Time to restructure the JV

[Gourley's Socks]

No dodgy back room deal was done by Doust, people may not like Doust but he did not do a dodgy deal.

Doust tried to get Illawarra RLFC (who were drowning to debt) to get them to sell their JV shares to St George Leagues Club. The decision to sell the shares to WIN Corporation was made by the Illawarra Steelers RLFC, they did not want to sell their shares back to St George Leagues because they were worried about Illawarra district being forgotten by the new owners.

The article posted by Andrew Webster in the Sydney Morning Herald a few years ago that accused the JV of doing dodgy deals was long on vitriol but short on facts and he quoted a disgrintled potential buyer without verifying publicly available facts or checking whether the disgruntled party was in fact telling the truth, which he was not.

The St George Illawarra Dragons RLFC is not a publicly listed company, therefore who shares were sold to is a decision for the owners of those shares (Illawarra RLFC) not the board or CEO of the St George Illawarra Dragons subject to any ownership covenants. It does not have to follow a tender or public offer process and the sellers, Illawarra RLFC, were not, subject to any covenants, required to sell to the highest bidder.

In all likelihood the best the other shareholders, ie St George Leagues Club, might have in any covenant is a veto power over who the shares are sold to. Given that WIN was a major sponsor and compared to Illawarra RLFC is not drowning in debt enforcing such a veto to prevent WIN from buying the shares when Illawarra RLFC had made it clear that they would sell their shares to St George Leagues Club would have been disingenuous at best.

As part of the new ownership arrangement Doust arranged for both St George Leagues Club and WIN to have equal board members but critically for the Chairmen to be appointed by St George Leagues Club meaning that in the event of a deadlock on the board the Chairmen has the casting vote. So at least coming out of the sale the Chairmen no longer rotates between the two owners and the Red V has majority vote.

Thanks Peter.

Seriously though, interesting read.

 

[smi962]

I hate seeing facts go unchecked- Just to make you read once and for all-we were in Grand Finals in 1985,1992,1993,1996. Thats what success we had. During that period Illawarra were in NONE. Just because we didnt win does not equate to no success. Try reading before engaging mouth

Yes because in the early to mid 90s, especially, we punched well above our weight on the field relative to off the field. But this is not sustainable over the long term. We had a lot of the same off field issues as now around league clubs funding, corporate support, a strong junior nursery, jubilee issues, losing some of our best players to other clubs.

Remember when we started in 96, we didn't have enough players or a coach, and the smell of Newtown comment was made by smithy. Amazing we made the gf under those circumstances.

We could have survived on our own but we were not going to be a powerhouse club or even a club that consistently made gfs. Not that the joint venture improved much, but think it's disingenous to put this all at the feet of the steelers.

 

[Inisai Toga]

Yes because in the early to mid 90s, especially, we punched well above our weight on the field relative to off the field. But this is not sustainable over the long term. We had a lot of the same off field issues as now around league clubs funding, corporate support, a strong junior nursery, jubilee issues, losing some of our best players to other clubs.

Remember when we started in 96, we didn't have enough players or a coach, and the smell of Newtown comment was made by smithy. Amazing we made the gf under those circumstances.

We could have survived on our own but we were not going to be a powerhouse club or even a club that consistently made gfs. Not that the joint venture improved much, but think it's disingenous to put this all at the feet of the steelers.

……fair, but the 96 comment that get so much air was in the heart of the super league war. No club as much as Saints got hit as hard, one reason was our recruitment was so effective in those years and we were a prime target for Super League not necessarily due poor club management.

 

[muzby]

……fair, but the 96 comment that get so much air was in the heart of the super league war. No club as much as Saints got hit as hard

Disagree.

Dean Schiffiliti to the Adelaide Rams & Neil Pincinelli to the Hunter Mariners trumps that.

 

[smi962]

……fair, but the 96 comment that get so much air was in the heart of the super league war. No club as much as Saints got hit as hard, one reason was our recruitment was so effective in those years and we were a prime target for Super League not necessarily due poor club management.

