This day 25 years ago........

[LeagueXIII]

Which part of that post suggests that either the NRL or NSWRL comp would lack tradition?

It is the second teir that should be appealing to the nostalgia of the 80's and 90's whilst the NRL moves into the future.

That part. "Norths" in the second teir, which is really the Roosters, gives me no interest at all. I would suggest that is the common feel, a club which had a big following now would be lucky to get 50.

 

[madunit]

It's a little frivolous to be blaming Super League for all of the muck that happened to clubs. NSWRL bosses back to the day Humphrey's became boss in 1973 had already started floating the idea of reducing the number of teams in Sydney (and even then referred to it as a Super League) - at a time when the entire competition was between Sydney clubs, in order to expand nationally.

The decisions to axe Wests and Newtown in 1983 were possibly even somewhat motivated by those decisions. Ken Arthurson spoke about a Super League competition that he planned to create in 1986 (He even called it a Super League) - albeit as a secondary competition to the NSWRL, but it was to be a group of merged super clubs in Sydney taking on teams from around Australia in a revamped National Panasonic Cup (formerly the AMCO Cup).

 

[titoelcolombiano]

It is the second teir that should be appealing to the nostalgia of the 80's and 90's whilst the NRL moves into the future.

That part. "Norths" in the second teir, which is really the Roosters, gives me no interest at all. I would suggest that is the common feel, a club which had a big following now would be lucky to get 50.

I've outlined my proposal for a national second teir in other threads but essentially NSW Cup teams would stop being feeder clubs. All clubs in the national second teir would be stand-alone clubs and the comp would be fully professional with obviously lower salaries than the NRL (think NBL level pro comp).

If RU can successfully do this with their old-school rivalries in North Sydney in the Shute Shield, then we should be able to do the same with clubs like North Sydney, Manly, Newtown plus the comp will have the old BRL traditional clubs Redcliffe, Ipswich, Wynnum Manly, Norths, Easts plus have the exotic flair of PNG Hunters and Fiji. It could be a good mix and be a pretty attractive comp to watch for many reasons.

 

[taipan]

I've outlined my proposal for a national second teir in other threads but essentially NSW Cup teams would stop being feeder clubs. All clubs in the national second teir would be stand-alone clubs and the comp would be fully professional with obviously lower salaries than the NRL (think NBL level pro comp).

If RU can successfully do this with their old-school rivalries in North Sydney in the Shute Shield, then we should be able to do the same with clubs like North Sydney, Manly, Newtown plus the comp will have the old BRL traditional clubs Redcliffe, Ipswich, Wynnum Manly, Norths, Easts plus have the exotic flair of PNG Hunters and Fiji. It could be a good mix and be a pretty attractive comp to watch for many reasons.

Trouble is their 2nd tier seems to be doing OK.Their top tier is sh*t house.One out of two ain't bad I guess.

 

[flippikat]

I'll think the run down condition of Brookvale would have alot to do with Manly's lower than average crowds. What is needed on the northern beaches is a neat 20-25,000 boutique stadium.

North of the Harbour Bridge, yes.. but not *necessarily* on the northern beaches.

If we want a team that's going to represent the whole north side (as many have desired here), it needs to be reasonably central, easily accessible for transport & away from residential zones. Whether that team is eventually the Sea-Eagles, Roosters or some other identity, if they need a new boutique stadium in their area, I'm not sure whether Brookvale is the right site.

 

[MugaB]

Lets follow unions stradegy and boot out western force, STUPID!
Now they have a super rugby, global rapid rugby, emulating the super league war of league,
Enough with the 2nd teir rubbish, the teams are there coz they cannot be in the 1st grade, we need a stronger NRL
The best way is add more 1st grade teams in Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane, and Nz, then the 2nd teir might get more teams from sydney who cant cut it in the 20 team comp

 

[MrE_Assassin]

And the partial rationalisation of Sydney. It had to happen at some stage, it probably would have been preferable to just finish the job rather than revisit it 22 years later.

Sydney Roosters
South Sydney Rabbitohs
St George Illawarra Dragons
Cronulla Sharks
Penrith Panthers
Parramatta Eels
Canterbury Bulldogs
Canberra Raiders
Brisbane Broncos
NQ Cowboys 1995
SQ Crushers 1995
Auckland Warriors 1995
Perth Reds 1995
Adelaide Rams 1997
Melbourne Tigers (Wests-Balmain merged and relocated) 1998
Central Coast Bears (North Sydney Bears relocated) 1998
Gold Coast Seagulls (bring back the Seagulls ) 2007
Wellington Orcas 2012

Melbourne Tigers couldn't be a thing becasue the NBL already had the Melbourne Tigers team at the time. Would have had to be branded with a different name and most likely still would have been the Storm. The players from Tigers/Wests would have been re-rolled into this new team and the off cuts sent back to reserve grade.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Melbourne Tigers couldn't be a thing becasue the NBL already had the Melbourne Tigers team at the time. Would have had to be branded with a different name and most likely still would have been the Storm. The players from Tigers/Wests would have been re-rolled into this new team and the off cuts sent back to reserve grade.

