Firstly - bloody hell. My last post was last night on page 11 I think - and now we're on page 16 - this thread has a life of its own.
Secondly, to all those people who think that myself and others who share and articulate my views are homophobes and should shutup - get a life. This is debating forum where different views are needed. I can just imagine what a happening place this would be if Willow, Salivor, Denis and GreenEye sat around agreeing with each other all day.
Now, back into it.
JoeD said:
This thread has gone on way too long. Moffo and Sal have been arguing all this time about whether gay men are inherently more feminine than straight men. It would be funny if it hadn't gone on so long and become boring.
I haven't followed the whole feminine-gay link. I have no idea what that has to do with the subject at hand.
Goangod - it seems your main objection to homosexuality is that it is the first step on the slippery slope to pedophilia and necrophilia, amongst other things
Correct.
This is how I see things.
Sex is between a male and a female for the purpose of procreation or pleasure within marriage.
Simple.
This is what has happened.
Since the 1960s, we here in the West have embarked on an aggressive campaign of social reengineering with devastating consequences (and some positives too it must be said). This was essentially a time of great social change, rebellion against all forms of authority and the era of 'sexual liberation'.
The notion that sex was for procreation or pleasure within marriage was challenged and discarded - first by academia, then by the wider population. Now sex could be outside marriage in any relationship.
This paved the way for no fault divorce laws and defacto relationships and essentially completely undermined the significance of marriage. It was also an open invitation to promiscuity which saw a staggering increase in STDs.
What happened next?
Next to be discarded on the altar of social engineering was the notion that the primary function of sex was procreation - its primary function was now pleasure and pleasure alone. People were encouraged to experiment sexually with whoever they wanted, whenever they wanted - it was sex with no consequences.
Additionally, the notion of any kind of religious/spiritual significance of the sexual act, or of marriage itself, began to be eroded. Sex was simply a mechanistic act, performed for pleasure and marriage was a not union of man and woman before God, it was merely a social contract. The advent of mass contraception also facilitated this transition.
This then paved the way for homosexuality. If the primary purpose of sex was only for pleasure, then how could homosexual acts possibly be wrong? Firstl adopted by academia, then by the wider population, homosexuality gradually began to be accepted.
The next logical step of the 'sex for pleasure' mentality was abortion. Since sex was primarily for pleasure, pregnancy was not something to be desired, but rather an unwanted consequence to be halted. The concept of life as sacred had vanished, as part of an ongoing campaign of desacralisation and secularisation. Abortion then, should be provided to women at any stage of pregnancy since it was viewed as a fundamental human right.
Now we have to ask ourselves two things. First, what have been the consequences of these social changes on our society and secondly, where to from here?
In terms of consequences - well look around at the social wreckage that constitutes much of the West today. Let's look at specifically Australia. Today, almost 50% of marriages end in divorce - facilitated by no fault divorce laws. The impact on society and on the children who are involved has been incalculable - research only now is beginning to discover this,
What are the costs to society of a child without a father? Or without a mother? A child, we are told, can be raised by anyone and still grow up normally. There is no 'ideal' family since all family types are 'equal'. The traditional family has collapsed.
Secondly, due to this factor, the easy availability of sex and the recognition of de facto relationships - the number of people getting married has decreased and the age of those who do get married has also increased. This has meant our birth rate has collapsed, supplemented only by immigration.
Thirdly, we now have one of the highest abortion rates in the world - 90, 000 per year in NSW alone. Again, this has had disastrous effects on our population and birth rate, not to mention the emotional and medical impacts on the women who have gone through this horrific ordeal
Fourthly, sexual liberation has led to an epidemic of STDs and AIDs among the sexually active population.
Fifth, Australia now has one of the highest, if not the highest, suicide rate in the world. Our contempt for life is further highlighted by the fact that we have one of the highest rates of drug usage in the world and also one of the highest rates of child abuse. Amidst all our wealth, all our progress, all our riches - in our sexually liberated society people are finding not happiness - but despair.
Sixth, the fundamental human rights of women and minorities have been recognised - this probably the most significant social gain made as a result of the widespread social change.
As to where we are going? It's quite simple - not content with the destruction they have wrought on the traditional family, social engineers will pressure for homosexual marriages to be legalised as the next logical step - this has already happened. The logical outcome of this is that homosexual adoption will also be legalised since there is no 'ideal family'.
Polygamists will be the next to jump on the bandwagon. If the family unit is arbitrary, they will argue, then who is to say that polgyamy cannot be practiced in a normal, loving and healthy way? Ditto with incest - isn't that what is all about? Dispensing with all our social taboos?
Pedophiles are next. The age of consent laws are dropping. From 18 to 16, from 16 to 14, from 14 to 12. This sustained campaign will only continue. An academic in the States recently declared that we should stop 'judging' these relationships as these 'inter generational' relationships were actually found to be beneficial to the child involved. Consensual adult child sex then, primarily for pleasure, can help our children grow and develop. What answer do we have?
And this is a lesson for you Salivor. Whatever social change you want to make, there is always someone willing to go further. I think the comments by Thierry surprised you - how could someone possibly support pedophiles and their 'rights'? But someone did - and you were trapped the very logic that you used against me re homosexuality.
Euthanasia, I think will become the norm. If life is not sacred, as people live longer, they become a burden on our society. Already this campaign is underway in this country - it will be legalised within the next 5 years.
Compulsory abortion and sterilisation for those not considered 'socially acceptable' is the next logical step - this has already happened as well.
Last but by no means least, we have science to consider. Freed from all moral constraints, our scientists and corporations can conduct research that would have been considered abhorrent a few decades ago. Mixing human cells and animal cells, cloning humans, breeding humans or human cells just for spare parts - all these things are happening now.
You say that I argue against homosexuality because I am a 'homophobe'. I say you are wrong. I see the homosexuality debate as just one more battle in the culture wars that are going on right now. A battle that I am sure will be lost, but is important to fight just the same. My argument is against this aggressive campaign of social change and the devastation it has left in its wake. I see the culture of our society disintegrating - from one of an ethic of hard work, respect and sacrifice, to one of greed, decadence, and moral emptiness in the mindless pursuit of pleasure.
