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The world's gayest nation

salivor

First Grade
Messages
9,804
I'm not answering the question goangod because its got nothing to do with the topic at hand. Nothing more but a sick attempt to compare homosexuality to paedophilia.
 

Terminator

First Grade
Messages
6,303
Society does'nt support it at all, never has and it never will, I don't see paedophiles having a place in it, what distresses me are the poeple who cover for them, example our court systems the highest governing bodys in the land are now riddled with them, and other deviants, the sooner they are weeded out for good the better everyone will be.
 

Alan Shore

First Grade
Messages
9,390
Look what you've done now lefties.

Once you let in homosexuality all the other evils get shoved in our faces too. :evil:
 

ozcrusader

Bench
Messages
4,915
salivor said:
I'm not answering the question goangod because its got nothing to do with the topic at hand. Nothing more but a sick attempt to compare homosexuality to paedophilia.

Still in denial Salivor? That's all right - your refusal to answer the question reveals your lack of an argument.

Fears Grow Over Academic Efforts to Normalize Pedophilia
By Steve Brown

July 10, 2003

(CNSNews.com) - Cultural experts who agree with claims that the Supreme Court may have opened the door to legalizing pedophilia in its Lawrence v. Texas decision on private homosexual behavior point to the growing movement within academia to de-stigmatize pedophilia.

On its website, The North American Man Boy Love Association Director David Thorstad claims: "Pederasty, like homosexuality, has existed, and exists, in all societies that have ever been studied. Homoeroticism is a ubiquitous feature of human experience, as even efforts to repress it confirm. Men and youths have always been attracted to each other, and, like homosexuality in general, their love is irrepressible."

Potential trouble on the Supreme Court

However, restraining the Court may prove more difficult than expected. ...the Lawrence decision could lead to legalized pedophilia and other sexual acts, the Catholic Family Association of America (CFAA) pointed to a potential pedophilia advocate on the Court itself.


Chichester was referring to a paper authored by Ginsburg entitled "Sex Bias in the U.S. Code," which was prepared for the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights in April 1977

"When U.S. Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg was an attorney for the ACLU, she co-authored a report recommending that the age of consent for sexual acts be lowered to 12 years of age," the article points out.

LaRue said pedophiles may co-opt language used in the Lawrence decision regarding homosexuals; that laws against their behavior are a discriminatory attempt to harm them as a persecuted minority. And they will be supported, she claimed, by academia.

Reclassifying pedophilia already subject to debate.

In his 1999 article "Harming the Little Ones: The Effects of Pedophilia on Children," Timothy Dailey, senior analyst for cultural studies with the Family Research Council, chronicled the APA's treatment of pedophilia in the DSM and compares it to the APA evolution of homosexuality.

Mary Eberstadt, research fellow at the Hoover Institute, told CNSNews.com: "The evidence is plain: there is indeed an ongoing attempt from within the psychiatric and psychological communities to de-stigmatize pedophilia by de-classifying it as a paraphilia in the first place."

Academic efforts to normalize pedophilia draw fire, praise

For further evidence, Eberstadt points to "A Meta-Analytic Examination of Assumed Properties of Child Sexual Abuse Using College Samples," a study published in the July 1998 Psychological Bulletin of the American Psychological Association.

It contended that "negative effects (of child sexual abuse) were neither pervasive nor typically intense, and that men reacted much less negatively than women." It further stipulated that children's feelings about sexual encounters with adults should be taken into effect and that "a willing encounter with positive reactions would be labeled simply adult-child sex."

In 1999, after being rejected by several publishing houses, the University of Minnesota Press published Harmful to Minors by journalist Judith Levine, including a foreword by former Surgeon General Joycelyn Elders, who was asked to resign by President Bill Clinton after she endorsed making masturbation part of the public school curriculum.

In the book, Levine contends that pedophiles are "myths" and faults the government for making pedophilia illegal.

"Pedophiles are not generally violent, if there is such thing as pedophiles at all," Levin wrote. "More important, sexual contact with a child does not a pedophile make."