Or maybe the basketball team welcomes the new Melbourne Tigers RL team into the sporting family as is common in Europe

 

[Last Week]

View attachment 29174

Drop sharks, panthers And manly and put in Souths, knights, Storm, tigers, CC and dragons and you’ve got the perfect 14 club competition that would have seen the game in a very different place over the last 20 years. If we could afford 16 ave. Two wildcard spots for two next best Sydney clubs.

My God you're a complete f**king idiot. How do you even survive?

 

[Perth Red]

My God you're a complete f**king idiot. How do you even survive?

Which god is that?

 

[Stallion]

It's a little frivolous to be blaming Super League for all of the muck that happened to clubs. NSWRL bosses back to the day Humphrey's became boss in 1973 had already started floating the idea of reducing the number of teams in Sydney (and even then referred to it as a Super League) - at a time when the entire competition was between Sydney clubs, in order to expand nationally.

The decisions to axe Wests and Newtown in 1983 were possibly even somewhat motivated by those decisions. Ken Arthurson spoke about a Super League competition that he planned to create in 1986 (He even called it a Super League) - albeit as a secondary competition to the NSWRL, but it was to be a group of merged super clubs in Sydney taking on teams from around Australia in a revamped National Panasonic Cup (formerly the AMCO Cup).

Arthurson has admitted the "rationalisation / merging/axing club" intent amongst Sydney clubs as wrong and inviting loss of established supporter bases not only in Sydney but Australia wide .

 

[titoelcolombiano]

and Stallion is back... the break was nice while it lasted

 

[MugaB]

and Stallion is back... the break was nice while it lasted

He isn't that bad until bears or northern sydney crowd figures gets mentioned.

 

[MugaB]

I do like his pro sydney clubs/anti-rationalisation thoughts tho, more of that is interesting, but growing up a norths fan as a kid, i have that nostalgic pull to want them back in 1st grade one day.
And then i read all the threads around here, and think, you know its probably for the best..

Idea!*
Maybe a wildcard draw one day where one weekend all the NSW state cup teams and QLD state cup teams can round robin over a spot in the NRL. Magic round style, one off comp, like in pre-season, that way they get most of the year to get sorted for 1st grade the next season,
But you only get to play for that year. Till the next round robin the year after, the winner replaces them. Etc
Lets say Perth, Brisbane2 and NZ2 are admitted in 2023 as real NRL expansion, bringing the comp to 19 clubs, plus this wildcard team, it's only drawback is that the clubs that run 1st grade and lower grade will effectively have two NRL sides, souths, penrith, st george etc.
maybe the rule to only wildcard teams with No affiations with an Existing NRL side, so Norths feeding roosters wouldn't be applicable

 

[Stallion]

and Stallion is back... the break was nice while it lasted

Keeping you honest! Which is extremely time consuming!

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Keeping you honest! Which is extremely time consuming!

Says the guy that states his opinions as if they were fact

 

[madunit]

Arthurson has admitted the "rationalisation / merging/axing club" intent amongst Sydney clubs as wrong and inviting loss of established supporter bases not only in Sydney but Australia wide .

That's irrelevant to my point.

My point was that plans to do this had been considered as far as back as the mid 70's, they weren't proposed by Superleague, or a consequence of that war. It was on the cards anyway.

Arthurson probably said that because his beloved Manly was one of the sides impacted.

 

[Stallion]

That's irrelevant to my point.

My point was that plans to do this had been considered as far as back as the mid 70's, they weren't proposed by Superleague, or a consequence of that war. It was on the cards anyway.

Arthurson probably said that because his beloved Manly was one of the sides impacted.

I've seen the actual interview on the "Sterlo" program on Fox a few years back now. Arthurson was definitely speaking with heartfelt consideration and empathy for the established fan bases of all Sydney NRL/ARL clubs. Not just Manly. He conceded the mistake and it was very genuine. Things like "You can't just rid the competition of these established clubs! They have thousands upon thousands of fans...These clubs mean so much to their daily lives.....We were wrong......"

 

[madunit]

I've seen the actual interview on the "Sterlo" program on Fox a few years back now. Arthurson was definitely speaking with heartfelt consideration and empathy for the established fan bases of all Sydney NRL/ARL clubs. Not just Manly. He conceded the mistake and it was very genuine. Things like "You can't just rid the competition of these established clubs! They have thousands upon thousands of fans...These clubs mean so much to their daily lives.....We were wrong......"

Lets try again mate.
My point...is that the NSWRL, whether right or wrong is irrelevant....had been talking about shrinking the number of teams in Sydney since the mid 1970's.

I'm not commenting on Arko's beliefs. Or whether it was right or wrong.

Simply, that Superleague often gets blamed for the mergers/loss of clubs, when the game had been considering it for at least 20 years before Super League started.

That's it. That's my point.

 

[Stallion]

Lets try again mate.
My point...is that the NSWRL, whether right or wrong is irrelevant....had been talking about shrinking the number of teams in Sydney since the mid 1970's.

I'm not commenting on Arko's beliefs. Or whether it was right or wrong.

Simply, that Superleague often gets blamed for the mergers/loss of clubs, when the game had been considering it for at least 20 years before Super League started.

That's it. That's my point.

Point taken and accepted. The overriding conclusion though is that this thinking was flawed. Arko's comment confirms a flawed strategy. And looking at what is transpiring: a shit fight and underwhelming progress is occuring. Northern Sydney being a valid example of dilution and what it does to widely etablished supporter bases.