This new stadium for Sydney better not be multi-purpose

[Brutus]

Phil Gould was saying last year that GWS was treat to the Panthers/West and blah blah blah. Then this year Phil gould comes up with plan to make centrebet stadium a current rectangular stadium into multi-purpose "basically an oval" stadium :lol:

It's a friggin joke.

f**k off Gus.

 

[bobmar28]

Does not have to be at the expense of expansion!

Expansion can occur without diluting the Sydney market! Adding extra teams just like in years gone by can still occur! As I've stated before, other codes are waiting for the NRL to make the same mistake from the Super league war and reduce the clubs in Sydney. Its the jewel in the crown of Australian sport!

You get generational fans offside , you lose them! I know of former North Sydney fans that do not follow the game anymore because their team is not represented in the NRL. This would have been the case with South Sydney had the overwhelming groundswell support for this club not happened. They are massive mistakes getting rid of established clubs. They are known and they are very popular through generations and established recognition over many years!

I'm all for extra teams!
Your continued attack on existing popular and established clubs in Sydney is doing the West Coast Pirates bid no favours! Hopefully you may work this out!

These clubs can add onto the NRL. They don't have ruin the NRL presence in Sydney for entry!

Are you serious? Liverpool has no team yet is solid league heartland. The people on the north shore follow AFL and union because that is what those elite types prefer.

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

no farkin way are there that many roosters supporters beyond Maroubra in the south-east.

It's all Souths down there.

No f**kin way souffs have over 15k members either

 

[GAZF]

One stadium is just not going to cut it. Sydney is a trainwreck in terms of access, fans won't want to travel to a single central location (Homebush) and would generally prefer to stay close to their own backyard.

In terms of new stadiums, Liverpool is a priority imo. Building it will allow the Tigers to abandon both Leichhardt and Campbelltown as playing grounds. It would also be perfect for the Dogs and probably the Saints once Kogarah is no longer viable (capacity, age without significant upgrades). There would be in the range of 20-30 NRL games played there with the Dogs and Tigers playing up to 12 and the Dragons 6. Somewhere in the region of 30000 would be ideal.

Blacktown is the second priority for Parra and Penrith. At the moment, Penrith and Parra stadiums are adequate for their tenants but with anticipated rises in crowds will likely find themselves being inadequate. Obvious spot is Rooty Hill, 25000-30000 depending on how crowds in Parra and Penrith improve. Rooty Hill would obviously require a train station but its an ideal spot for drivers.

ANZ isn't suitable for most NRL games, but to have it sitting there is such a waste. Make it the 'event' stadium of Sydney with blockbuster games, expected to outsell their homeground capacity, held there. Goes without saying that Origin and select RL/RU/Soccer internationals would be played there and then push it as a stadium for concerts and similar. Would expect it to get the rectangular conversion in the long term (pending whatever deal the AFL has with them). Push for special event transport to ALL games held there as they will actually be 'events'.

SFS looks to be there to stay so the best we can do is to make it easier to access which is the intention of the light rail. The proposed 60 000 is too big - I'm happy with the current capacity but they need to fix the bloody roof.

Cronulla and Manly are outliers and would keep their own grounds as shared grounds are not feasible. Keep them around 20000, small grandstands and hills. Don't want to spend a lot of money on single tenant stadia, just make them comfortable.

So a loose timeline would be along the lines of:

Current - 9 stadiums (ANZ, SFS, Campbelltown, Penrith, Parra, Brooky, Shark Park, Leichhardt, Kogarah)
Stage 1 - build 30000 all seater at Liverpool. 7/8 Stadiums - ANZ, SFS, Liverpool, Penrith, Parra, Brooky, Shark Park, Kogarah (with an eventual move to Liverpool)
Stage 2 - build 25000-30000 all seater at Blacktown. 6/7 Stadiums - ANZ, SFS, Liverpool, Blacktown, Brooky, Shark Park, Kogarah (with an eventual move to Liverpool)

Between stages - 'Rectangularise' ANZ, upgrades to Shark Park and Brooky

End product - 6 stadiums

ANZ - 'Event Stadium' - 80000-90000
SFS - Roosters/Souths/Sydney FC/Waratahs - 40000
Liverpool - Tigers/Dogs/Dragons (6) - 30000
Blacktown - Eels/Panthers/Wanderers - 25000-30000
Brookvale - Sea-Eagles - 20000
Shark Park - Sharks - 20000

I've gone conservative on all capacities because a solid and realistic average crowd of 20000 looks shit in a 40000 seater, 10000 looks abysmal. With the luxury of ANZ being adequately large and central to most of Sydney, we can afford to have stadia on the smaller side, improving atmosphere and reducing the overall cost.

You'd imagine this kind of end product would take in the vicinity of 15-20 years to become a reality.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Yeah, they need two more stadiums if they want to centralize the games. I think Liverpool should be above 40,000 if the Dogs are going to play there, and if the tigers can get there shiit together they could crack the 20,000 easily (just think how popular they were 05 and 06. I've never seen a team dig so much support out of so one premiership win).

