This new stadium for Sydney better not be multi-purpose

[Saint Doc]

Would it be at all feasible if they build a stadium around Redfern, with the train lines going under the stadium?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say no.

 

[Dogs Of War]

Is there actually a proposed site at liverpool?

I assume they are speakign about the same site that the Bulldogs were going to build the Oasis project on.

Woodward Park, Liverpool

 

[magpie4ever]

Are the old rail yards between Redfern and MacDonaldtown fully utilised?

My guess is if you were building a Western Stadium, you would go Doonside/Rooty Hill/Eastern Creek where the Blacktown Olympic Sport Centre is with a game day railway station between Doonside and Rooty Hill.

Depending on finances, maybe, a second (south-western) one at Liverpool.

 

[Saint Doc]

I assume they are speakign about the same site that the Bulldogs were going to build the Oasis project on.

Woodward Park, Liverpool

If Oasis had gotten up, I wonder if the Razorbacks NBL team would still be alive? They were getting a 6,000 seat indoor arena as part of the deal

 

[docbrown]

Only problem is there is no spare land on the "central to Sydenham" corridor.

Should've bought out the uni land next to Central.

Really what I'm saying though is that it should be near a station that services multiple lines so you don't have to take two trains and a bus etc.

Would it be at all feasible if they build a stadium around Redfern, with the train lines going under the stadium?

At a guess and it's just a guess but it would probably be cost prohibitive.

Yours is definitely a cheaper option to sustain. 60000 is an uncomfortable size for a stadium - smaller than what has become the standard for blockbuster events in Sydney (origins, grand finals, some internationals) and likely too big for most club games (although this can be counteracted with appropriate design and planning to ensure a decent atmosphere).

The Eastern stadium would have to be in an optimal position for trains (preferably at a junction), major roads and available parking (or room to construct it). The rail criteria narrows it down to Redfern or Sydenham. Which one best suits the other criteria, I don't know. Redfern would be my pick, based on my vastly small knowledge of the area, might be able to share facilities with Sydney Uni. I'm sure the cost of land purchase would be horrendous though.

Two primary stadia just seems a little thin given the geography of the city and just looking at it on a map, neglects the south west and outer west areas which are expected to boom in the future. Maybe a compromise would be to replace ANZ with your western stadium at Lidcombe, either build a new eastern stadium or make do with the SFS for the time being and build the south west stadium at Liverpool. Boutique stadiums at Cronulla, Brookvale and Penrith.

I would suggest that doing the tiers correctly - say a lower bowl with 37,000 and a smaller upper bowl - would minimise the problems.

The tenants I'm suggesting Rabbitohs, Tigers, Bulldogs & Eels are all capable of averaging 30k by decade's end so games between them could start attracting those 45-60k numbers.

Come 2040/2050 the population shift would probably warrant that Western Stadium shifting further out west but for the moment the axis between the clubs seems to be around Lidcombe way.

I agree with your logic it seems that the options are a) have a western Sydney stadium near Lidcombe that can service Eels, Bulldogs, Rabbitohs & Tigers or b) have two, one at Blacktown for Eels & Panthers and one at Liverpool for Dogs & Tigers.

Like I said I don't mind the idea of the Liverpool stadium, I was disappointed when it got canned last time. I guess I'm just trying to present an option where if we do invest in 2 big stadiums then we get more bang for our buck and I feel that we also need to address the Eastern Sydney situation. We may be able to able to leave Leichardt & Kogarah for the SFS but I doubt it would be as successful as it would be if the stadium was on the other side of the tracks at a new and more easily accessible and modern facility.

 

[TheRam]

If you look at where I was suggesting that the Roosters, Dragons, eastern Rabbitohs and inner west Tigers fans would attend games - a new Eastern Football Stadium somewhere along the Sydenham to Central rail corridor - that stadium would be within a 5-6km radius of Leichardt, Kogarah and SFS - all of which could be shut down. It's also just on the fringe of the Bulldogs area.

If Parramatta fans are willing to go to Blacktown then Homebush and Lidcombe are just as far away from the existing Parramatta Stadium but that new Western Football Stadium you could house Eels, Bulldogs, western Tigers and western Rabbitohs fans - all clubs with big fanbases. That stadium would replace Parramatta and Stadium Australia.