Eberstadt, LaRue and others have pointed out that Levine's assertions in the book rest solely on pro-pedophilia sources such as the NAMBLA Bulletin, and Levine's work earned her a book prize from the Los Angeles Times.

The roots of de-stigmatizing pedophilia in contemporary society

"Kinsey worked to lower penalties for sex offenders and said he couldn't understand why children were harmed by being sexually touched by adults," Knight continued. "He based this on a series of sex experiments on children as young as 2 months of age. A chapter in Sexual Behavior in the Human Male reports on the molestation of hundreds of boys, with Kinsey concluding that the victims enjoyed the activity."

Sprigg said it was "inevitable" that redefining pedophilia as not being a mental disorder would pave the way for greater social and legal acceptance of that behavior.

Nicolosi argued that "as society changes, the definition of mental illness is likely to change along with it. Therefore, as our society comes increasingly to value sexual liberation and children's autonomy, pressure increases on the psychiatric establishment to stop pathologizing things like childhood sexual expression, gender variance and homosexuality."

"The danger arises when the public gives psychiatry too much power; when the layman assumes that psychiatry 'knows something' about sexuality that the moral ethicist does not," Nicolosi said. "Psychiatry cannot tell the layman that homosexuality, or pedophilia, or sado-masochistic sex are 'healthy' because science has no concept of 'healthy sex' that is not values-laden."
 

Terminator

First Grade
Messages
6,303
Exactly, once something is pushed forward as normal, you get all the weakbrains starting to doubt what is right or not, for Levine to say having sexual contact with a child makes a person not a paedophile, makes me wonder how a woman could say this?
 

salivor

First Grade
Messages
9,804
You want my answer? Yes I think it should be taken off the list because I don't believe it's a mental disorder. There is a difference here, paedophilia is sexual abuse. Homosexuality is sex between two consenting male adults. You can twist it however you like goangod but your nothing but a homophobe and a waste of mine and most people's time here.
 

salivor

First Grade
Messages
9,804
Ok so why don't you join the Klan as well termy, just because most of us have embraced racial harmony doesn't mean you have to.
 

ozcrusader

Bench
Messages
4,915
salivor said:
You want my answer? Yes I think it should be taken off the list because I don't believe it's a mental disorder. There is a difference here, paedophilia is sexual abuse. Homosexuality is sex between two consenting male adults.

Thank you for your answer - after lots of evasion.

You are correct in stating that homosexuality is between consenting male adults. And equally correct in stating that pedophilia is abuse. But are they linked? Is consent the only difference?

What if a 5 yr old child consents to sex? Does that make it ok?

If homosexuality and pedophilia arent linked, please explain the following:

  • In Europe, homosexual activists are openly lobbying for the abolition of age of consent laws so they can freely sodomize children. The British homosexual group OutRage! is one of many groups working to legalize adult/child sex. The Dutch Association for the Integration of Homosexuality (DAIH) has lobbied in Holland for an end to the prohibition against adult/child sex.

    In the U.S. one of the homosexual movement's latest efforts to promote child molestation is the launching of the magazine XY, which is targeted to 12-29 year old homosexual boys and men. In one recent issue, it advocated the abolition of age of consent laws. In another, it presented a sympathetic interview with a NAMBLA member.

    Male Inter-Generational Intimacy: Historical Socio-Psychological, and Legal Perspectives, edited by Edward Brongersma (an admitted pedophile) and two colleagues. This book is available in the "gay studies" section of stores like Borders.

    This book actually grew out of two issues of the Journal of Homosexuality published in 1990. The Journal editor is John DeCecco, a psychologist at San Francisco State University. DeCecco is also on the board of Paidika, the Dutch journal that promotes pedophilia as normal sexual behavior.

    The Age Taboo: Gay Male Sexuality, Power and Consent, published by Alyson Publications, one of the nation's largest homosexual publishing companies. The Age Taboo contains numerous essays on "man/boy love," including one written by NAMBLA (North American Man-Boy Love Association) entitled, "The Case for Abolishing Age of Consent Laws."

