The world's gayest nation

[ozcrusader]

just to cut to the chase though

goangod

what do you think should happen?

should homosexuality be punished by law?

what about things like oral sex?

should these things be condemned also?

Firstly, homosexuality should not be promoted as an alternative sexual lifestyle or choice on equal footing with heterosexuality - it isn't. All our efforts should go into promoting the heterosexual nuclear family as the ideal stable family unit.

Having said that, a secular state has the responsibility to ensure that all its citizens enjoy univeral human rights - homosexuals are no different. I would draw the line at homosexual marriage and homosexual adoption though, for several reasons.

Secondly, the age of consent for both homosexuals and heterosexuals should be raised to 18. Pedophiles then, will have absolutely not a leg to stand on.

Lastly, this is a generational change - we have had 3 generations now brought up with the idea that homosexuality is just fine and dandy - it will take time to change this attitude.

 

[RifRaf]

Australia has over 90,000 abortions a year and is now the world's gayest nation.....and yet we still have the left bleating "Why is our birth rate so low?" :roll:

with respect I think you'll find most of us leftys see a lower birth rate as a positive keeping our population and sustainable levels

Its normally the right who bleat about the need to increase our population.

As for the rest, I doubt Australia (or America) has a great deal (if any) more homosexuals per population than anywhere else in the world - simply with less persecution we have a lot more willing to stand up and be open about it.

Still if we do I can't see how its any business of anyone elses.

Ahh the voice of reason..... Well said Brook..

 

[JoeD]

In fact, only a handful of priests technically are pedophiles (sexually involved with children under ten or eleven). More might be inclined to ephebophilia, an attraction to pubescent and post-pubescent youth.

Hang on, now you seem to have changed the definition of pedophilia. I was assuming it applied to sex with anyone under the age of consent, now you are saying it applies only to sex with someone under 10 or 11. Lots of the articles posted by you refer to sex with 'boys' but we have no idea how old they mean. Does it make any difference anyway? I don't know why you would want to defend anyone who has sex with a minor, if he is a preist or not.

 

[ozcrusader]

Males are more likely to be raped by heterosexual males than females or homosexuals.
Add to that the majority of victims are females and the majority of offenders are males which would indicate that the males are heterosexuals especially since heterosexuals are more likely to commit rape than homosexuals.

Salivor - :lol: - you have got to be kidding me!!

Now look, I know you obviously went to a lot of trouble with that post, but honestly - Obviously most rapes and assualts will be carried out by heterosexuals - because they make up over 90-95% of the population.

What you havent been able to disprove is that homosexuals are overrepresented in abuse cases. That is - if they make up only a small percentage of the population - 5-10% - then statistically, you would expect them to be involved in a similar proportion of abuse cases. But instead - they are involved in 33% of all abuse cases. It is this disproportionate overrepresentation which you choose to ignore. ((Freund and Watson, 1992) which was reported in the Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy, NARTH)

Predictability is your main problem goangod. You know what polygamy is a ok by me I've decided. As many people can get married as they like.

Thank you - for once again proving my point. Now that we have accepted homosexuality, then we must accept polygamy too. Great - now we can have one 65 year old man married to 5 16 year old boys - enjoying the full protection of the law.

No paedophiles because sorry but that is illegal.

You mean - it's illegal now.

" the release of the 1972 Gay Rights Platform. Activists in Chicago, representing the fledgling homosexual movement, demanded the “repeal of all state laws prohibiting private sexual acts involving consenting persons,” and the “repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent""

Now why would these people do that? Hmm?

Its ok to be attracted to children at birth.

Salivor - You have just destroyed any credibility you have with that statement. It is not OK to be attracted to children at birth - it is sick, disordered, unnatural, deviant and anything else you can think of.

This is where you are Salivor - justifying the right of pedophiles to be attracted to children.

You can't change how you were born. Whats not ok to do is to act out on this attraction to children because this is when it becomes illegal and sexual abuse. Children don't have the maturity to consent to sex.

That's merely your opinion. Dont impose your beliefs on others.

Firstly, where is your proof that homosexuals are born homosexual? There is no biological, hormonal or genetic evidence to substantiate this claim. There has never been confirmed evidence of the existence of a "homosexual gene." Doctors have NO test which will tell them if a person is a homosexual or not.

I really don't care what certain homosexual groups are promoting.

