Thoughts on society.....

[El Duque]

I saw something funny on ACA when they were interviwing the Raelian leader and he said he was Jesus' brother.

He looked like he was wearing one of Michael Jackson's tops drom the 80's. Funny stuff.

 

[Willow]

The priest in a small Irish village was very fond of the chicken he kept in the hen house out the back of the parish house. He had a cock rooster and about ten hens. One Saturday night the cock rooster was missing and as that was the time he suspected cock fights occurred in the village he decided to do something about it at church the next morning. At Mass, he asked the congregation, "Has anybody got a cock?" All the men stood up. "No no" he said. "That wasn't what I meant. Has anybody seen a cock?" All the women stood up. "No no" he said. "That wasn't what I meant. Has anybody seen a cock that doesn't belong to them." Half the women stood up. "No no" he said "That wasn't what I meant either. Has anybody seen my cock?" All the choir boys stood up.

 

[CanadianSteve]

If we are all the children of god, what makes jesus so special?"

Notice how, even in this age of political correctness, it's still ok to make fun of Jesus and Christianity. They would never allow a comparable joke about Muhammad or Buddha on American tv.

The answer is that Jesus was the "only begotten Son" of God. The rest of us were created, and are spiritual children of God,but begotten means Jesus was of the same nature as God - i.e. He was God. What else makes Jesus special is the miracles he performed, including the ultimate miracle, his resurrection from the dead.

 

[Cut&Pasteye]

That looks like a copy of somthing to me their melon head,the Sydney Cathlics are on a drive to have 10% of the population come into their church by 2010.

 

[Cut&Pasteye]

<span>LONDON: The Queen's high standing among the British public cannot disguise a widespread feeling that her family is lazy and out of touch, a poll showed yesterday.SEE THAT YOUR GENES TAKE OVER NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR ENVIRONMENT</span>

 

[Leisotto]

And the debate rages on! But by and large, after an hour of reading, i must say, its all been very interesting and thought provoking. Predictably, the debate shifted onto religion, although it would've been good to see some more discussion on the environment v genes question. Eye, your last post is probably quite a good example, the genes are the sole reason why the royal family has such power. Nothing to do with the environment, if you are born into the royal family, you have it all set out for you in advance

Just reading over it, i was attempting to grasp everyone's basic idea on the religion v non-religion discussion. It just helps me to follow the posts more clearly, and i came up with this. Apologies if the titles are offensive, it was the simplest way that i could differentiate

Believe in a Religion - Canadian Steve, MFC, Legend, Hutch, Eye

Don't believe in a Religion as such - Willow, Kiwi, El Duque, Everlovin Antichrist, Ozbash

Is that pretty much right? Hmmm, it made for quite a balanced debate, with both sides being able to get their points across.

There is so much to comment on, that id only be boring everyone with picking apart every response. However, i thought that a few people got tangled up in their points, on both sides, throughout the debate. Moffo seemed to take a while to get across his point on Mormons, and there was much confusion over it. However, apart from the contradiction on Mormons not being Christians (which still remains somewhat debateable),i thought it was put across alright.

To save all the confusion, it should've been said straight off that Mormons view themselves as Christian. But that in itself, doesn't mean a lot. I mean, suicide bombers view themselves as doing the right thing when they blow up a bus in the middle east. But does that make it 'doing the right thing'??

I know, its a simplistic comparision, but the point is, how people view themselves and how they are actually viewed can quite often be different things. But i can see where the confusion stemmed from!

As for the jokes about Jesus, well i guess its the flavour of the month in terms of comedy. As Steve said, if you made a joke about muhammed at the moment, you would be shot down in flames. But its also a case of remembering the political tensions at the moment involving certain religions.

But still, i will stand by this comment and say that the gene/environment influence is about 50:50, on average

Regards,
Leisotto

 

[Kiwi]

Notice how, even in this age of political correctness, it's still ok to make fun of Jesus and Christianity. They would never allow a comparable joke about Muhammad or Buddha on American tv.

The answer is that Jesus was the "only begotten Son" of God. The rest of us were created, and are spiritual children of God,but begotten means Jesus was of the same nature as God - i.e. He was God. What else makes Jesus special is the miracles he performed, including the ultimate miracle, his resurrection from the dead.