So is there a link or not? And if there is no link, why do these homosexual groups and publications contain pedophile content? I would be interested in your response.

Secondly, the Judeo-Christian principle of marriage is between one man and one woman for the purpose of procreation. Homosexual activists wan to reject that definition of marriage to be between 'two people' - as they have done successfully in Canada.

Fine.

But if we then change it for this reason, then why cant the legal definition of marriage be between 3 men? Or 6 men and 8 women? And shouldnt all these people be entitled legally to all the benefits of marriage? Who are we to impose our outdated morality on polygamists? I would be interested in your response.
 

Terminator

First Grade
Messages
6,303
This is sad news Goangod, if I see this ever happening in Australia..

And Salivor you embrace whatever you like, just don't count on it embracing you back.
 

salivor

First Grade
Messages
9,804
The evasion was because I knew exactly where you wanted to take it and I didn't want to give you the opportunity to twist my words and you've headed exactly where I thought you were.

Consent is the main difference but not the only. The oxford dictionary states paedophilia as sexual desire directed towards children. It does not define between the same sex or between males. That’s because when people think of paedophilia they think of men playing with little boys. Paedophilia can be between a woman and a boy, between a man and a girl, between a woman and a girl as well. Yet I don't see you comparing heterosexuality to paedophilia? Doesn't suit your argument does it?

I really don't care what the article you have posted says. The author does not share my opinion and while I can't speak for your average homosexual, being heterosexual myself, groups like these poorly represent the gay community.
 

jilliby kitty

Juniors
Messages
770
so where did you find your copy of NAMBLA uuuuummm good father trick'em'ups office :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 8)
 

ozcrusader

Bench
Messages
4,915
salivor said:
Consent is the main difference but not the only. The oxford dictionary states paedophilia as sexual desire directed towards children. It does not define between the same sex or between males. That’s because when people think of paedophilia they think of men playing with little boys. Paedophilia can be between a woman and a boy, between a man and a girl, between a woman and a girl as well. Yet I don't see you comparing heterosexuality to paedophilia? Doesn't suit your argument does it?

Agreed - pedophilia does not have to be male-male - and neither have stated it does.

Here's some interesting stats for you:
A report by the American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children states: "In both clinical and non-clinical samples, the vast majority of offenders are male." The book "Sexual Offending Against Children" reports that only 12 of 3,000 incarcerated pedophiles in England were women.

* Homosexuals are over-represented in child sex offenses: Individuals from the 1 to 3 percent of the population that is sexually attracted to the same sex are committing up to one-third of the sex crimes against children. A study in the Journal of Sex Research found that although heterosexuals outnumber homosexuals by a ratio of at least 20 to 1, homosexual pedophiles commit about one-third of the total number of child sex offenses.



I really don't care what the article you have posted says. The author does not share my opinion and while I can't speak for your average homosexual, being heterosexual myself, groups like these poorly represent the gay community.

Of course you dont - because you cant refute it.
The author isnt quoting an opinion - they are mentioning facts - which still stand.


Interestingly, I noticed how you again tried to evade another question:

Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 4:03 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Secondly, the Judeo-Christian principle of marriage is between one man and one woman for the purpose of procreation. Homosexual activists wan to reject that definition of marriage to be between 'two people' - as they have done successfully in Canada.

Fine.

But if we then change it for this reason, then why cant the legal definition of marriage be between 3 men? Or 6 men and 8 women? And shouldnt all these people be entitled legally to all the benefits of marriage? Who are we to impose our outdated morality on polygamists? I would be interested in your response.

And lastly, have you heard of Matthew Sheppard?
 

brook

First Grade
Messages
5,065
goangod said:
And lastly, have you heard of Matthew Sheppard?

I will bite to this one

I would assume most people have heard of him but I am interested in hearing what your reasoning is for bringing him up...
 

ozcrusader

Bench
Messages
4,915
brook said:
goangod said:
And lastly, have you heard of Matthew Sheppard?

I will bite to this one

I would assume most people have heard of him but I am interested in hearing what your reasoning is for bringing him up...