No, of course you wouldnt. I cannot make it any more clear the close relationship between homosexuality and pedophilia and the parallels in their social acceptance.

Race relations were also in about the same place 30 years ago. Now if I say interracial marriages and sexual relations is un-natural I'll be branded a racist yet its ok for you to come out and be openly homophobic.
Are you disappointed now that these days we look down on racists? What about women’s rights? They've come along way. I suppose 100 years ago if you told people that women would be in some of the most powerful positions in the world and be totally independent they'd think you were a nutball.

Sorry Salivor - where your argument falls down is that homosexuality is a behaviour, not a race. Homosexuality is defined by the act of sodomy (sex with members of the same sex).

The difference as I've said a million times is that homosexual relations is between consenting adults and paedophilia isn't. I will always have the opinion that paedophilia is wrong.

Uh uh. I see where you're coming from so its consent that makes the difference then? What if Salivor, one person gave another person their consent to kill them? This is 'consensual' - would you consider this legal and acceptable behaviour because one party has 'consented'?


Also, if homosexuality is a valid, life giving, alternative lifestyle, would you please explain why Oxford University's International Journal of Epidemiology reported: "Life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for all men -- nearly half of gay and bisexual men currently aged 20 years will not reach their 65th birthday."

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) found that male homosexuals contract the following diseases more frequently than heterosexuals by the following multiples:
Syphilis - 14 times
Gonorrhea - 3 times
Genital warts - 3 times
Hepatitis B - 8 times
Scabies - 5 times
Penile infection - 30 times
Anal Infection - 100 times
AIDS - 5000 times

 

[ozcrusader]

In fact, only a handful of priests technically are pedophiles (sexually involved with children under ten or eleven). More might be inclined to ephebophilia, an attraction to pubescent and post-pubescent youth.

Hang on, now you seem to have changed the definition of pedophilia. I was assuming it applied to sex with anyone under the age of consent, now you are saying it applies only to sex with someone under 10 or 11. Lots of the articles posted by you refer to sex with 'boys' but we have no idea how old they mean. Does it make any difference anyway? I don't know why you would want to defend anyone who has sex with a minor, if he is a preist or not.

Joe, I think you have misunderstood me - I shall try to be more clear.

The definition of pedophilia - a sexual attraction to boys and girls who have not reached puberty.
The definition of ephebophilia - recurrent, intense sexual interest in post-pubescent young people -- teen-agers.

What I am saying is that majority of abuse cases within the Church are not pedophilia - they do not involve pre pubescent children. They involve teenagers who are overwhelmingly male - this is not pedophilia - it is homosexuality.

And I do not know how you came to the conclusion that I am defending anyone - all these types of behaviours I consider gravely disordered.

 

[Anonymous]

There is a connection between the church and paedophilia... it certainly has been in the news a lot....
Are priests prone to committing sexual abuse?
It seems that while we're tarring the brush, we may as well go the full hog and generalise about the priesthood as well.

I was waiting for someone to bring this up - I'm touched that it was you Willow

Judging by the numerous abuse cases in Australia, the UK, the US and other places, you would definitely come to that conclusion. Abuse of minors is a big problem in the Catholic Church.
Is it accurate to describe these sexual offenses as "pedophilia"?There are several reasons that it should be looked at in the broader context of homosexuality.

a) In almost all cases, the victims are teens, not children.

b) In almost all cases, the victims are boys, not girls.

c) Among homosexual males, the behavior doesn't begin in adulthood. Often he's "initiated" as an adolescent.

That isnt pedophilia - its homosexuality.

I'll leave others to draw their own conclusions from that but it seems that you made a clear distinction between the clergy and homosexuality.

You say that there are numerous abuses cases for both groups but it seems that you are mainly interested in what the gays are getting up to. This being because you have a moral objection to there being homosexuals... but apparently have no moral objection to there being Priests.

But let's look at the things more closely:

Yeah why not, I've got all day.

Personally, I don't think everyone in the church is a sexual deviate but I'm sure I could scour the internet and put up an argument which would vilfy the whole Priesthood... but I wouldnt do that because in basic terms, I dont harbour prejudice against Priests.

You on the other hand, have an obvious prejudice towards homosexuality and imo, this makes it difficult for you to present a balanced argument.

In all, Your post was an interesting array of contradiction and homophobia.

