Todd Greenberg has got to go!

[T-Boon]

? Did not state every suburb! The key idea is "Established clubs". People just dont gravitate to a rep team brand the way you are proposing . Not trying to insult. The idea is ludicrous if you think that stacks up against longtime recognisable, culturally significant, real world established club brands! Go figure! You just don't click a finger for that and expect the public to get on board. Clubs are a well earnt culturally significant and identifiable entity that are based on generational rivalries and support. Rep teams just don't cut the mustard in the market place in the way you propose.

The A-League has shown that is not the case. Remember Marconi and those other small passionate Sydney clubs that had 5000 crowds. They still exist at a lower level but their fans have got on board and unified with the 2 A-league clubs. The Sydney A-League top tier clubs now get what 10-12k each game.

 

[Stallion]

The A-League has shown that is not the case. Remember Marconi and those other small passionate Sydney clubs that had 5000 crowds. They still exist at a lower level but their fans have got on board and unified with the 2 A-league clubs. The Sydney A-League top tier clubs now get what 10-12k each game.

ALeague is a different kettle of fish to the very well established and popular Sydney rugby league clubs. I would also suggest the ALeague has chosen a different season to play. That code is not trying to take/ compete with RL head on like Union and AFL.

 

[LeagueXIII]

? Did not state every suburb! The key idea is "Established clubs". People just dont gravitate to a rep team brand the way you are proposing . Not trying to insult. The idea is ludicrous if you think that stacks up against longtime recognisable, culturally significant, real world established club brands! Go figure! You just don't click a finger for that and expect the public to get on board. Clubs are a well earnt culturally significant and identifiable entity that are based on generational rivalries and support. Rep teams just don't cut the mustard in the market place in the way you propose.

It's about emotional investment, the super league hurt because people were emotionally invested in the sport and their clubs. It's not like two businesses merging to get bigger as there is no emotional investment.
Once you lose this you've got nothing and this is what has taken a massive hit over the last 20 years in rugby league.

For example is rugby league a better sport for having South Sydney and Manly in the competition? Or is the sport better off having no Rabbitohs and the Northern Eagles in?

 

[Stallion]

It's about emotional investment, the super league hurt because people were emotionally invested in the sport and their clubs. It's not like two businesses merging to get bigger as there is no emotional investment.
Once you loose this you've got nothing and this is what has taken a massive hit over the last 20 years in rugby league.

Yes. Well put! The generational and cultural aspect is massive for a code such as rugby league. Its the fabric that instills loyalty, passion and market share for clubs.

 

[LeagueXIII]

The A-League has shown that is not the case. Remember Marconi and those other small passionate Sydney clubs that had 5000 crowds. They still exist at a lower level but their fans have got on board and unified with the 2 A-league clubs. The Sydney A-League top tier clubs now get what 10-12k each game.

Soccer under the old NSL was a marginalised competition whereas the A-League has pushed the sport into the mainstream. Also the NSL comp always had clubs coming and going and changes in systems.

Rugby League in Sydney had generations of stabilised competition in 62 years we only saw the natural demise of Newtown in 1983 due to financial problems and the club and the game accepted it's fate as they could have fought the decision but chose not to and it caused minimal if any damage to the sport.

And since 1920, nearly 80 years, only University, Glebe and Newtown were lost.

 

[siv]

The A-League has shown that is not the case. Remember Marconi and those other small passionate Sydney clubs that had 5000 crowds. They still exist at a lower level but their fans have got on board and unified with the 2 A-league clubs. The Sydney A-League top tier clubs now get what 10-12k each game.

But 50-60 % of these A- League fans are actually League fans who want to watch some live sport over summer

Not just cricket

 

[M2D2]

Ill speak as someone who went to alot of a league games over the last 5 years.
I liked the A-League because im a massive soccer fan and wanted something to do when league is in off season because from October to March i have pretty much nothing on.
But after a couple of years, i got sick of the poor quality A-League is(doesnt help i was a wanderers member and their supporter group is a pack of merkins) and is actually getting worse due the inability for teams to keep their good players (im sure ill get called a Eurofag by the Aus media here who refuse to accept the lesser quality) and going to day games in the hot Australian heat when im a f**king ginger is not a good time.
A league will not improve until the quality of the game does.
The quality of the game will not improve until there is more cash inflow.
The cash inflow will not improve until more and more people go to the game.
More people will not go to the games (that arent the derbies) until the quality goes up.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

? Did not state every suburb! The key idea is "Established clubs". People just dont gravitate to a rep team brand the way you are proposing . Not trying to insult. The idea is ludicrous if you think that stacks up against longtime recognisable, culturally significant, real world established club brands! Go figure! You just don't click a finger for that and expect the public to get on board. Clubs are a well earnt culturally significant and identifiable entity that are based on generational rivalries and support. Rep teams just don't cut the mustard in the market place in the way you propose.

