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Thoughts on society.....

K

Kiwi

Guest
I was trying to summarize conservative Christian opinion

Don't you mean catholic christian opinion? After all one could hardly say you were speaking the opinion of christian faiths that are non catholic. Plus you were speaking from a catholic point of view in saying why other christian faiths were not in fact christian like the catholics are. So in saying that you have been trying to summarize your catholic views not christian views as a whole.
 
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4,446
Have to agree with that CS. I havent been on a heck of a lot lately, and will all due respect Willow, you did that in the forum 7s thread over on the grandstand as well (ie: expecting immediate results). I think I answered your question as well as it could be. If you still want to take up issue with it, well thats fine, but there isn't a lot i can do about it.

Cheers,
Moffo


 
C

CanadianSteve

Guest
Don't you mean catholic christian opinion? After all one could hardly say you were speaking the opinion of christian faiths that are non catholic. Plus you were speaking from a catholic point of view in saying why other christian faiths were not in fact christian like the catholics are. So in saying that you have been trying to summarize your catholic views not christian views as a whole

Kiwi, I am not Roman Catholic. I go to a Baptist church. I think if you read my recent posts carefully I spelled that out. I said "trying to summarize" because there is no on Protestant authority to quote from on these matters. I was trying to explain what I perceive as conservative, Protestant Christian interpretation.

Have to agree with that CS Why can't you all just say that and leave it at that?:)
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
110,139
CS: "I can't be on here all the time to answer every question immediately"
Moffo: "I havent been on a heck of a lot lately, and will all due respect Willow, you did that in the forum 7s thread over on the grandstand as well (ie: expecting immediate results). "

What????
I didnt expect immediate results.And WTF has the forums 7s got to do with anything? The fact that those guys can't even decide who is the referee simply typifies the competition.

I say one thing, tongue-in-cheek: "it getting mighty hard to get result here folks. This question must be one hot potato..." and you think I was trying hurry you christian guys up... my my, what a touchie lot. I was actually thinking how the whole thing was going around in circles and that no one was addressing the question at hand. I wasn't hurrying anyone up... I'm gobsmacked.
emdgust.gif


I still think that the Catholic Church is trying to dictate faith and make itself the boss christian church. It took a barrage of posts before Moffo finally realised this so how many other Catholics feel the same way?
 
C

CanadianSteve

Guest
Well, Willow, 2 of us took your comment the same way.

I was actually thinking how the whole thing was going around in circles. I also said a few posts back that the discussion is getting circular. I'm not sure if there's much new to be said.
 
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4,446
Willow, you made a comment and we replied to it. How are we supposed to pick up tongue-in-cheek-edness over a discussion board? lol

My forum 7s point was that you gave them the hurry-up when they didn't mark the game after a day or so. I was thinking that you were making a similar comment here. Apologies mate, but if your going to make a comment such as that, how are we supposed to automatically pick up the tongue-in-cheek?

"I still think that the Catholic Church is trying to dictate faith and make itself the boss christian church. It took a barrage of posts before Moffo finally realised this so how many other Catholics feel the same way?"

Sorry, but i must have missed the bit where i realised that. I also must have missed the warning on the front of thiswebsitethat says ifyou don't agree with Willow than your wrong :pIf you read what i said in reply to what Mystery Man said earlier, i said that faith was a thing for the individual and a private matter. I think someone is missing the point. And I can tell you this, most catholics will say the same thing in modern day society. The times of people mindlessly following everything that comes out of the Vatican are long gone.

And where is your proof that the catholic church is trying to make itself boss?

Touchy? Far from it mate ;)But im not going to sit here and let comments that i disagree with pass through to the keeper

Cheers,
Moffo
 
K

Kiwi

Guest
Kiwi, I am not Roman Catholic. I go to a Baptist church. I think if you read my recent posts carefully I spelled that out. I said "trying to summarize" because there is no on Protestant authority to quote from on these matters. I was trying to explain what I perceive as conservative, Protestant Christian interpretation.

I am sorry, missed that bit. Well substitute Protestant in for catholic then in my statement. Either way you are judging other christian religons to be christian or not depending on your own beliefs, from your own church. Your views on mormans being christians or not for exampleis biased because of your beliefs.

 
C

CanadianSteve

Guest
Yes, no doubt I am expressing my own beliefs. I never indicated otherwise. I was, again, trying to explain a point of view of one section of Christianity, based on things I've read and heard. I'm aware that Mormons wouldn't agree, and some more "liberal" Christians wouldn't see it my way either.