And what about gay clergymen/women? Do you consider these individuals to be prone to sexual abuse as well? Seems like that qualifies as a double whammy.

As mentioned to Salivor above, women comprise only a tiny minority of child abuse cases - for both heterosexuals and homosexuals.

I wasnt talking about women in particular.. I was referring to the clergy as a whole.
My understanding is that most cases of abuse involve men abusing young girls... no doubt these are perverted hetrosexuals.

Whats your opinion of homosexuals being appointed to high positions in the church?

It's plainly ridiculous.
Christian precepts preclude homosexuality as a valid lifestyle. Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism - all of them condemn homosexual acts.

Well perhaps it's time for the church to broaden its horizons. Homosexuality is not new and its not going to go away either.
I'm sure many christians will disagree with your handle on all this... and there are many gays who are christians - but my guess is that most would keep this fact to themselves.

 

[salivor]

Salivor - - you have got to be kidding me!!

Now look, I know you obviously went to a lot of trouble with that post, but honestly - Obviously most rapes and assualts will be carried out by heterosexuals - because they make up over 90-95% of the population.

What you havent been able to disprove is that homosexuals are overrepresented in abuse cases. That is - if they make up only a small percentage of the population - 5-10% - then statistically, you would expect them to be involved in a similar proportion of abuse cases. But instead - they are involved in 33% of all abuse cases. It is this disproportionate overrepresentation which you choose to ignore. ((Freund and Watson, 1992) which was reported in the Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy, NARTH)

What you won't tell me is why does it matter that homosexuals are over-represented in child abuse cases? Basically it comes down you trying to tar all homosexuals with the paedophile brush which is absolute crap and even in your deluded state you know that.

You can ignore my facts, that’s fine. They are at least sourced which most of yours aren't. You just keep throwing them up without sources and that’s fine. I might just have to start peddling crap as well to suit my agenda.

Thank you - for once again proving my point. Now that we have accepted homosexuality, then we must accept polygamy too. Great - now we can have one 65 year old man married to 5 16 year old boys - enjoying the full protection of the law.

I like the way you use a homosexual example. Is it all that different to a 65 year old man living with 5 16 year old girls? Oh that’s right, they would be having "natural" sexual relations so its not as bad.

You mean - it's illegal now.

" the release of the 1972 Gay Rights Platform. Activists in Chicago, representing the fledgling homosexual movement, demanded the “repeal of all state laws prohibiting private sexual acts involving consenting persons,” and the “repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent""

Now why would these people do that? Hmm?

It would actually be nice if you could read my posts. If you had you would see that I don't care what these certain groups are promoting. They don't represent me. By your logic being a white male means I must obviously share many of the same views that the KKK does.

Salivor - You have just destroyed any credibility you have with that statement. It is not OK to be attracted to children at birth - it is sick, disordered, unnatural, deviant and anything else you can think of.

This is where you are Salivor - justifying the right of pedophiles to be attracted to children.

I'm pretty sure in the next bit where I quote you, you say not to force your beliefs on others. You can't change the way you are born. If someone is born disfigured can we say they are sick and unnatural? If someone is born with sexual desires towards children then its not their fault. Thankfully we have laws in place that try to prevent these individuals from acting out on these desires. Maybe you might want to ask your creator why he creates individuals with sexual desires for children at birth? Oh that’s right, its the gay movement that is brain washing the nation to accept paedophiles. Your sounding more and more like a lefty with those kind of conspiracy theories.

That's merely your opinion. Dont impose your beliefs on others.

Firstly, where is your proof that homosexuals are born homosexual? There is no biological, hormonal or genetic evidence to substantiate this claim. There has never been confirmed evidence of the existence of a "homosexual gene." Doctors have NO test which will tell them if a person is a homosexual or not.

If scientists can't find a gene that determines homosexuality then I take it they also can't find a gene that determines heterosexuality. We could go down the whole medical route but that breaks off into another subject on its own.

No, of course you wouldnt. I cannot make it any more clear the close relationship between homosexuality and pedophilia and the parallels in their social acceptance.

I've already answered this. You know seeing you use the word quite regularly you might want to learn how to spell paedophilia. It might show that you actually have some understanding of the matter. I also find it very interesting that you only seem to be targeting male homosexuality. Maybe its because you don't have any handy stats to make any links to such things with Lesbians.

