Third Test England v India Aug 18-22 Trent Bridge

[Das Gupta]

Rashid 1/69 in 3rd. India lead by 438 with 7 wickets in hand.

Unless he now scores a match winning century - his selection was a total and utter failure.

A 5for now doesn't even redeem his selection as an error.

Total failure and even playing Stokes (unless he does something remarkable with the bat in the 2nd inns) over Curran was wrong. Stokes bowled far too short in the 1st inns

 

[Das Gupta]

Oh I agree they need more good batsmen.

I agree that Jos Buttler playing as a specialist batsman smacks of utter desperation.

It doesn't however say anything about the allrounder qualities.

Curran, Woakes, Ali, and Stokes are not the problem with the bat.

The top order is.

It used to be Cook and Root and duds.

Now of late - its Root for 50 and duds.

And this is a huge problem for them.

In NZ I loathe Nichols playing like a spud, but England has Vince, Stoneman, Malan, Jennings, Ballance, Buttler at 7, Pope and a seemingly endless line up of players playing like spuds regularly - and Cook has been out of form.

Even Bairstow in the last 2 years is below his average.

People are calling for Curran to come back into the team and not just for his bowling and Moeen too highlight the fact England have managed to hide from in recent times. Top order failure.
If you are continuously struggling to total 100 from 5 of your top 6, then the top order are not doing their job.

Stokes, Buttler, Woakes and Curran (2 tests) have all, on occasion, bailed the top order out and helped the side to a respectable score. But that just papers over the cracks.

We all know on here Cook is past it and like an aging champion the good innings get further and further apart, with many failures in between. The problem is they have no one to replace him with.
His occasional big score does enough to keep his nose above the water. They can't find a credible replacement for Strauss either who checked out nearly 6 years ago.

Things are getting so desperate for England now there calls to give 36 year old Ian Bell another shot.
Good grief.

 

[ANTiLAG]

England is becoming a very limited test team.

Their ODI team is going great guns, they have a philosophy and it's working well.

But their test team is slipping back to the 1990s. It is not because of the all-rounders. They're steadying the ship and saving England's asses.

Their fast bowlers are spoilt with green pitches and swinging conditions with a Dukes ball. This means that many of the effective bowlers there, ineffective elsewhere. But their bowlers crush many teams in tests there.

The conditions don't encourage the production of spinners, and as such Swann is the anomaly since Underwood (who was really less effective once covered pitches became a thing). Embury, Edmonds, Hemmings, Moeen - ordinary spinners is not novel for England. It has been the rule for a long time.

But now, they have a major problem with their test batting. Their swing and seam bowlers will still give them a chance in England, always. As will their allrounders adding more runs. But they need more support for Root than an out of form Cook, and 3 duds, one of which is a failed wicket keeper bat who's only method to score runs in England is to slog playing as a specialist batsman.

England may well keep the Ashes at home every 4 years, but I don't see them getting anywhere near world #1 until they find some batsmen. Regardless of how old Jimmy A and Stuart are or how injured TRJ is. Strauss, KP, pre Mitch Trott, in form Cook - yeah that's how they went to number 1 despite all the allrounders and with an anomaly in Swann's spin. Jimmy's a better bowler now. So is Stuart.

NZ rolled England this year for 58. Overton (an allrounder type) made 33*. There's only so much the allrounders are able to do. The world knows the batting sucks, even if the seam bowlers are very good at home.

Kohli has beaten the England bowlers at home in this test and the first test. He deserves recognition of this feat. Well played.

 

[TheParraboy]

poms 4/84, another 437 runs to win

team india slightly ahead, poms best batting yet to be dissmissed...

 

[ANTiLAG]

poms 4/84, another 437 runs to win

team india slightly ahead, poms best batting yet to be dissmissed...

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/batting/most_runs_career.html?id=12033;type=series

this is hilarious.

Okay - I know Buttler is not dismissed yet BUT:

Kohli has scored 440 runs.

England's best is their keeper in Bairstow and at 206 runs and Woakes at 145 runs having missed a test.

Both the above are yet to bat again.

Root has scored only 142 runs - just ahead of Curran at 127 runs also having missed a test.

Cook has 80 runs. Jennings 94 runs. Buttler 95 (but not out in this innings as I write).