I find hilarious that you felt the need to justify why a humorous joke heard on TV is so wrong as if it was a statement made in a debate like this...LOL take a chill pill

 

[Willow]

CS: "They would never allow a comparable joke about Muhammad or Buddha on American tv"
LOL.. well perhaps God doesn't have a sense of humour then. That being the case, I'm in deep shit...

 

[Kiwi]

LOL.. well perhaps God doesn't have a sense of humour then. That being the case, I'm in deep shit...

Mate i've got getting into heaven all worked out, you can just do what i'm gonna do. I'm gonna go up to the pearly gates, run in and out of the them slamming the gatesbehind me each time untill the dude at the gates says " jesus f**king christ Ian are you coming in or staying out "

 

[Willow]

Leisotto:
"As for the jokes about Jesus, well i guess its the flavour of the month in terms of comedy. As Steve said, if you made a joke about muhammed at the moment, you would be shot down in flames. But its also a case of remembering the political tensions at the moment involving certain religions."

Flavour of the month? lol.. ok. I thought it had been going on a bit longer than that but we'll let Dave Allen know that he was years ahead of his time.

IMO, this is more about social conditioning than any religious subject. The reason whyjokes about christians are so popular possibly stem from the fact that there are so many of them. Some of them, like the Irish Catholic comedian Dave Allen, have been laughing at themselves for generations.
To make a joke aboutminority religions would fall a bit flat in the USA but if you watch that wonderful social commentary series, 'The Simpsons', you'll hear quite a few jokes about Hindus, that being because one of the main characters is Indian ('there are only 600 million of us you know', lol).
So on balance, the notion that there are only jokes about Christians is wrong.

Oh and btw, Leisotto. I know its a personal choice and seem to see yourself as the chairperson of all this stuff but where shallwe pencil you in the 'us v them' debate that you illustrated for us?
No offence intended but I'm willing to hazard a guess and place you with the 'Believe in a Religion' side of the fence.

 

This message has been deleted by the author.

 

[imported_Mystery_Man]

"Eye, your last post is probably quite a good example, the genes are the sole reason why the royal family has such power. Nothing to do with the environment, if you are born into the royal family, you have it all set out for you in advance."

I disagree completely. I think that example has everything to do with the environment, and nothing to do with the genes. The royals are born into that environment, and that is why they have that power.

 

[New_Year_EYE]

What came first the environment or the genes you have to go right back for that one, it is a man made environment created by a strong gene pool,put 5 people in the same environment and they will all come out different so it has to be what mother &amp; father you had not the environmentHAPPY NEW YEAR EVERY ONE!

 

[Oneyedwitness]

The mall is the home of American culture. It is where you will find the shops, the movies, the fast food chains that really are conquering the world. But doesn't the mall with its blandness and its sameness represent everything that people hate and fear about America, I ask isit cool or does it suck

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

Kiwi, their environment in this situation is determined by their genes. Simply, Prince William could've just as easily been born into a family of 20 in Bombay and lived in an environment much different to the royal experience. And it comes back to the genes, initially at least

Cheers,
Moffo

 

[Leisotto]

"Oh and btw, Leisotto. I know its a personal choice and seem to see yourself as the chairperson of all this stuff but where shallwe pencil you in the 'us v them' debate that you illustrated for us? No offence intended but I'm willing to hazard a guess and place you with the 'Believe in a Religion' side of the fence."

Chairperson? Well, i guess you can take it that way. I was attempting to work out which 'side' everyone was on. Do i believe in religion? Well, you can pencil me down for the believing in religion group.

Why?

Id like to think that i think independently and are not heavily influenced by the media and other groups. Believe it or not, my belief in a 'God' and religion in general stems from common sense and logic

I dont wish to rabble on for ages. But let me offer one example. The human body. The human body is one of the most amazing phenomenons that i can think of. The way it operates, how it is created and used, is more or less, an amazing feat, and far more complex than any scientist could dream up. The smooth functioning of our body is the perfect example. We have noses to breathe, fingers to perform practical tasks, eyes to see, ears to hear. I firmly don't believe in the suggestion that science, or natural evolution, could throw together such a perfect thing as the human body. The amazing ability of the body to create new life, it goes on and on. And for me, i think there had to be some form of 'higher'being that creates all this.