Sorry Salivor - where your argument falls down is that homosexuality is a behaviour, not a race. Homosexuality is defined by the act of sodomy (sex with members of the same sex).

Homosexuality is not a behaviour. To be a homosexual you don't ever have to have had sex with a member of the same sex. You don't ever have to have dated a member of the same sex or have even told anyone that your are a homosexual. To be a homosexual you have to have a sexual attraction to the same sex. I know a couple of times in this thread I have said that homosexuality is between consenting adults but thats a bit of a simplistic definition, what I've stated above is more specific.

Uh uh. I see where you're coming from so its consent that makes the difference then? What if Salivor, one person gave another person their consent to kill them? This is 'consensual' - would you consider this legal and acceptable behaviour because one party has 'consented'?


Also, if homosexuality is a valid, life giving, alternative lifestyle, would you please explain why Oxford University's International Journal of Epidemiology reported: "Life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for all men -- nearly half of gay and bisexual men currently aged 20 years will not reach their 65th birthday."

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) found that male homosexuals contract the following diseases more frequently than heterosexuals by the following multiples:
Syphilis - 14 times
Gonorrhea - 3 times
Genital warts - 3 times
Hepatitis B - 8 times
Scabies - 5 times
Penile infection - 30 times
Anal Infection - 100 times
AIDS - 5000 times

So now we should ban homosexuality because its not healthy for us lol. I've really heard it all now. I'm glad to see your so concerned for them. We still live in a society that largely accepts smoking. We have never really attempted to ban smoking all together despite the proven dangers it causes.

Of course it is not right to consent to murder because its been clearly defined that murder is illegal by the law. I would’ve thought that was pretty obvious after hearing my stand on paedophilia. I support euthanasia with strict guidelines but that’s dipping into another matter entirely.

 

[brook]

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) found that male homosexuals contract the following diseases more frequently than heterosexuals by the following multiples:
Syphilis - 14 times
Gonorrhea - 3 times
Genital warts - 3 times
Hepatitis B - 8 times
Scabies - 5 times
Penile infection - 30 times
Anal Infection - 100 times
AIDS - 5000 times

I'd be willing to hazard a guess that lesbians have a much lower rate of most if not all of the above diseases than hetrosexual women

does that mean its only male homosexuality we should be concerned about?

 

[Dean Moriarty]

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) found that male homosexuals contract the following diseases more frequently than heterosexuals by the following multiples:
Syphilis - 14 times
Gonorrhea - 3 times
Genital warts - 3 times
Hepatitis B - 8 times
Scabies - 5 times
Penile infection - 30 times
Anal Infection - 100 times
AIDS - 5000 times

I'd guess those are US only figures. AIDS is a predominantly heterosexual disease in Africa (or at least it was 5 years ago - I doubt it has changed since).

 

[JoeD]

OK then by your way of thinking then these 'gay' clergymen are more than likely to be pedophiles as well. I still have a problem with your change of tune when it comes to the church. Throughout this thread you have tried to persuade us of a link between homosexuality and pedophilia - not once mentioning this other thing - ephebophilia.

. . . majority of abuse cases within the Church are not pedophilia - they do not involve pre pubescent children. They involve teenagers who are overwhelmingly male - this is not pedophilia - it is homosexuality.

Sorry I think that is wrong. Homosexuality is consentual sex between adults of the same sex, not minors.

 

[ozcrusader]

What you won't tell me is why does it matter that homosexuals are over-represented in child abuse cases? Basically it comes down you trying to tar all homosexuals with the paedophile brush which is absolute crap and even in your deluded state you know that.

lol are you serious?
It doesnt matter Salivor - not one bit. :roll:

You love stating truisms dont you Salivor? Obviously most child abuse is committed by heterosexuals just as obviously not all homosexuals are pedophiles - but the link between homosexuality and pedophilia still stands unrefuted.

I like the way you use a homosexual example. Is it all that different to a 65 year old man living with 5 16 year old girls? Oh that’s right, they would be having "natural" sexual relations so its not as bad.

lol- now Salivor you are really getting desparate.
Either one would be terrible - yet since we are talking about homosexuality here, therefore the choice was appropriate. I'm not the one defending either of them - you are.

It would actually be nice if you could read my posts. If you had you would see that I don't care what these certain groups are promoting. They don't represent me. By your logic being a white male means I must obviously share many of the same views that the KKK does.