I don't mind the idea of a Blacktown stadium for Parramatta & Penrith but although you might argue for a smaller stadium the Parramatta fan base is four times the size of Penrith's. They would be unequal tennants and there will come a time when the disparity between the clubs would become glaringly obvious either by capacity being reached for Eels games or masses of empty seats for Panthers games.

The Liverpool stadium for Dogs & Tigers would work but if its a choice of having only two stadium built then I would prefer the Eastern stadium to be move slightly west of the cbd and rail line as where as the Liverpool & Blacktown stadiums would service 4 NRL teams (plus maybe the Dragons - remains to be seen if that's convenient) the Eastern Stadium & Western Stadiums would host 6 NRL teams between them (plus Wanders, Sydney FC & Waratahs). The fact that what I'm suggesting would have 9 permanent teams instead of your 6 means that they could be built to big capacity.

In my scenario we'd drop Stadium Australia & SFS altogether. In yours those two stadiums still need to be funded.

Only problem is there is no spare land on the "central to Sydenham" corridor.

Wolli creek would be a great spot for a stadium but no land suitable for a stadium

Umm...I have only suggested Prince Alfred Park or Belmore Park, either side of Central station, like a bazillion times. Check it out on the map. Perrrfect spot.

Either site would be the most awesome site for a 40000k stadium in Australia and would basically guarantee a packed house every game. Just think of how convenient a stadium right next to Central station is. Even people that aren't that into footy would turn up with their work colleagues just for a social time and drinks before going home or kicking on for a night out. Not to mention the people that come into the city early watch the game and then go out on the town.

 

[magpie4ever]

Umm...I have only suggested Prince Alfred Park or Belmore Park, either side of Central station, like a bazillion times. Check it out on the map. Perrrfect spot.

Either site would be the most awesome site for a 40000k stadium in Australia and would basically guarantee a packed house every game. Just think of how convenient a stadium right next to Central station is. Even people that aren't that into footy would turn up with their work colleagues just for a social time and drinks before going home or kicking on for a night out. Not to mention the people that come into the city early watch the game and then go out on the town.

I'm no engineer or architect but is there sufficent land space in Prince Alfred or Belmore Park for a 40k seat stadium?

 

[Saint Doc]

I'm no engineer or architect but is there sufficent land space in Prince Alfred or Belmore Park for a 40k seat stadium?

No. Not only is there not enough room but government would never give up city parkland space for a stadium.

 

[magpie4ever]

No. Not only is there not enough room but government would never give up city parkland space for a stadium.

Thought so, a drunk could spit from one side of Belmore Park to the another side, and even allowing for the swimming pool in Prince Alfred Park it not that large an area. Agree re: parkland space.

 

[GAZF]

You'd probably just squeeze a stadium on Prince Alfred park.

The two blocks to the east of Redfern park are sparsely populated compared to the rest of the area. Combine that with Redfern park and you have a block measuring about 260 x 300 metres. SFS is about 210 x 210 by comparison. Its also located about 700 m from Redfern station. Parking would obviously be a concern, maybe a park and ride from Moore Park initially with plans to add parking. It would also mean splitting Elizabeth St in two so there would need to be upgrades of adjacent streets to handle the additional traffic.

 

[dangerousdave]

Reclaimed airspace over the tracks is the place to do it. Could recoup the costs by laying the foundations for an area surplus to stadium requirements and selling off this space to developers

 

[bobmar28]

That shopping centre shadium thing, that would be awesome.
Of course, still lobby the gov for that new west syndey stadium. but if that was say in liverpool, the eels playing there would be a stretch and the panther playing there would just be dumb. So this would be a great way to build that blacktown stadium for the pathers.

For the Parramatta Panthers.

Great place for a stadium though, plenty of room for car parks. Near westlink.

 

[bobmar28]

You'd probably just squeeze a stadium on Prince Alfred park.