Well then Brook you would acknowledge that this case recieved world wide media saturation and press coverage?

It made the cover of Time magazine with the headline "The War Over Gays," with reporters predictably using the occasion to blame religious conservatives and call for hate-crime laws and other gay-left agenda items. There were media memorials, candleight campaigns, etc etc

Would you agree with this?

However, I am prepared to bet that you have never heard of Jesse Dirkhising died on September 26 at the age of 13?

The facts of the case are these:
The details are sickening: On Sept. 26, 1999, Jesse was at the Rogers, Ark., home of a family friend, 39-year-old Davis Carpenter, and Carpenter's roommate and alleged gay lover, 23-year-old Joshua Brown. According to a local Associated Press account, prosecutor Bob Balfe told jurors Wednesday that "the boy had been given a strong sedative, then restrained while his own underwear was stuffed into his mouth and held in place with duct tape. Brown then folded Jesse into position atop a bed while supporting the boy's body with pillows."

"While Jesse was bound and helpless and naked in this position ... he was repeatedly raped ... over a period of hours," Balfe said. "Jesse slowly suffocated and died." The prosecution says Brown raped and sodomized Jesse with various objects, including food, while Carpenter stood in the bedroom doorway watching and masturbating. According to a police affidavit, Brown took a break from the assault to eat a sandwich. When he returned, prosecutors say, he discovered that Jesse was not breathing. Carpenter then called police, who found the boy naked and near death on a bedroom floor.

Police gathered evidence from the men's apartment that included lurid drawings showing a bound person, written descriptions of a homosexual assault, pieces of paper describing objects with which Jesse was sodomized, and a printed grocery receipt listing duct tape and other items found near Jesse's body. The defense will argue that Jesse -- outnumbered, overpowered, overdosed, and strapped helplessly to a mattress -- was a willing and consenting participant in this sexual torment

No media memorials for Jesse Dirkhising. No candelight vigils, human righrs campaigns, stories in TIME etc etc. You might think that this is a run of the mill murder case - but it doesnt end there.

You see, not one major news organisation picked up and ran the story - it was ignored collectively,by the mainstream press.
(http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/WorldNewsTonight/wnt010410_dirkhising_feature.html)

However, I bet my bottom dollar, had Jesse he been openly gay and his attackers heterosexual, the crime would have led all the networks. But no liberal media outlet would dare be the first to tell a grisly murder story which has as its villains two gay men.

Why was the Matthew Shepard's death given so much coverage? But the death of a 13yr old boy at the hands of two gay pedophiles ignored?
 

bazza

Immortal
Messages
30,056
Some interesting facts can be found at this site http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm

It lists the age of consent laws in various countries.

You will find in some countris/states male-male sex is illegal (including a number of states in the US)

The main age for heterosexual seems to be 16 or 18 - though a fair few countries have different ages for males and females.

Interesting a strongly Catholic contry, Mexico, has an age of consent of 12 years old.

I see no problem with people bringing the age of consent for homosexuals into line with that of heterosexuals. Debate on what the age should be is always contentious. I think 12 is too young though obviously Catholics in Mexico don't have a problem with this
 

salivor

First Grade
Messages
9,804
Agreed - paedophilia does not have to be male-male - and neither have stated it does.

Here's some interesting stats for you:
Quote:
A report by the American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children states: "In both clinical and non-clinical samples, the vast majority of offenders are male." The book "Sexual Offending Against Children" reports that only 12 of 3,000 incarcerated paedophiles in England were women.


Quote:
* Homosexuals are over-represented in child sex offences: Individuals from the 1 to 3 percent of the population that is sexually attracted to the same sex are committing up to one-third of the sex crimes against children. A study in the Journal of Sex Research found that although heterosexuals outnumber homosexuals by a ratio of at least 20 to 1, homosexual paedophiles commit about one-third of the total number of child sex offences.

Good to see that you realise that. Why then are you not comparing heterosexuality to paedophilia? Please answer me that one.

Why don't you just come out and state exactly where your going with all this goangod instead of posting tons of irrelevant facts. I'm tired of being f**ked around with all this because you can't get to a point.