Surely the views of everyone posting here, believers and atheists, are "biased because of their beliefs." Except for Eye, whose views depend on who he's cut and pasted from.
 
K

Kiwi

Guest
Yes, no doubt I am expressing my own beliefs. I never indicated otherwise. I was, again, trying to explain a point of view of one section of Christianity, based on things I've read and heard. I'm aware that Mormons wouldn't agree, and some more "liberal" Christians wouldn't see it my way either.


well that sounds better, it's you opinion fair enough, because when you said this

I was trying to summarize conservative Christian opinion

It sounded like you were trying to speak for a section of the religous community which comes across as being pretty arrogant.
 
K

Kiwi

Guest
Willow, you made a comment and we replied to it. How are we supposed to pick up tongue-in-cheek-edness over a discussion board? lol

My forum 7s point was that you gave them the hurry-up when they didn't mark the game after a day or so. I was thinking that you were making a similar comment here. Apologies mate, but if your going to make a comment such as that, how are we supposed to automatically pick up the tongue-in-cheek

Sorry, but i must have missed the bit where i realised that. I also must have missed the warning on the front of thiswebsitethat says ifyou don't agree with Willow than your wrong :p

Willow mate your not going well today LOL

P.S the last comment in the Waugh thread was tongue-in-cheek LOL
 
C

CanadianSteve

Guest
I think it went without saying that "trying to summarize" meant in my in my own words and opinions. I've never pretended to be a spokesman for a large group of people.
 
K

Kiwi

Guest
maybe thats what you meant but saying that your trying to summarize conservative Christian opinion looks more like you are summarizing the opinions of others and what you believe to be conservative christian opinion.
 
C

CanadianSteve

Guest
"maybe thats what you meant but saying that your trying to summarize conservative Christian opinion looks more like you are summarizing the opinions of others and what you believe to be conservative christian opinion"

1. The word trying implies that I was giving my own opinions, not a dogmatic statement

2. what you believe - You said it yourself, it was what I believe
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
110,139
CS: "Well, Willow, 2 of us took your comment the same way."

Re: "it getting mighty hard to get result here folks. This question must be one hot potato"
Where in tarnation does that say, 'hurry up and give me an answer'???
The term, 'hot potato' means that something is being passed around in haste.
Fair dinkum, you guys are pulling out all the funnies today.

Moffo:

"but i must have missed the bit where i realised that. I also must have missed the warning on the front of thiswebsitethat says ifyou don't agree with Willow than your wrong "
Ha ha... I'm not saying you are wrong for disagreeing with me. I just thought it was simple logic that the Pope is not allowed to dictate who is of the Christian faith and who is not.

"i said that faith was a thing for the individual and a private matter"
I understand all that and I respect it. But thats not what I'm asking.

You have suggested on a number of occasions that Mormons and Christians are two separate things. I thought you were finally coming to the view that Mormons are also Christians. Moreover, I thought you now aware that the Vatican is not the head of Christian belief.


Are you saying that you still hold the view that the Vatican needs to accept your church before you can follow the word of Jesus Christ?

I guess you're right, you haven't answered that question.
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
110,139
Kiwi: "Willow mate your not going well today LOL"
lol.. thanks Kiwi but I'm having a beaut day. :)
 
K

Kiwi

Guest
"maybe thats what you meant but saying that your trying to summarize conservative Christian opinion looks more like you are summarizing the opinions of others and what you believe to be conservative christian opinion"

1. The word trying implies that I was giving my own opinions, not a dogmatic statement

Using the word trying does not automatically mean that you were trying to give your own opinion. You said you were trying to summarize conservative christian opinion, meaning you were trying to summarize the opinion of a section of people. If it was to mean what you say it automatically does, then you would have said that you were trying to summarize your opinion as a conservative christian. See the major difference there?


2. what you believe - You said it yourself, it was what I believe

You took that completely out of the context of the sentance. What you believe to be conservative christian opinion. Meaning that you are summarizing what you believe to be the opinions of others and not yourself.

I understand what you meant now, all i said was the way it was written it could be easily taken the other way that i have shown. No need to carry on defending the sentance as like I said before, I now know what you meant to say was not what the sentance implied.

 
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4,446
lol, what a mamoth debate

" I just thought it was simple logic that the Pope is not allowed to dictate who is of the Christian faith and who is not."