The two blocks to the east of Redfern park are sparsely populated compared to the rest of the area. Combine that with Redfern park and you have a block measuring about 260 x 300 metres. SFS is about 210 x 210 by comparison. Its also located about 700 m from Redfern station. Parking would obviously be a concern, maybe a park and ride from Moore Park initially with plans to add parking. It would also mean splitting Elizabeth St in two so there would need to be upgrades of adjacent streets to handle the additional traffic.

Park and ride? this is getting ridiculous. How about just get the light rail from central to the SFS? There is no need for a new eastern stadium.

 

[TheRam]

I'm no engineer or architect but is there sufficent land space in Prince Alfred or Belmore Park for a 40k seat stadium?

Are you guys kidding? Prince Alfred Park has way more than enough space to plonk a 40k stadium on it and as for Belmore, it may just be enough with a creative tall design as opposed a wide foot print.

But I don't have the exact size dimensions for either.

 

[big hit!]

prince alfred park/another venue in the city.

:lol:

is bobmar the only sane person contributing to this dribble?

 

[GAZF]

Park and ride? this is getting ridiculous. How about just get the light rail from central to the SFS? There is no need for a new eastern stadium.

prince alfred park/another venue in the city.

:lol:

is bobmar the only sane person contributing to this dribble?

I actually think the SFS will stay where it is, just needs transport upgrades and a better roof. Doc is a big fan of moving the stadium and we were only discussing how it could work.

 

[docbrown]

I actually think the SFS will stay where it is, just needs transport upgrades and a better roof. Doc is a big fan of moving the stadium and we were only discussing how it could work.

I have no doubt that they'll go for the 'smaller vision' option and then after the light rail is installed we'll still be debating why people won't go to the SFS.

We have the SFS for the Roosters, Leichardt for the Tigers, Kogarah for the Dragons. Logic dictates that the centralised option with direct transport links is somewhere between the three.

If people are willing to build two stadiums in the west (Blacktown & Liverpool) if the western issue can be addressed with one stadium then its not as out of the question as some might think.

 

[TheRam]

I have no doubt that they'll go for the 'smaller vision' option and then after the light rail is installed we'll still be debating why people won't go to the SFS.

We have the SFS for the Roosters, Leichardt for the Tigers, Kogarah for the Dragons. Logic dictates that the centralised option with direct transport links is somewhere between the three.

If people are willing to build two stadiums in the west (Blacktown & Liverpool) if the western issue can be addressed with one stadium then its not as out of the question as some might think.

Totally agree Doc. No real vision at all.

 

[LESStar58]

GWS & AFL have conned everyone!

Not only the NSW Government and local councils, don't forget the ACT Government has given GWS $23 million over 10 years to play 4 games per year in Canberra, Manuka Oval.

They are on the nose as much in Canberra as they are in the western suburnbs of Sydney.

I agree with other posters the ARLC & FFA should simply not entertain the prospect of a supporting a multi-purpose stadium. We have seen what a disaster that is at ANZ for watching RL.

Sydney is a RL city, reagrdless of what others try and tell you. Melbourne is an Aussie Rules city. The Vic government would not for one moment contemplate building another rectangular stadium in Melbourne. The NSW government should not contemplate building another AFL ground in Sydney. Afterall GWS already has 3 venues in Homebush & Blacktown.

Of course not. It took them long enough to sign off on AAMI and even then it needed the tenancy of Melbourne Victory as well as the Storm to make it viable.

Aside from that, you post is dead on as is the observation of everybody else. IMO a centralised, rectangular ground in western sydney with state of the art facilities is a must for the good rugby league folk of that part of the world. The FFA in particular should leverage the Government with the success of WSW and insist it not be multi purpose. Let's not kid ourselves; WSW are the biggest drawcard to getting this stadium the way it should be. As mentioned, the success of Victory in 2006-07 was a bigger drawcard in getting AAMI built than Storm, Rebels and Heart could have been. Victory could always have used Etihad but I can't imagine it's as good for watching soccer same way as it's not exactly perfect for RL either.

The local governments should point to the gravy train the AFL have been riding in Sydney over the last few years as a reason to tell them to f**k right off from having anything to do with any new stadium to be built in Sydney. Let them use ANZ and Skoda.