It didnt seem to be a problem when they destroyed the local leagues in Newcastle/Canberra/Illawarra/Brisbane/NQLD/NZ by creating these higher level teams..

I would have more respect for your opinion if you were at least consistent with it. Why are you advocating suburban Sydney clubs but not the suburban clubs from anywhere else?

People just dont gravitate to a rep team brand the way you are proposing .

Well this is clearly bullshit....

NRL clubs would suck satan's infected cock for the level of commitment NSW and QLD inspire in their fans.

Not even mentioning that the Origin teams can count their support in the millions whereas NRL clubs would be around the 5-digits, the 80k who turn up to ANZ just care more than the 10k who turn up to suburban NRL games.

People dont care about rep teams? Youre pretty clearly just making shit up as you go here...

 

[Stallion]

It didnt seem to be a problem when they destroyed the local leagues in Newcastle/Canberra/Illawarra/Brisbane/NQLD/NZ by creating these higher level teams..

I would have more respect for your opinion if you were at least consistent with it. Why are you advocating suburban Sydney clubs but not the suburban clubs from anywhere else?



Well this is clearly bullshit....

NRL clubs would suck satan's infected c**k for the level of commitment NSW and QLD inspire in their fans.

Not even mentioning that the Origin teams can count their support in the millions whereas NRL clubs would be around the 5-digits, the 80k who turn up to ANZ just care more than the 10k who turn up to suburban NRL games.

People dont care about rep teams? Youre pretty clearly just making shit up as you go here...

Still another dumb response! You do know that rep games are usually one offs or a tri series? Not something you can evolve into the competition proper! The tv exposure of the 70s onwards have made the Sydney based clubs household names . The regional cities you mention like Newcastle had great competitions but were not generally known outside of their area. Some major mistakes were witnessed in a poorly run Newcastle district competition since the inception of the Knights. For instance, the local competition should have immediately went to playing all games on Saturdays. They also played games when the Knights were playing. Some monumentally dumb scheduling and lack of thought for the District competition happened. Only now are the clubs starting to realise that they should avoid playing in opposition to Knights home games and increase the socially and player friendly Saturday game days. Mind you these common sense things are still a battle due to poor (especially inner city club)administrators in this district competition to date.

 

[LeagueXIII]

I'm pretty sure Canberra, Newcastle and Illawarra leagues voted to join the Sydney comp.

 

[M2D2]

Dont agrue with the doctor. Hes special.

 

[The Great Dane]

I'm pretty sure Canberra, Newcastle and Illawarra leagues voted to join the Sydney comp.

Nope, the Queanbeyan Blues went it alone and decided to bid for a place in the NSWRL, nobody else in Group 8 or Group 19 (the ACT and Canberra region CRL comps of the time) got a say in it.

Which brings up what he was responding to, what about the Raiders, Broncos, Steelers, Knights, Cowboys, Titans, Storm, or Warriors were established brands when they were introduced?

None of them, not one, was a pre-existing local brand before joining the NSWRL, and all of those places (except maybe Melbourne) had longstanding well known brands in their communities that could have been promoted into the NSWRL, using his logic that it's all about established brands all of the aforementioned clubs should have been rejected by the local communities and all of those clubs should have failed, obviously that isn't the case.

I don't agree with Doctor's idea of reintroducing old rep brands and stuff, it's too late for that now, but that doesn't mean that his detractors logic isn't flawed also...

 

[The Great Dane]

Honestly I don't get why people argue about this anymore, everybody is just arguing over red herrings or fear mongering at this point.

It seems to me that everybody on the old Sydney fan side is scared of their clubs being killed off, but nobody with any credibility on the other side is actually suggesting that any clubs be killed off as it'd be completely unnecessary to achieve their goals, and it'd be an unnecessary waste.