We can agree to disagree on the homosexuality - pedophilia link.

I'm pretty sure in the next bit where I quote you, you say not to force your beliefs on others. You can't change the way you are born. If someone is born disfigured can we say they are sick and unnatural? If someone is born with sexual desires towards children then its not their fault.

Again, homosexuality is a behaviour. Being born disfigured is not - being born black is not, being born a woman is not. These are states.

Thankfully we have laws in place that try to prevent these individuals from acting out on these desires. Maybe you might want to ask your creator why he creates individuals with sexual desires for children at birth? Oh that’s right, its the gay movement that is brain washing the nation to accept paedophiles. Your sounding more and more like a lefty with those kind of conspiracy theories.

Salivor, you are making unsupported claims here. Please cite your evidence that people are born as either homosexual or as pedophiles?
I dont see any - perhaps because there is none.

If scientists can't find a gene that determines homosexuality then I take it they also can't find a gene that determines heterosexuality. We could go down the whole medical route but that breaks off into another subject on its own.

Exactly my point - which proves that homosexuality is a behaviour - its not genetic, its an acquired behaviour.

I've already answered this. You know seeing you use the word quite regularly you might want to learn how to spell paedophilia. It might show that you actually have some understanding of the matter. I also find it very interesting that you only seem to be targeting male homosexuality. Maybe its because you don't have any handy stats to make any links to such things with Lesbians.

Salivor Salivor Salivor.

Does this mean you have no understanding of the matter?

Miriam Webster Online Dictionary
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

Search text: pedophilia.

One entry found for pedophilia.

Main Entry: pe·do·phil·ia
Pronunciation: "pE-d&-'fi-lE-&
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin
Date: 1906
: sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object
- pe·do·phil·i·ac /-'fi-lE-"ak/ or pe·do·phil·ic /-'fi-lik/ adjective

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Search text: paedophilia.

The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the Dictionary search box to the right.

Suggestions for paedophilia:
1. pedophilia

In all fairness though, I have seen both variations used.

Of course it is not right to consent to murder because its been clearly defined that murder is illegal by the law. I would’ve thought that was pretty obvious after hearing my stand on paedophilia. I support euthanasia with strict guidelines but that’s dipping into another matter entirely

Exactly- because despite consent, the act of muder is morally wrong.

This is the same with homosexuality - despite consent, the act is morally wrong.

Your only differentiator between homosexuality and pedophilia is consent,
but despite consent, the act is morally wrong. Hence homosexuality is morally wrong.

So now we should ban homosexuality because its not healthy for us lol. I've really heard it all now. I'm glad to see your so concerned for them. We still live in a society that largely accepts smoking. We have never really attempted to ban smoking all together despite the proven dangers it causes.

Mate, this is too easy - you are making all my points for me.
Let me spell it out for you: homosexuality is promoted as an alternative to heterosexuality - a healthy, normal and natural alternative.

Yet significantly, as the data proves, it is not.

Therefore, what is being promoted is false. Your smoking example is perfect - smoking companies are no longer allowed to advertise or promote cigarettes in many places. We know the health risks and smoking is now banned in most places. That is - because we know the health risks, smoking is not promoted as a healthy lifestyle alternative.

Yet- we know the health risks of homosexuality - so why is that being promoted as a healthy lifestyle alternative?

 

[Anonymous]

I've already answered this. You know seeing you use the word quite regularly you might want to learn how to spell paedophilia. It might show that you actually have some understanding of the matter. I also find it very interesting that you only seem to be targeting male homosexuality. Maybe its because you don't have any handy stats to make any links to such things with Lesbians.

Salivor Salivor Salivor.

Does this mean you have no understanding of the matter?

Miriam Webster Online Dictionary
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

Search text: pedophilia.

One entry found for pedophilia.

Main Entry: pe·do·phil·ia
Pronunciation: "pE-d&-'fi-lE-&
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin
Date: 1906
: sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object
- pe·do·phil·i·ac /-'fi-lE-"ak/ or pe·do·phil·ic /-'fi-lik/ adjective

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Search text: paedophilia.

The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the Dictionary search box to the right.

Suggestions for paedophilia:
1. pedophilia

In all fairness though, I have seen both variations used.

My understanding is that paedophilia is the older correct spelling while pedophilia is an American corruption which has made its way into correct spelling as well.
Like Encyclopaedia and Encyclopedia.
And to think that this was pointed out without being a condescending smart arse.... amazing.