Of course he isn't allowed to, and i agree with that.

"i said that faith was a thing for the individual and a private matter"
I understand all that and I respect it. But thats not what I'm asking.

Yeh, ok, but you said before that "I still think that the Catholic Church is trying to dictate faith" Which one is it? Do u think faith is a matter for the individual or for the catholic church to dictate?

Ill say it one moreee time, Mormons view themselves as Christians. The vatican (which represents roman catholics, not christians), do not recognise them. Catholics make up a large % of the christian population. Does the position of the catholic faith hold any weight in this argument, seeing that they make up a significant proportion of the christian faith? Wouldn't it be interesting to know why they dont recognise Mormons, but recognise other religions? Just a thought

"Moreover, I thought you now aware that the Vatican is not the head of Christian belief."

The vatican is the head of the catholic faith.I shall now repeat that 1000 times before bed lol

"Are you saying that you still hold the view that the Vatican needs to accept your church before you can follow the word of Jesus Christ?"

No, and i dont think i have revealed in this conversation so far what christian denomination I am. But i think that is irrelevant anyways. The Vatican is the head of the catholic faith and nothing else (thats how i see them anyways)

"I guess you're right, you haven't answered that question."

Did i admit to that? Goodness, this argument is going around the twists lol. I dont think this argument is making me any more sainer...lol, goodnight all

Moffo

 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
110,139
Moffo, IMO, faith should be an individual thing but the Vatican does try to tell people how to think. I accept that you don't take their word as gospel though.
I was of the opinion that the Vatican is trying to tell everyone what a Christian is.. when in reality, a Christian is simply someone who follows the word of Jesus Christ. By not recognising other Christian faiths, it could be said that the Catholic church is using their position of power to define Christianity.... and even how a person should observe their faith. You suggested as much in one of your posts (#290).

As for the other stuff Moffo, it looks like we got an answer.
But I hope you understand that it had to be extracted with a tyre lever. Your side stepping and contradictions on the issue was impressive to say the least. :)

Please allow me to take us for a walk down memory lane.;)

It all started back in post #242 when you made comment on a query:

("Are there any other religons other than christianity that insist on trying to convert everyone else?")
Moffo: How about stacking up Christians against Mormons?

I thought, 'hello, Moffothinks that Mormons are Christians are different.'
...and then it continued....

Moffo # 253: "Welll, this may be so, but Mormon teachings are different from Christian teachings. "
and
"Mormons and Christians are different."

(Willow # 288: "Moffo... You are differentiating Mormons from Christians.")
Moffo # 290: "Why do they feel the need to differentiate themselves from Christians if they are Christians? <u>They do things in a different way to Christians</u>, hence they give themselves a different title. "
and
"Perhaps i should go up to a Mormon and ask them one day why they feel the need to differentiate themselves from Christians. "
and this little beauty...
"...the christian faith and the vatician dont acknowledge Mormons as part of the faith"

Starting to get the picture but still not convinced...
Moffo # 306: "the vatican doesnt acknowledge Mormons. They fall under the Christian banner, ok, well i guess that is up for debate. "
and
"They might see themselves as representing the Christian religion, but obviously the vatican don't see things the same way..."
and
"...it would be good to see what the vatican officially has to say on the issue"
and
"saying 'they see themselves as Christians' is all fine and dandy, but there must be reasons why the vatican doesn't see it the same way. "

A break through...
Moffo # 329: "Mormons see themselves as christians. That is how i should've said it. "
lol, but old habits die hard...
"some sections of the Mormoncommunity differ fundamentally from Christian beliefs. That is why i said before that <u>they aren't Christians as such</u>. "

And lastly but not leastly, a defining moment...
Moffo # 358: "Ill say it one moreee time, Mormons view themselves as Christians. "

One more time...? LOL... thankyou for indulging me.

So you can see why I didnt think you were answering this question... perhaps it was the question that was at fault.Anyway, you were twisting it into a knot so tight that it could have stopped the Queen Mary from leaving port. But we got there in the end. :)

On a final note mate, no offence intended for the post pasting. I thought some of it was pretty interesting and even funny. I think you lost your way on the Mormon thing but by and large, you put forward some good arguments.

Happy New Year.
embeer.gif
emcocktl.gif
:D
 
K

Kiwi

Guest
On a lighter note, and to bring up the 360, I saw this comedian on Conan and he said something that made me laugh and think of this edebate.

"If we are all the children of god, what makes jesus so special?"
 

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