I would suggest it's because we were so weak financially and maybe more importantly blindly aligned with the arl that we got hit so hard by super league. We all know when the competitions merged, the super league clubs ended up in a stronger position compared to teams that aligned with the arl.

 

[Inisai Toga]

They Super League would have loved to have the Red V. Couldn't get a big significant Sydney team as Cronulla and Penrith weren’t as strong as were financially struggling and no surprise they crossed over; thats why ARL were filthy at the Dogs signing as it gave the opposition comp some respectability. Remember talking to a recruitment officer at another club at the time and he was so vocal in praise of Saints, Smith and Max Nimiis (i think) in their recruitment and innovation. Prior to Super League we were looking pretty good development wise; so sorry have a different opinion of were the club was positioned then.
Agree though that the Super League style and concept won out. However, in those days one of the clubs right in the eliminating target talk was Easts, no junior league; poor support base; poor crowds etc and there was doubt they would meet the criteria at the time. Ironic!

 

[Trifili13]

They Super League would have loved to have the Red V. Couldn't get a big significant Sydney team as Cronulla and Penrith weren’t as strong as were financially struggling and no surprise they crossed over; thats why ARL were filthy at the Dogs signing as it gave the opposition comp some respectability. Remember talking to a recruitment officer at another club at the time and he was so vocal in praise of Saints, Smith and Max Nimiis (i think) in their recruitment and innovation. Prior to Super League we were looking pretty good development wise; so sorry have a different opinion of were the club was positioned then.
Agree though that the Super League style and concept won out. However, in those days one of the clubs right in the eliminating target talk was Easts, no junior league; poor support base; poor crowds etc and there was doubt they would meet the criteria at the time. Ironic!

It is Max Ninnis.
The Dragon's got shafted for staying loyal to the ARL while the Rooster's picked up Fittler, Sing, and Gourley and Barnhill from us. And we continue to get shafted by the NRL.

 

[smi962]

They Super League would have loved to have the Red V. Couldn't get a big significant Sydney team as Cronulla and Penrith weren’t as strong as were financially struggling and no surprise they crossed over; thats why ARL were filthy at the Dogs signing as it gave the opposition comp some respectability. Remember talking to a recruitment officer at another club at the time and he was so vocal in praise of Saints, Smith and Max Nimiis (i think) in their recruitment and innovation. Prior to Super League we were looking pretty good development wise; so sorry have a different opinion of were the club was positioned then.
Agree though that the Super League style and concept won out. However, in those days one of the clubs right in the eliminating target talk was Easts, no junior league; poor support base; poor crowds etc and there was doubt they would meet the criteria at the time. Ironic!

Agree the recruitment must have been doing something good at that time, given we had no money and kept losing our players, yet made a few grand finals. I was mainly talking long term prospects , recruitment couldn’t continue to make up for small crowds, small junior base that wasn’t growing, a relatively non profitable leagues club (at this time, league clubs profits largely drove how successful you could be as a Sydney club). Carr was too integrated into the nswrl/arl to put the club first and get the best deal for the dragons with respect to super league. Steelers were the same, bob milward their ceo was well entrenched in the nswrl and sacked the most successful Steelers coach for even trying to organise a meeting with super league. Dragons and Steelers were blindly loyal to their own detriment.

 

[Steel Saints]

Stephen Martin, ALP politician who held the Cunningham seat at the time of the Super League war was also a director at the Steelers. He resigned from the board of directors in '95 where all hell broke loose.

Martin's stance was for the Steelers to go to Super League, or at the very least have talks with News Ltd. Bob Millward and the Steelers instead stuck loyal with the ARL. And what did the ARL do in return? They turned the Steelers into a "Sydney" club as part of that farcical criteria of cutting down teams.

You look at the Super League clubs. Penrith, Canterbury and Cronulla all survived. Perth Reds were the biggest casualty.