 

[ozcrusader]

I'd be willing to hazard a guess that lesbians have a much lower rate of most if not all of the above diseases than hetrosexual women

does that mean its only male homosexuality we should be concerned about?

Brook - good question.

http://www.dhs.vic.gov.au/phd/macglh/downloads/difference.pdf
From the Victorian governments website:

Rates of transmission and the prevalence of STIs among women who have sex with women (WSW) are unknown
Unlike studies of gay and other homosexually active men, there has been little research into the behavioural and cultural determinants of
patterns and rates of STIs among lesbians and little accessible information regarding safer sex practices for them.

STIs are common in the lesbian community. In one US study of lesbian health, about one third of the women had had an STI while in a similar survey, 17 per cent of respondents had had onor more STIs.

(Executive Summary, "Health Implications Associated with Homosexuality," 1999, by Medical Institute of Sexual Health;

"Homosexual men are at significantly increased risk of HIV/AIDS, hepatitis, anal cancer, gonorrhea and gastrointestinal infections as a result of their sexual practices. ...Women who have sex with women are at significantly increased risk of bacterial vaginosis, breast cancer and ovarian cancer than are heterosexual women."

 

[salivor]

lol are you serious?
It doesnt matter Salivor - not one bit.

You love stating truisms dont you Salivor? Obviously most child abuse is committed by heterosexuals just as obviously not all homosexuals are pedophiles - but the link between homosexuality and pedophilia still stands unrefuted.

There’s also a link between males and rape. There’s a link between Maoris and crime. Should we wipe out both males and Maoris because of those links? Your right it doesn't matter - not one bit.

lol- now Salivor you are really getting desparate.
Either one would be terrible - yet since we are talking about homosexuality here, therefore the choice was appropriate. I'm not the one defending either of them - you are.

Oh polygamy is so terrible isn't it goangod? Society has fully accepted Hugh Hefner, a guy who has 5 playboy bunnies living with him that he picks and choses from. Oh the humanity of it all :lol: .

We can agree to disagree on the homosexuality - pedophilia link.

No, I agree there is a link. What we can agree to disagree on is what its actual worth in this debate is i.e. none.

Salivor, you are making unsupported claims here. Please cite your evidence that people are born as either homosexual or as pedophiles?
I dont see any - perhaps because there is none.
Exactly my point - which proves that homosexuality is a behaviour - its not genetic, its an acquired behaviour.

Ok I've grouped these next lot of quotes from you together. I'd just like to ask one thing here: If homosexuality is an acquired behaviour, is heterosexuality an acquired behaviour? You seem very hesitant to touch on that one.

Salivor Salivor Salivor.

Does this mean you have no understanding of the matter?

Miriam Webster Online Dictionary
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

Search text: pedophilia.

One entry found for pedophilia.

Main Entry: pe•do•phil•ia
Pronunciation: "pE-d&-'fi-lE-&
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin
Date: 1906
: sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object
- pe•do•phil•i•ac /-'fi-lE-"ak/ or pe•do•phil•ic /-'fi-lik/ adjective

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Search text: paedophilia.

The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the Dictionary search box to the right.

Suggestions for paedophilia:
1. pedophilia

In all fairness though, I have seen both variations used.

It is spelt paedophilia under New Zealand and Australian English. You are Australian aren't you?

Exactly- because despite consent, the act of muder is morally wrong.

This is the same with homosexuality - despite consent, the act is morally wrong.

Your only differentiator between homosexuality and pedophilia is consent,
but despite consent, the act is morally wrong. Hence homosexuality is morally wrong.

No, under Christian and other religious morals it is "morally" wrong. Not under mine and a lot of other peoples morals. So shove your morally wrong crap where you know where.

Mate, this is too easy - you are making all my points for me.
Let me spell it out for you: homosexuality is promoted as an alternative to heterosexuality - a healthy, normal and natural alternative.

Yet significantly, as the data proves, it is not.

Therefore, what is being promoted is false. Your smoking example is perfect - smoking companies are no longer allowed to advertise or promote cigarettes in many places. We know the health risks and smoking is now banned in most places. That is - because we know the health risks, smoking is not promoted as a healthy lifestyle alternative.

Yet- we know the health risks of homosexuality - so why is that being promoted as a healthy lifestyle alternative?

