The Walking Dead

[Springs]

Am I the only one who was disappointed that they killed off Dale?

I thought that was a mistake. What does everyone else think?

I was. But I do have a feeling it was because of Darabont's departure. DeMunn is in all of Darabont's works and I wouldn't be surprised if he quit the show after they fired Darabont.

And so far Hershel's role in season three has been a lot like Dale's role in the prison.

But still having Dale would make me like it even more. The more old bearded guys the better.

Dale was trying to hold onto the way the world used to be, not what it was becoming. The zombie tearing him apart just highlighted that there was little room for "morality" when it can just get you killed.

I think he was trying to hold on to humanity, he didn't think everyone should just turn to 'in doubt = kill'. And I agree with him, there can still be humanity and morality in post-apocalypse world, it doesn't have to be everyone goes batshit crazy and kills each other.

 

[Joker's Wild]

But Dale's death didn't have anything to do with his stance on morality. He died because Lori wasn't looking after the little shit who took Darryl's gun without asking and then let a zombie loose onto the farm without telling anyone.

You're looking at it a little to literally there bro. Carl running off being a little bitch is a reflection of how soft the group was on him, he should have been given a reality check about the consequences of his actions long before that. Dale paid the price

 

[bileduct]

You're looking at it a little to literally there bro. Carl running off being a little bitch is a reflection of how soft the group was on him, he should have been given a reality check about the consequences of his actions long before that. Dale paid the price

I'm not seeing your point.

The group wasn't being soft on him at all. Shane chided him a number of times about being where he wasn't supposed to be, and Lori was always going spastic at Rick over Carl getting shot, etc.

If anything it was a reflection on how terrible a mother Lori was. She spent too much time washing dishes and doing anything other than keeping him in sight while Rick and Shane were doing something else.

There's no morality story here at all. Dale died because Carl did something incredibly stupid, and he didn't even learn from it. He did, after all, escape the house (again) when Lori failed to supervise him (again), and went off to find Rick having just stabbed Shane.

 

[bileduct]

If it were really a tale about Dale's morality getting them into trouble then the obvious thing to do from the writer's perspective would have been for the group to let Randall go, and then have him come back with his group and attack the farm.

 

[Joker's Wild]

The point mate is that what worked pre outbreak doesn't work post outbreak. Letting Carl go off by himself and not thinking of what he might get into or the stupid kid decisions he might make was the mistake. You can't afford to think of anything but survival of you and those you care about. The second you relax, like the group started to do at the farm, the shit hits the fan and people die.

Dale talking all that "we can't let it change us" crap was a fantasy. Just like Lori ragging on the blonde bird for not helping out the women folk more.

Dales actions didn't directly lead to his death but the groups did

 

[urban eel]

this is the best thread on LU atm imho

 

[bileduct]

The whole flaw in your argument is that they weren't deliberately letting Carl go off to do what he wanted. He was disobeying orders.

You're clutching at straws here.

 

[Joker's Wild]

The whole flaw in your argument is that they weren't deliberately letting Carl go off to do what he wanted. He was disobeying orders.

You're clutching at straws here.

lol no I'm not

He is a kid in a hostile environment, they should have been on his arse 24/7. If it were me and my son its sure as shit what I'd do.

If you can't see that then perhaps you're not as perceptive as you try to make out around here

 

[bileduct]

lol no I'm not

He is a kid in a hostile environment, they should have been on his arse 24/7. If it were me and my son its sure as shit what I'd do.

If you can't see that then perhaps you're not as perceptive as you try to make out around here

You need to take a course in basic writing, mate. You have NFI.

There are two stories being told in S02E11. The main storyline is an examination of the morality of the group killing off Randall based on a threat he may or may not represent to the group. The second storyline is one of Carl wanting to prove himself and learning to become responsible for his actions.

The main plot A, sub plot B is the staple of almost every television show in existence.

If the writers really did intend to do what you believe they did, to kill off Dale to prove to the group they can no longer be civilised, they did it in such a convoluted way that you seem to be the only one that noticed it.

As I said before, if they intended to make the point that Dale's death was caused by not hardening up then they would have let Randall go and his group would have come back to attack the farm.