Over at the ARL, there was carnage everywhere. Three mergers, Souths, Crushers and Gold Coast all getting the boot. Only Parra, Roosters and Newcastle survived.

I guess the lesson for both Dragons and Steelers is it's one thing to stick "loyal", but it's another to look at another side that has opportunity and money. We went with the ARL who had no money and in the end got shafted.

In conclusion, Martin was right, while Millward was played like a fool.

 

[pinball_collector]

In conclusion, Martin was right, while Millward was played like a for a fool.

I agree with most of the above.

We're you there in the talks regarding the Steelers?

Have sat down and had a few long talks with Bob over the years. If you really knew what went on you would have a different outlook.

 

[Steel Saints]

I agree with most of the above.

We're you there in the talks regarding the Steelers?

Have sat down and had a few long talks with Bob over the years. If you really knew what went on you would have a different outlook.

I wasn't there at the coalface, but I have heard and read stories around Super League for many years since. And yes, not every story you hear or read is accurate.

I do have many questions though. One of them is, why were the Steelers classified as a Sydney team during the criteria process?

 

[VodkaSaint]

Daily Telegraph

ROOSTERS’ $140M CASH COUP

The days of NRL clubs relying on shrinking poker machine revenue to survive are long gone.

The Sydney Roosters recently purchased a medical centre in Bondi Junction for $26.5m.

It takes their property portfolio to $140m, including the old Randwick Post Office and an apartment block in Kingsford that houses their junior academy players.

The post office is leased to the Ted Noffs Foundation for $1-a-year peppercorn rent as a Roosters charity contribution.

The medical centre adjoins four other properties the club owns in Bondi Junction.

It is a remarkable story in that 20 years ago there was a real threat to the long-term sustainability of having nine clubs based in Sydney.

The Roosters were one of those clubs fighting for survival.

Then billionaire chairman Nick Politis decided some time ago to do something about it.

“The board and management are strategically focused on ensuring the organisation is financially secure for its long-term future,” says CEO Joe Kelly.

“In order to do so, we are complementing the traditional licensed club revenues with a strong property rent roll. Being a proud foundation club that is 115 years old this season, we are building a business that will be prosperous over the next 115 years.”

Independent commission boss Peter V’landys is super impressed.

“It’s a really smart strategy to purchase revenue-raising assets that aren’t part of the core business,” V’landys said.

“The Roosters have been the benchmark.

“It means long term you can cope with any challenges.”

The NRL is doing the same. Last year it purchased the iconic Gambaro Hotel in Brisbane for $25m and is looking at other property investments.

The Roosters are not the only club doing well.

Penrith Group has a net asset base of $160m. That’s five licensed clubs and 32ha in Penrith that generates rental income from McDonalds, KFC, Krispy Kream and other outlets.

In two months, the club will open a new five-star Pullman Hotel and 100-seat convention centre that will lift the Panthers’ asset base to $200m.

 

[Dragon David]

Daily Telegraph

ROOSTERS’ $140M CASH COUP

The days of NRL clubs relying on shrinking poker machine revenue to survive are long gone.

The Sydney Roosters recently purchased a medical centre in Bondi Junction for $26.5m.

It takes their property portfolio to $140m, including the old Randwick Post Office and an apartment block in Kingsford that houses their junior academy players.

The post office is leased to the Ted Noffs Foundation for $1-a-year peppercorn rent as a Roosters charity contribution.

The medical centre adjoins four other properties the club owns in Bondi Junction.

It is a remarkable story in that 20 years ago there was a real threat to the long-term sustainability of having nine clubs based in Sydney.

The Roosters were one of those clubs fighting for survival.

Then billionaire chairman Nick Politis decided some time ago to do something about it.

“The board and management are strategically focused on ensuring the organisation is financially secure for its long-term future,” says CEO Joe Kelly.