But you're right about Blacktown. 30,000 ish is perfect. Panthers would never get above that and parramatta could move there big games to liverpool or anz.

 

[Stormwarrior]

Gazf that would seem a pretty decent stadium strategy. On top of that tho a decent train line that can service all stadiums from all parts of side is a must but does seem it will take long than the stadium strategy to put in place. And for gods sake make public transport free for all nrl games!!

 

[Saint Doc]

I don't know why Melbourne is our blueprint?

Sure 2 stadiums works for them, but what about the city with the most professional football sides in the world, london?

Wembley 90,000
Twickenham 82,000
Olympic stadium 80,000
Emirates 60,000
Stamford bridge 42000
White heart lane 36,000
Boleyn ground 35,000
The Valley 27,000
Selhurst park 26,000
Craven cottage 26,000
Vicarage rd 22,000
Stadium mk 22,000
New den stadium 20,000
Crystal palace 20,000
Loftus rd 20,000

Now I know the money in premier league is far above NRL and that London's population is twice that of Sydney, but why if they can have 15 modern all seater stadia (at least, may have missed some) over 20,000 can't we have say seven. And note I'm only talking about rectangular grounds here, I didn't count lords or the valley for cricket.

So if we were to have 5-6 in Sydney, you'd ideally have: (similar to gazf)

Homebush: origin and finals, some Dogs, some Souths.

SFS: roosters, some Souths, some Dragons

Blacktown 33,000: eels and panthers

Liverpool 33,000: some Dogs, some Tigers

Shark park 25,000: sharks

Brookvale 25,000 manly

Plus the occasional low drawing games at Kogarah, Leichhardt, Campbelltown.

 

[GAZF]

Yeah, they need two more stadiums if they want to centralize the games. I think Liverpool should be above 40,000 if the Dogs are going to play there, and if the tigers can get there shiit together they could crack the 20,000 easily (just think how popular they were 05 and 06. I've never seen a team dig so much support out of so one premiership win).

40000 would be the absolute limit at Liverpool, for low drawing games they could consider covering up the upper tiers (like the Eden Park idea) to get a better atmosphere. Its important that these stadiums are built right on top of the ground, if they make the stands as gradual as ANZ, we'll have another two white elephants in West Sydney.

Gazf that would seem a pretty decent stadium strategy. On top of that tho a decent train line that can service all stadiums from all parts of side is a must but does seem it will take long than the stadium strategy to put in place. And for gods sake make public transport free for all nrl games!!

Absolutely. The gov't wants arses in seats, they should subsidise the cost of getting there. A $20-$30 ticket should get a fan a GA seat and a train/bus ride to the stadium. Blacktown/Liverpool are both on rail ines as well and a short walk to the station (the proposed Rooty Hill station would be across the road from the sports park).

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

deleted

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Now I know the money in premier league is far above NRL and that London's population is twice that of Sydney, but why if they can have 15 modern all seater stadia (at least, may have missed some) over 20,000 can't we have say seven. And note I'm only talking about rectangular grounds here, I didn't count lords or the valley for cricket.

To be fair, there are about 22 million people within a 2 hour drive of london.

so its not REALLY that similar to sydney, is it.

 

[SharkShocked]

Is there actually a proposed site at liverpool?

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

40000 would be the absolute limit at Liverpool, for low drawing games they could consider covering up the upper tiers (like the Eden Park idea) to get a better atmosphere. Its important that these stadiums are built right on top of the ground, if they make the stands as gradual as ANZ, we'll have another two white elephants in West Sydney.

You could make an arguement for mid 40s but yeah, that the reasonable limit. But i dont think that many seats would impact the view much. not many bad seats in suncorp and ive been in a few NFL stadiums. 60,000 seaters and they all had great views.

 

[Stormwarrior]

The only way that 7/8 rectangular stadiums will stay is if the nrl clubs get help from the private sector and think outside the box.

 

[dangerousdave]

To be fair, there are about 22 million people within a 2 hour drive of london.

so its not REALLY that similar to sydney, is it.

Theres probably another 15 odd 20k plus all seaters within 2hrs of london

 

[God-King Dean]

Of course it should be a multi-purpose stadium.

AFL is on the rise, while the popularity of RL is dwindling, & close to death.

Only fair we should accommodate them.

 

[docbrown]

Current - 9 stadiums (ANZ, SFS, Campbelltown, Penrith, Parra, Brooky, Shark Park, Leichhardt, Kogarah)
Stage 1 - build 30000 all seater at Liverpool. 7/8 Stadiums - ANZ, SFS, Liverpool, Penrith, Parra, Brooky, Shark Park, Kogarah (with an eventual move to Liverpool)
Stage 2 - build 25000-30000 all seater at Blacktown. 6/7 Stadiums - ANZ, SFS, Liverpool, Blacktown, Brooky, Shark Park, Kogarah (with an eventual move to Liverpool)

Between stages - 'Rectangularise' ANZ, upgrades to Shark Park and Brooky

End product - 6 stadiums

ANZ - 'Event Stadium' - 80000-90000
SFS - Roosters/Souths/Sydney FC/Waratahs - 40000
Liverpool - Tigers/Dogs/Dragons (6) - 30000
Blacktown - Eels/Panthers/Wanderers - 25000-30000
Brookvale - Sea-Eagles - 20000
Shark Park - Sharks - 20000

If you look at where I was suggesting that the Roosters, Dragons, eastern Rabbitohs and inner west Tigers fans would attend games - a new Eastern Football Stadium somewhere along the Sydenham to Central rail corridor - that stadium would be within a 5-6km radius of Leichardt, Kogarah and SFS - all of which could be shut down. It's also just on the fringe of the Bulldogs area.