We also know the health risks of heterosexuality, why is this being promoted as a healthy lifestyle on a much larger scale? I think Brook has touched on it perfectly. Lesbian women probably have a much lower contraction of the diseases you posted than heterosexual women. Also with AIDS, Africa is the worst affected continent and as has been said it’s a largely heterosexual problem. Your argument is filled with giant holes.

 

[brook]

STIs are common in the lesbian community. In one US study of lesbian health, about one third of the women had had an STI while in a similar survey, 17 per cent of respondents had had onor more STIs.

given the methods of transmission I would hazard that these are contracted during hetrosexual sex

As for cancer - stats show that celibacy increases the risk of prostate cancer in males...I'm pretty sure you are not going to argue that men should not be celibate (although I know many who would :lol: but I can see you are sincere in your religious beliefs so I would assume that would mean you are equally against sex before marriage)

 

[salivor]

Goangod - Without getting too graphic, the basics of lesbian sex aren't too different to what a lot of heterosexual couples do behind closed doors. So why should a Lesbian lifestyle be considered any less healthy than a heterosexual lifestyle?

 

[millersnose]

yeah salivor this is getting better
can we have pictures

 

[ozcrusader]

OK then by your way of thinking then these 'gay' clergymen are more than likely to be pedophiles as well. I still have a problem with your change of tune when it comes to the church. Throughout this thread you have tried to persuade us of a link between homosexuality and pedophilia - not once mentioning this other thing - ephebophilia.

Ok - now I'm confused. I'm not changing my tune at all. What I am saying is this - the media coverage of the abuse scandals in the Catholic church have focused around the pedophilia - pedophile priests and the like - right?

However, the majority of the cases do not qualify as pedophilia - because they do not involve pre pubescent children. They involve overwhelmingly males ages between 12 - 16.

The most commonly cited prevalence estimate is that perhaps 6 percent of priests have abused minors - 4 percent with adolescents and 2 percent with children. This figure is based largely on the work of A.W. Richard Sipe, a former priest, seminary instructor and psychotherapist who has spent 40 years studying, counselling - and testifying in cases against - clerical sex abusers.

Joe, a man (priest) having sex with a 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 yr old male child is homosexual sex. It is still abuse yes - and there is no consent - I fully agree with you on that- but this is still homosexual sex.

Let me ask you this, right now the age of consent for gays in NSW is 16.
So if a priest were to have sex with a 16 year old without his consent, that would be pedophilia? But if he had his consent, that would be homosexuality???

I think not - it would classify as abuse - but its still homosexual.

You should read about one of the most prominent cases - Rev Paul Shanley who is said to have molested more than a hundred boys. He was also a prominent member of the gay catholic community, managed a gay hotel and was a speaker at NAMBLA, Dignity and other homosexual groups.

 

[ozcrusader]

There’s also a link between males and rape. There’s a link between Maoris and crime. Should we wipe out both males and Maoris because of those links? Your right it doesn't matter - not one bit.

Your refusal to see anything wrong with an overrepresentation of homosexuals in abuse statistics defies belief.

Oh polygamy is so terrible isn't it goangod? Society has fully accepted Hugh Hefner, a guy who has 5 playboy bunnies living with him that he picks and choses from. Oh the humanity of it all :lol: .

It's not a question of polygamy being terrible. Its a question of what we have to do accept homosexuality. Once we disregard the moral prohibitions against homosexuality, we can disregard them to allow for everything.

And no - society hasnt accepted them - can Heffner marry all 5 of his girls at once? Do they all enjoy the legal rights and benefits of married couples? Of course not.

No, I agree there is a link. What we can agree to disagree on is what its actual worth in this debate is i.e. none.

Oh, so now there is a link? Thank you for admitting that.

Ok I've grouped these next lot of quotes from you together. I'd just like to ask one thing here: If homosexuality is an acquired behaviour, is heterosexuality an acquired behaviour? You seem very hesitant to touch on that one.

To answer your question, I will use quote from lesbian acitivist Camille Paglia (and yes, I see thr irony)

"Homosexuality is not ‘normal.’ On the contrary, it is a challenge to the norm…Nature exists whether academics like it or not. And in nature, procreation is the single relentless rule. That is the norm. Our sexual bodies were designed for reproduction…No one is born gay. The idea is ridiculous…homosexuality is an adaptation, not an inborn trait."

