't want him or his disruptive influence anywhere near my club.

Soward is a btter player without the drama that comes with it. What Soward contributes on the field along with what he doesn't bring to the team with off field issues makes him a much more valuable part of the club then what Carney does with your lot.

Soward lead Saints to a GF and WCC victories last year, carney lead your lot to a smashing in the GF last year and then down the gurgler this.

If you prefer what Carney does to your club then so be it, can't imagine why you would prefer that though.
 

Cliffhanger

Coach
Messages
15,228
You're a moron, compare the Roosters' line up with the Dragons' one and compare the coaches.

The fact we even got to a grand final last year is a testament to Carney's abilities.

I was a fan at Soward when he was with us, but he never stepped up in first grade and while some of that would be because he got jerked around, he still had his chances and he was exposed.
 

Mong

Post Whore
Messages
55,692
You're a moron, compare the Roosters' line up with the Dragons' one and compare the coaches.

The fact we even got to a grand final last year is a testament to Carney's abilities.

So you are agreeing with me that the Roosters over achieved last year?

Interesting.. No one was agreeing with me not long ago about that.

I was a fan at Soward when he was with us, but he never stepped up in first grade and while some of that would be because he got jerked around, he still had his chances and he was exposed.

He has been exposed hasn't he.. Exposed as being a grand final winning world club challenge winning 5/8..
 

Monk

Referee
Messages
21,347
I've seen worse, let's just leave this thread be, he was promoting somewhat medial football discussion but it's had it's time.
 

Mong

Post Whore
Messages
55,692
It's time all of Mong's posts get moved to the troll thread

Poor TT..

Someone else understood the deal saying and now he is all upset and doesn't want to talk about the subject matter anymore.

Over achieved last year TT.. Do you also agree now?
 

Lambretta

First Grade
Messages
8,689
If you prefer what Carney does to your club then so be it, can't imagine why you would prefer that though.

We'd prefer Carney because he has delivered on the field for us. Jamie showed us glimpses, but he didn't suit the structure (or at times glaring lack of structure) at the Roosters. We just didn't suit his game. Carney, for all his off field issues suits us.

Jamie's greatest strength has always been his ability to create decent field position through his amazing kicking game. We often don't make the end of our sets and therefore he'd be far less effective for us.

It's not that I'm saying one is a better player than the other - I'm merely stating that one suits us better and we're better on the field for his presence.
 

Mong

Post Whore
Messages
55,692
We'd prefer Carney because he has delivered on the field for us. Jamie showed us glimpses, but he didn't suit the structure (or at times glaring lack of structure) at the Roosters. We just didn't suit his game. Carney, for all his off field issues suits us.

Jamie's greatest strength has always been his ability to create decent field position through his amazing kicking game. We often don't make the end of our sets and therefore he'd be far less effective for us.

It's not that I'm saying one is a better player than the other - I'm merely stating that one suits us better and we're better on the field for his presence.

Carney has delivered you what on the field?

Now compare that to what he has delivered to you bywhat he has done off the field..

Still a better deal than what Soward has gone on to deliver?
 

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