“In order to do so, we are complementing the traditional licensed club revenues with a strong property rent roll. Being a proud foundation club that is 115 years old this season, we are building a business that will be prosperous over the next 115 years.”

Independent commission boss Peter V’landys is super impressed.

“It’s a really smart strategy to purchase revenue-raising assets that aren’t part of the core business,” V’landys said.

“The Roosters have been the benchmark.

“It means long term you can cope with any challenges.”

The NRL is doing the same. Last year it purchased the iconic Gambaro Hotel in Brisbane for $25m and is looking at other property investments.

The Roosters are not the only club doing well.

Penrith Group has a net asset base of $160m. That’s five licensed clubs and 32ha in Penrith that generates rental income from McDonalds, KFC, Krispy Kream and other outlets.

In two months, the club will open a new five-star Pullman Hotel and 100-seat convention centre that will lift the Panthers’ asset base to $200m.

Those clubs and some others have invested wisely. Good business managers employed by those clubs helping make the clubs secure for the long haul and long term viability. It just makes "cents" doesn't it?

 

[VodkaSaint]

Those clubs and some others have invested wisely. Good business managers employed by those clubs helping make the clubs secure for the long haul and long term viability. It just makes "cents" doesn't it?

sure does, what ive heard about out club is they've sold most of the assets.

 

[Dragon David]

sure does, what ive heard about out club is they've sold most of the assets.

Making us not asset rich on top of not being football rich. Surely if we have Bruce as one of the shareholders he would want his business and assets to grow? Isn't he developing some unit complex in Wollongong that is supposed to be the ants pants?

 

[Coffs dragon]

sure does, what ive heard about out club is they've sold most of the assets.

Yeah but we have the Crown Dragon Chinese Restaurant in the club and what an asset that’s been. Many a recruit has been signed up after a plate of dim sims. LOL

 

[Dragon David]

Yeah but we have the Crown Dragon Chinese Restaurant in the club and what an asset that’s been. Many a recruit has been signed up after a plate of dim sims. LOL

That is why we have ended up with a lot of Dum Bums!

 

[VodkaSaint]

there is something special brewing at the moment, the juniors coming through if signed up nurtured correctly we can be a force again, if they screw this up it will be another 10 years all over again.

 

[thebigredv]

When was the last time the St George Illawarra Dragons made finals?
When was the last time Wests Tigers made finals?
Where are the Northern Eagles?

I’ll admit I am having sour grapes watching the rise and rise of clubs like Souths, Easts and Cronulla given they could have so easily been wiped or amalgamated instead of us. 25 years on from Super League times they are getting a golden run on and off the field. New stadiums and upgrades, a Wighton here, a Nicho there, a trip to Las Vegas to be the centre of attention etc. At the end of the day good luck to them but shame, shame, shame for the death of the red v club who can’t even get a run in round one!

It makes it tough when every action our club tries to take forward is hampered by the now proven fact that mergers don’t work unless one club completely usurps the other. All we get from year to year are individuals that use us for their own gain and the days of GST and army on the hill and the passion are dwindling and disappearing forever.

No word of a lie I’d be fine if we were wiped from the comp tomorrow or turned into the Steelers or what have you. All my Norths mates have moved on, found new clubs, new interests but here we are addicted to this train wreck - can’t watch, can’t look away. Rather than turning up to the footy proud as punch, excited, nervous, what we are all trying to get behind is a myth - look at the coach and players that represent us. No sense of culture or care for one another or for the history of the club and the greats that came before. At least the Raiders in comparison have a coach that sheds tears for them. What I would give for a bit of that. We just get coke guzzling and bickering.

I don’t know what I expect to change at this point. It’s all business. We’ve all become disillusioned for so long. Reckon I am just about done.

 

[Illusion]

there is something special brewing at the moment, the juniors coming through if signed up nurtured correctly we can be a force again, if they screw this up it will be another 10 years all over again.

We cant do another 10 years , they wont exist , if things dont start to improve soon .....