What is also interesting the number of people who identify themselves as gay after being abused:

In a recent review of the literature in the Journal of the American Medical Association, for example, two researchers noted that "abused adolescents, particularly those victimized by males, were up to 7 times more likely to self-identify as gay or bisexual than peers who have not been abused." "Sexual Abuse of Boys: Definition, Prevalence, Correlates, Sequelae, and Management," William C. Holmes, Gail B. Slap JAMA Dec. 2, 1998 vol. 280, No. 21.

It is spelt paedophilia under New Zealand and Australian English. You are Australian aren't you?

C'mon mate - give it up. Your little stunt backfired - pedophilia is still a correct usage - as I said, I have seen both variations

No, under Christian and other religious morals it is "morally" wrong.

Correct - under Christian and the morals of every other major religion too.

Not under mine and a lot of other peoples morals. So shove your morally wrong crap where you know where.

Excellent - this is exactly the defence a pedophile could use - or perhaps even someone trying to justify incest.

We also know the health risks of heterosexuality, why is this being promoted as a healthy lifestyle on a much larger scale?

Now you're being ridiculous. As mentioned in the facts above, homosexuality is considerably more dangerous than heterosexuality - it is not a valid healthy lifestyles. 5000 times more likely to get AIDs?
5000 times?

As a not so great man once said, Denial is not just a river in Egypt

I think Brook has touched on it perfectly. Lesbian women probably have a much lower contraction of the diseases you posted than heterosexual women.

Except that Brook was wrong.

(Executive Summary, "Health Implications Associated with Homosexuality," 1999, by Medical Institute of Sexual Health;

" ...Women who have sex with women are at significantly increased risk of bacterial vaginosis, breast cancer and ovarian cancer than are heterosexual women."

Also with AIDS, Africa is the worst affected continent and as has been said it’s a largely heterosexual problem. Your argument is filled with giant holes.

The AIDS epidemic in Africa, Asia and many other parts of the third world is a huge problem and as you so correctly pointed out - a largely heterosexual one. However, what you continue to ignore the proportionality

U.S. Health and Human Services -- Centers for Disease Control. AIDS Statistics
"Homosexuals make up over 80 percent of the AIDS cases in America."

"statistics reveal that homosexuals and IV drug abusers make up 83 percent of all AIDS cases in America. Heterosexual contact accounts for only 8 percent of the cases, and nearly half (47 percent) of heterosexuals who have contracted AIDS were the sexual partners of drug abusers."

I see holes Salivor - and they arent mine.

On this thread, I have proven:

• 1. A link between homosexuality and pedophilia exists
  2. That once you dispense with the moral injunctions against homosexuality, you end up accepting other behaviours such as polygamy, bestiality , incest etc
  3. The parallels between the social acceptance of homosexuality and the social acceptance of pedophilia
  4. That just because you consent to something, does not make the act morally right
  5. That there is no biological, genetic or other evidence that people are born homosexual
  6. That those who follow homosexual lifestyle have a significantly lower life expectancy than those who dont and are significantly more risk of STIs including AIDs

You have proven that heterosexuals are more likely to be involved in rape :shock: and that all homosexuals are not pedophiles :shock: and that pedophilia can be spelt two ways :shock:

Along the way, you have also jusified polygamy, and presented a perfect case for the legalisation of pedophilia & incest- a job well done Salivor.

 

[millersnose]

On this thread, I have proven:

• A link between homosexuality and pedophilia

  surely humanity and pedophilia can be linked also
  
  

  That once you dispense with the moral injunctions against homosexuality, you end up accepting other behaviours such as polygamy, bestiality etc

  
  you have not proved this at all
  
  
  

  The parallels between the social acceptance of homosexuality and the social acceptance of pedophilia

  
  once again not proven
  
  

  That just because you consent to something, does not make the act morally right

  
  morality is different for all of us
  
  

  That there is no biological, genetic or other evidence that people are born homosexual

  
  there is plenty of phsycological evidence though as it is a phsycological condition
  
  

  That those who follow homosexual lifestyle have a significantly lower life expectancy than those who dont and are significantly more risk of STIs including AIDs

but this is their risk the same as an african who chooses to be sexually active

i have much respect for you goangod but here i very much disagree with you


i think your argument is fundamentally a moral one and not everyone has the same moral standard