Springs hit the nail on the head when he said this -

But I do have a feeling it was because of Darabont's departure. DeMunn is in all of Darabont's works and I wouldn't be surprised if he quit the show after they fired Darabont.

Both Jeffrey DeMunn (Dale) and Jon Berthal (Shane) are in Frank Darabont's new show LA Noir.

Hershel's character has taken over Dale's role in the comics, leg amputation and all.

 

[bileduct]

Maybe it's better to let the writers explain this one for themselves.

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1680363/walking-dead-dale-death.jhtml

'Walking Dead' Creator Explains Shocking Death

"Dale's death comes at a time where he's very much needed," executive producer Robert Kirkman told MTV News about the shocking decision to kill DeMunn's character. "[Rick and the gang] are trying to make this decision on what to do with Randall. The farm is becoming increasingly dangerous. There is still tension between Rick and Shane, despite the fact that it appears that they've put much of their differences behind them for now. They need that moral compass [in Dale], and it's been taken away."

Losing Dale will have massive repercussions on the rest of the "Walking Dead" cast, Kirkman promised. Chief among those feeling the sting will be Carl (Chandler Riggs), who was partially responsible for Dale's death. Earlier in the episode, Carl wandered into the forest by himself and taunted a seemingly immobile zombie — the very same zombie that ripped Dale's guts out.

"It's interesting to see Carl doing kid stuff: going out on his own, trying to prove he's strong enough to kill a zombie, proving that he's deserving of carrying a gun," Kirkman said. "He instigated this whole situation. We're going to deal with his emotions and what comes from him causing Dale's death to a certain extent. That's definitely one of the big repercussions where Dale's death affects these characters."

Once again, Dale's death proves that the "Walking Dead" TV series is more than willing to deviate from the "Walking Dead" comic books. In Kirkman's comics, Dale survives dozens and dozens of issues before finally succumbing to a fatal zombie bite. Seeing the popular character leave the show so soon is bound to be a shock for longtime fans then — but that wasn't the only kind of shock value Kirkman and company were aiming for.

"One of the things we wanted to do is show how dangerous these zombies actually are," Kirkman said. "We were sitting around the writers' room early on in the planning of season two, and we thought, you know, there aren't a lot of zombies actually succeeding in what they're trying to do. They eat people here and there, but we've never really had a zombie actually take down one of our main characters — at least not for a while, not since the first season. We wanted to remind people how dangerous these creatures are. It also threw a wrench in everyone's plans to take Dale off the table, so those two ideas merged into one until we eventually came to offing this character."

 

[bileduct]

http://moviehole.net/201253637-the-...-play-spin-off-revenge-of-chucky-in-the-works

Chandler Riggs confirmed that actor Jeffrey Demunn, who portrayed Dale Horvath on ”The Walking Dead”, quit the show. “After Darabont left, he was like ‘I’m out of here.” As you might remember, showrunner Frank Darabont (“The Shawshank Redemption&#8221 was unceremoniously fired by AMC last year. Demunn, who was a regular in Darabont’s films (having roles in “The Green Mile,” “The Shawshank Redemption” and “The Mist&#8221 was crushed by Darabont’s firing and left after he was no longer involved with the show.

So it seems like Dale would have lasted longer, but the character had to be killed off to make way for Demunn’s departure. The whole situation is reminiscent of Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje’s exit from ABC’s “Lost” as Mr. Eko. The showrunners had big plans for the character and had to kill the character off prematurely because the actor wanted off the show. It worked out for AMC though, Dale’s death was shocking to people emotionally invested in the show.

 

[Joker's Wild]

You need to take a course in basic writing, mate. You have NFI.

There are two stories being told in S02E11. The main storyline is an examination of the morality of the group killing off Randall based on a threat he may or may not represent to the group. The second storyline is one of Carl wanting to prove himself and learning to become responsible for his actions.

The main plot A, sub plot B is the staple of almost every television show in existence.

If the writers really did intend to do what you believe they did, to kill off Dale to prove to the group they can no longer be civilised, they did it in such a convoluted way that you seem to be the only one that noticed it.

As I said before, if they intended to make the point that Dale's death was caused by not hardening up then they would have let Randall go and his group would have come back to attack the farm.