You paedophile stats are a waste of time because in case you haven't realised paedophiles and homosexuals are two different things. I know that may come as a shock to you because lets face it this is where your leading. You want to tar all homosexuals with the same brush. Your stats have already shown two thirds of paedophiles are heterosexual so hey lets persecute them as well. Lets ban all sexual relations because hey if we show any signs of sexuality we could become paedophiles so its better to stop sex and kill off the human race and give the animals a go at it. I hear they have far less homosexuals so they maybe able to wipe out paedophilia all together where humans have failed. Just a thought.

Secondly, the Judeo-Christian principle of marriage is between one man and one woman for the purpose of procreation. Homosexual activists wan to reject that definition of marriage to be between 'two people' - as they have done successfully in Canada.

Fine.

But if we then change it for this reason, then why cant the legal definition of marriage be between 3 men? Or 6 men and 8 women? And shouldn’t all these people be entitled legally to all the benefits of marriage? Who are we to impose our outdated morality on polygamists? I would be interested in your response.

And lastly, have you heard of Matthew Sheppard?

Did you ever just stop and think why I ignored this part? Just a hint, just quietly. You may not have noticed but we're not debating homosexual marriage. I never mentioned it, I haven't given my view on it, for all you know I'm against it. Its got nothing to do with the topic. I know its been a real strain on you in this argument goangod trying to stick the argument we started with. I wish you the best in trying to do so but I know it won't last long.

Matthew Sheppard. They homosexual teenager that was beaten to death? There’s obviously a motive behind you bringing this up. Let me guess he was a paedophile as well?
 

Moffo

Referee
Messages
23,986
ill be honest and upfront, i think that to be gay is a lifestyle choice. I know not everyone agrees, but i think its up to the individual on what they think of the issue.

I think that a guy can be 'feminine' - or metrosexual, as they call it in Sydney now (to have female characteristics without being gay). In some ways, id probably qualify as a metro :lol:

But the point is, whether its 17% or 7%, we still have a lot of gays in this country. And one has to ask why. We do live in one of the great free countries, high standard of living, people are generally allowed to do as they please. Sydney in particular. And i think that that has some correlation to the number of gay people in Sydney. The 'alternative' lifestyle as such is quite popular, anything goes in Sydney and people will do what they want to be happy. And if that means going for a guy instead of a girl, then shit oath, they will do it.

I just can't be convinced that people are born liking people of the same sex. Sorry if i offend anyone with that belief, but i strongly believe in it. As i said before, i probably am a bit 'metrosexual' in some ways (ie: i do care about how i look), but i definitely don't go for guys. The people who go for guys (IMO at least), take their metrosexual tendencies and lifestyle choice/desires to the next level.

Cheers,
Moffo
 

salivor

First Grade
Messages
9,804
I'm actually quite shocked by that moffo as I was under the impression you actually had an open mind. As it turns out your no better than these people who say things like "you just need to take your mind off it, try something like karate, that'll surely fix it".
Have you ever for a second considered the cruelty and abuse a lot of homosexuals receive from many of their peers and in a lot of cases their family? Its hardly an attractive choice and many wish they weren't the way they were because society has made sure its ingrained into us at an early age that to be homosexual is to be abnormal.

Of course not, you'd rather look at the homosexual stereotype. The "queen" that’s openly gay, very effeminate and very opinionated. Yes all gay people are like that aren't they moffo? Living the alternative lifestyle, having a ball. No gay person could be like me or you, of course no homosexuals spend years in unhappy marriages because their too afraid to let society know how they feel.

You can't change what sex you’re sexually attracted to. It’s not your choice; I didn't choose to be attracted to females, that’s the way I was born. I didn't just wake up one day and weigh up the pros and cons of which sex to be attracted to. We don't understand why some people are born attracted to the same sex and we all know that what we don't know about we're afraid of. We'd rather persecute them because of this fear of the unknown. We're so damn threatened, if you’re quite comfortable in your heterosexuality what have you got to be threatened of?
 

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