Ironically - the second highest scorer for India is Pandya.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Buttler with a ton. Looks like he's safe in the team for a while now then

 

[TheParraboy]

wouldn't be surprised if there is a bit of resistance in the first session today
Jimmy wont throw his wicket away easily that's for certain

Kholi is gonna tear us to shreds in the summer, and without Smith we have no one anyone near that sort of quality to counteract. Hoping Renshaw can score huge

 

[JJ]

I know Smith has a better record, and obviously I am a Williamson fan - but Kohli has the de Villiers quality about him - just wonderful to watch him batting

 

[Eelectrica]

Gotta give credit where it's due to Stokes and Buttler for giving some respecability to the total. They shoulda picked Curran.

 

[jargan83]

12 runs for the Test from England’s number 8.

We can all see why England are about to lose this Test.

 

[JJ]

Gotta give credit where it's due to Stokes and Buttler for giving some respecability to the total. They shoulda picked Curran.

Sure, but they seriously need some competence around Root at the top of the order... and Cook is one of the greatest openers ever, but it's been looking pretty sad for a while - he'll no doubt notch up another ton soon, but really he's not the player he was

 

[Tommy Smith]

I know Smith has a better record, and obviously I am a Williamson fan - but Kohli has the de Villiers quality about him - just wonderful to watch him batting

Kohli is a genius, no doubt.

But I still can't go past Steve Smith. His tour of India was immense and he left Kohli curled up in a ball in the corner as far as the H2H goes.

For a long time I didn't give Smith the dues he deserves simply because my eyes couldn't believe what they were seeing - given his technique. Not to mention the fact that he started out as a bit part all rounder.

But as he continued to pile up the runs in obscene "best since Bradman" fashion it came to the point where I was able to untrain my mind and just appreciate that Smith is a genius in his own way. He's kinda like crickets 'Rain Man'.

I've never seen any batsman look so comfortable from ball one. Smith doesn't need to get his eye in. He straight up middles every delivery from the start of his innings which is depressing as f**k as an oppositon fan. That to me is Smith's genius and totally unique quality in my time.

Kohli is close because his record is immense as well. And his style is more aesthetic. But Smith averages 60+ with by far the best century rate since the Don. So he's still easily no.1 imo until that changes.

 

[Tommy Smith]

Is there no top order talent coming through? Should be a strength for the UK - they seem to have gone the old NZ way of stacking the teams with all-rounders - from 5 down... don't see that working consistently

I honestly have no idea about the talent coming through.

Since it became clear that the ICC don't even give a f**k about test cricket, I've kinda gone "well fair enough then why should I?"

So unless it's the Ashes I haven't been able to full invest myself in cricket lately so I've lost track of who are England's next big hopes.

My guess is there's half a dozen youngsters who could reverse slog sleep a banana thrown their way for 6. But none that can play quality spin or fight through a testing period of fast bowling to building a Test innings.

Remember that term? Build an innings. The memory is fading.

 

[JJ]

Kohli is a genius, no doubt.

But I still can't go past Steve Smith. His tour of India was immense and he left Kohli curled up in a ball in the corner as far as the H2H goes.

For a long time I didn't give Smith the dues he deserves simply because my eyes couldn't believe what they were seeing - given his technique. Not to mention the fact that he started out as a bit part all rounder.

But as he continued to pile up the runs in obscene "best since Bradman" fashion it came to the point where I was able to untrain my mind and just appreciate that Smith is a genius in his own way. He's kinda like crickets 'Rain Man'.

I've never seen any batsman look so comfortable from ball one. Smith doesn't need to get his eye in. He straight up middles every delivery from the start of his innings which is depressing as f**k as an oppositon fan. That to me is Smith's genius and totally unique quality in my time.

Kohli is close because his record is immense as well. And his style is more aesthetic. But Smith averages 60+ with by far the best century rate since the Don. So he's still easily no.1 imo until that changes.

I was referring to aesthetic - I wouldn't cross the road and pay admission to watch Smith bat TBH, it's a horrific mess of jerky fidgety nonsense - but his record speaks for itself, and until something changes dramatically he is the #1 test batsman (when available) - but I'd much rather watch Kohli bat, only de Villiers on that level at the moment but he's done now...

 

[Mr Angry]

I do not like the guy, but Kholi is world class, easily Indias best for quite some time now, up there with Gavaskar and Tendulkar, some blokes just stand out.

 

[Das Gupta]

Moeen Ali scored a double century and taken 4 wickets for Worcestershire.
The poms will recall him

 

[JJ]

Big win - pretty special test for Kohli

 

[Twizzle]

a 5 day test match is a bit of a rarity now days

 

[simmo1]

Hate to say it, but that's a very impressive win. Pretty much everyone had written them off. Kohli is definitely silencing his critics.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

The difference between India now and say 10 years ago is their pace attack is ok and able to take wickets in the right conditions rather than being non existent.

England are almost as bad as us these days.