Evolution is one thing, and i agree to an extent that it co-exists with religion, but i think the human body (continuing on the previous example) came from something a bit more sophisticated than chance

There are just a lot of holes in the non-religion theory. Whilst not knowing the complete history of 'evolution', i think it is widely agreed that the first signs of life occured in the water. Given that, how did these signs of life ever make it out of the water and onto land? How did the body evolve? I dont understand how the body could just 'change' to suit the environment. And how did the body adapt to accept the air that we breathe in today?

To many holes. And its a complex argument, im probably already getting people into tangles with my previous 2 paragraphs lol

 

[Kiwi]

I dont wish to rabble on for ages. But let me offer one example. The human body. The human body is one of the most amazing phenomenons that i can think of. The way it operates, how it is created and used, is more or less, an amazing feat, and far more complex than any scientist could dream up. The smooth functioning of our body is the perfect example. We have noses to breathe, fingers to perform practical tasks, eyes to see, ears to hear. I firmly don't believe in the suggestion that science, or natural evolution, could throw together such a perfect thing as the human body. The amazing ability of the body to create new life, it goes on and on. And for me, i think there had to be some form of 'higher'being that creates all this.


The human body is not perfect. We can not breathe under water, we can not run as fast as a cheetah, swim as fast as a mako or have the strength of an ant. Our body is quite fragile when compared to other forms of life on this planet. He contract cancer from nothing more than type of gene we carry. At times our minds die faster than our bodies do. We are far from "perfect" And I find it more logical to believe that we evolved rather than some dude made us in his image. Animals create new life as well. Any species in the universe must have the ability to make life or die, it's a simple fact, a whole lotta fun, but simple, unless you try Kama Sutra then simple goes out the window.


There are just a lot of holes in the non-religion theory.

This made me laugh. There are more holes in religion. The only evidence you guys haveis a book written by man ( probably the church ), and a catch phase in "you gotta have faith", come on you wanna talk holes in any non-religion theories be prepared to have your faith picked apart.


Whilst not knowing the complete history of 'evolution', i think it is widely agreed that the first signs of life occured in the water. Given that, how did these signs of life ever make it out of the water and onto land? How did the body evolve? I dont understand how the body could just 'change' to suit the environment. And how did the body adapt to accept the air that we breathe in today?

There are many animals that spend just as much time in the water as they do out of it, and not every animal in the oceon breathes under water. Take Whales, dolphins, and turtles for example. All are marine animals yet all breathe the same air that you andI do. Add to that the fact that most marine animals breathe air just like you and I do, they just simply filter the air from the water through gills.

 

[Kiwi]

Kiwi, their environment in this situation is determined by their genes. Simply, Prince William could've just as easily been born into a family of 20 in Bombay and lived in an environment much different to the royal experience. And it comes back to the genes, initially at least

Cheers,
Moffo


I think Mystery Man is the one you are after not me. i never said squat about the genes v enviroment thing, i'm just here to bash religous people

 

[Willow]

Leisotto: "Chairperson? Well, i guess you can take it that way. "
Actually, more of a 'facilitator'...
To be honest mate, I thought youwere siding with the churchies in your follow up post... ('adamant' is code for disagreeing)... which is fine.

As for you higher being creating humans, what of other life forms on other planets?
Imo, the Universe is endless - while the Christian God is restricted to those who created him on planet Earth.

Moreover,the Christian God is not the only God on planet Earth. We have had thousands of gods and the even now in the 21st Century, there are hundreds of different faiths with different icons to worship. It's true thatthe Human species still haven't managed to agree even on the most simplest of questions: 'who is God?'

It stands to reason that we have countless environments on countless planets in countless galaxies.This createsmany chances of life being created given time. Not just on Earth but in many other places as well.
It also stands to reason that every civilisation enjoys the notion ofmanufacturing their very own powerful creators, or gods.

 

[Willow]

Leisotto # 366: "Moffo seemed to take a while to get across his point on Mormons, and there was much confusion over it. However, apart from the contradiction on Mormons not being Christians (which still remains somewhat debateable),i thought it was put across alright."

I still have a problem with this.

Why is it debatable that Mormons are Christians?
They have faith in Jesus Christ and isn't this faith the basic tenet of Christianity?