If Parramatta fans are willing to go to Blacktown then Homebush and Lidcombe are just as far away from the existing Parramatta Stadium but that new Western Football Stadium you could house Eels, Bulldogs, western Tigers and western Rabbitohs fans - all clubs with big fanbases. That stadium would replace Parramatta and Stadium Australia.

I don't mind the idea of a Blacktown stadium for Parramatta & Penrith but although you might argue for a smaller stadium the Parramatta fan base is four times the size of Penrith's. They would be unequal tennants and there will come a time when the disparity between the clubs would become glaringly obvious either by capacity being reached for Eels games or masses of empty seats for Panthers games.

The Liverpool stadium for Dogs & Tigers would work but if its a choice of having only two stadium built then I would prefer the Eastern stadium to be move slightly west of the cbd and rail line as where as the Liverpool & Blacktown stadiums would service 4 NRL teams (plus maybe the Dragons - remains to be seen if that's convenient) the Eastern Stadium & Western Stadiums would host 6 NRL teams between them (plus Wanders, Sydney FC & Waratahs). The fact that what I'm suggesting would have 9 permanent teams instead of your 6 means that they could be built to big capacity.

In my scenario we'd drop Stadium Australia & SFS altogether. In yours those two stadiums still need to be funded.

 

[Saint Doc]

Only problem is there is no spare land on the "central to Sydenham" corridor.

Wolli creek would be a great spot for a stadium but no land suitable for a stadium

 

[juro]

Would it be at all feasible if they build a stadium around Redfern, with the train lines going under the stadium?

 

[GAZF]

If you look at where I was suggesting that the Roosters, Dragons, eastern Rabbitohs and inner west Tigers fans would attend games - a new Eastern Football Stadium somewhere along the Sydenham to Central rail corridor - that stadium would be within a 5-6km radius of Leichardt, Kogarah and SFS - all of which could be shut down. It's also just on the fringe of the Bulldogs area.

If Parramatta fans are willing to go to Blacktown then Homebush and Lidcombe are just as far away from the existing Parramatta Stadium but that new Western Football Stadium you could house Eels, Bulldogs, western Tigers and western Rabbitohs fans - all clubs with big fanbases. That stadium would replace Parramatta and Stadium Australia.

I don't mind the idea of a Blacktown stadium for Parramatta & Penrith but although you might argue for a smaller stadium the Parramatta fan base is four times the size of Penrith's. They would be unequal tennants and there will come a time when the disparity between the clubs would become glaringly obvious either by capacity being reached for Eels games or masses of empty seats for Panthers games.

The Liverpool stadium for Dogs & Tigers would work but if its a choice of having only two stadium built then I would prefer the Eastern stadium to be move slightly west of the cbd and rail line as where as the Liverpool & Blacktown stadiums would service 4 NRL teams (plus maybe the Dragons - remains to be seen if that's convenient) the Eastern Stadium & Western Stadiums would host 6 NRL teams between them (plus Wanders, Sydney FC & Waratahs). The fact that what I'm suggesting would have 9 permanent teams instead of your 6 means that they could be built to big capacity.

In my scenario we'd drop Stadium Australia & SFS altogether. In yours those two stadiums still need to be funded.

Yours is definitely a cheaper option to sustain. 60000 is an uncomfortable size for a stadium - smaller than what has become the standard for blockbuster events in Sydney (origins, grand finals, some internationals) and likely too big for most club games (although this can be counteracted with appropriate design and planning to ensure a decent atmosphere).

The Eastern stadium would have to be in an optimal position for trains (preferably at a junction), major roads and available parking (or room to construct it). The rail criteria narrows it down to Redfern or Sydenham. Which one best suits the other criteria, I don't know. Redfern would be my pick, based on my vastly small knowledge of the area, might be able to share facilities with Sydney Uni. I'm sure the cost of land purchase would be horrendous though.

Two primary stadia just seems a little thin given the geography of the city and just looking at it on a map, neglects the south west and outer west areas which are expected to boom in the future. Maybe a compromise would be to replace ANZ with your western stadium at Lidcombe, either build a new eastern stadium or make do with the SFS for the time being and build the south west stadium at Liverpool. Boutique stadiums at Cronulla, Brookvale and Penrith.

 

[GAZF]

Would it be at all feasible if they build a stadium around Redfern, with the train lines going under the stadium?

Sounds expensive. Can imagine the engineering required to build a stadium over a tunnel is pretty immense.