Springs hit the nail on the head when he said this -


Both Jeffrey DeMunn (Dale) and Jon Berthal (Shane) are in Frank Darabont's new show LA Noir.

Hershel's character has taken over Dale's role in the comics, leg amputation and all.

Whatever way you want to interpret it mate, I see things differently in this case.

People can have differing opinions ya know

 

[butchmcdick]

One thing I like on the show is that characters leave and are not heard of again. Nothing is wrapped up in a neat package eg the black guy and his son from the pilot and the Mexican family from the camp I. Season one. These characters just drift off and we are left not knowing what happens to them.

As for the current debate perhaps both scenarios are valid. The actor playing dale pisses off when darabond leaves and the writers use his death as the loss of the groups moral compass

 

[bileduct]

One thing I like on the show is that characters leave and are not heard of again. Nothing is wrapped up in a neat package eg the black guy and his son from the pilot and the Mexican family from the camp I. Season one. These characters just drift off and we are left not knowing what happens to them.

Spoiler: Minor spoiler of upcoming episode

Morgan and his son will be reappearing in the show very soon.

As for the current debate perhaps both scenarios are valid. The actor playing dale pisses off when darabond leaves and the writers use his death as the loss of the groups moral compass

That's precisely what they did, but that's not what JW seems to be arguing. His initial point was that Dale's death was because of his stance on morality, which then changed to Carl's continuously sneaking off somehow being a comment on the group's morality as a whole.

That's the part I don't understand.

 

[Joker's Wild]

*sigh*

Dale was the moral crusader always calling for the group to not lose their humanity in a violent, hostile environment.

Carl was acting like a shit ignoring the fact he was in a violent, hostile environment

Lori was treating Carl as if he was just an acting out pre-teen in suburban America, not a violent, hostile environment.

Carl runs off trying to be tough and prove he's not a kid, encounters a walker and pussies out like a kid would in a violent, hostileenvironment

Said walker sneaks up on Dale and guts him, removing the most outspoken member of the group on morality.

The group gel and work like a team and start facing the violent, hostile environment like they should, with survival as the only consideration

I really hope that's clear

 

[bileduct]

*sigh*

Dale was the moral crusader always calling for the group to not lose their humanity in a violent, hostile environment.

Carl was acting like a shit ignoring the fact he was in a violent, hostile environment

Lori was treating Carl as if he was just an acting out pre-teen in suburban America, not a violent, hostile environment.

Carl runs off trying to be tough and prove he's not a kid, encounters a walker and pussies out like a kid would in a violent, hostileenvironment

Said walker sneaks up on Dale and guts him, removing the most outspoken member of the group on morality.

The group gel and work like a team and start facing the violent, hostile environment like they should, with survival as the only consideration

I really hope that's clear

Go and listen to the eulogy that Rick gives Dale at the start of S02E12 and tell me how his words there support what you are saying.

Especially the part where he ends it with "From now on, we're gonna do it his way. That is how we honor Dale."

You are right in that Dale's death brings the group together, but you are incorrect when you say that his death is a comment that morality isn't important in a post-apocalyptic world. In fact, Rick's words say the exact opposite.

But hey, whatever man. I'm done arguing this.

 

[bileduct]

As a side note, it was interesting to see that the little shit auditioned for the main role in the Ender's Game feature film.

Thaaaaank f**k he didn't get it. It would have ruined one of my favourite childhood books.

 

[Joker's Wild]

Yep they really do it his way when they take the prison, kill most of the inmates and leave the surviving ones to fend for themselves.

Words are wind. Actions speak for themselves

 

[butchmcdick]

Yep they really do it his way when they take the prison, kill most of the inmates and leave the surviving ones to fend for themselves.

Words are wind. Actions speak for themselves

Words are wind

How many f**king times do you read that sentence in the game of thrones books ?

 

[bileduct]

Geez, you really clutch at straws.

Did they kill the prisoners when they first saw them? Or did they kill one of them after he tried to f**k Rick over?

Edit: Also, it's a maximum security prison. It would be common sense to not want prisoners near your group.

EXCEPT... the two remaining prisoners that didn't try to f**k Rick over have joined the group.

There's that anti-morality again!