Then once that red herring goes past everybody on the old Sydney fan side fear mongers about rationalisation saying that it'll create wastelands for the sport, "look at NS", etc, which to do so you'd have to ignore all the other factors that lead to NS turning out how it did all of which aren't issues anymore, and if rationalisation is handled properly (not the half arsed rushed mess that was the end of SL) all evidence suggests the contrary, just look anywhere in pretty much any sport, South Melbourne and Fitzroy are still AFL "heartlands", St. Louis still loves it's American Football, etc, etc, etc, even in our sport there're examples of successful rationalisation and regulation (Newtown, Glebe, Annandale, Uni, hundreds more if you look in England).

So really the whole thing is a non-argument and has been since the late 70s, the weight of evidence all leads one way, the real issue is people failing to or being unwilling to accept the evidence and people in positions of power being unwilling to cede that power, not whether or not rationalisation works or if rationalisation would be beneficial to the NRL, those arguments are already settled to any rational and/or sincere person...

It's also ironic that pretty much every person that is anti-rationalisation's clubs either wouldn't exist at all without prior rationalisation of the competition or wouldn't exist in the form that they currently do without rationalisation.

 

[T-Boon]

I don't agree with Doctor's idea of reintroducing old rep brands and stuff, it's too late for that now, but that doesn't mean that his detractors logic isn't flawed also...

You should look at his idea (I think it is his idea) for the Brisbane Firsts rep team (re)introduction. In my opinion that is the best Brisbane 2 concept put forward yet. Essentially it establishes the second Brisbane team as the good guy and Broncos as the bad guy. Thats the kind of rivalry we need up there. Pitting the Qld people v the corporates.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Still another dumb response! You do know that rep games are usually one offs or a tri series? Not something you can evolve into the competition proper! The tv exposure of the 70s onwards have made the Sydney based clubs household names . The regional cities you mention like Newcastle had great competitions but were not generally known outside of their area. Some major mistakes were witnessed in a poorly run Newcastle district competition since the inception of the Knights. For instance, the local competition should have immediately went to playing all games on Saturdays. They also played games when the Knights were playing. Some monumentally dumb scheduling and lack of thought for the District competition happened. Only now are the clubs starting to realise that they should avoid playing in opposition to Knights home games and increase the socially and player friendly Saturday game days. Mind you these common sense things are still a battle due to poor (especially inner city club)administrators in this district competition to date.

So youve changed the question now...

For Sydney, it is about how each suburb cannot accept a new brand because their local team is too entrenched.

For everyone else, they can deal with implant teams because their local teams arent known outside of their local areas. What happened to RL dying because areas lost their suburban team?

I don't agree with Doctor's idea of reintroducing old rep brands and stuff, it's too late for that now, but that doesn't mean that his detractors logic isn't flawed also...

Im not saying we should do it now. Im saying its a f*ck up not to have done it in the 90s...

Or, if NRL does a big merge merge with another comp (SL or someone) and has to drop a few teams, a Sydney United will probably be necessary...

 

[Life's Good]

F*ck me. Is this d*ck measuring competition still going?
Agree to disagree and move on in the mutual view that the game is being held back under the current administration.

 

[Stallion]

So youve changed the question now...

For Sydney, it is about how each suburb cannot accept a new brand because their local team is too entrenched.

For everyone else, they can deal with implant teams because their local teams arent known outside of their local areas. What happened to RL dying because areas lost their suburban team?



Im not saying we should do it now. Im saying its a f*ck up not to have done it in the 90s...

Or, if NRL does a big merge merge with another comp (SL or someone) and has to drop a few teams, a Sydney United will probably be necessary...

You have assumed that the general public is happy with the significant mergers and ommissions as a result of the superleague "agreement". This is not so! I'm pretty sure Balmain would like to be the Balmain Tigers, Wests would like to be the Western Suburbs/Sydney Magpies, & North Sydney Bears would like to be playing in the top flight? You once again think that this set up hasn't damaged the code. These clubs had / have substantial junior local leagues and supporters in Sydney and all over Australia and you have ignored these people and the dwindling junior ranks. My word you are an ignorant piece of work! Especially in a code that was number one in a big way(not a little way) in Sydney for many decades. You're the sort of guy that dismisses the 8 junior clubs where their used to be 20 junior clubs in the North Sydney area as the way things are.
The television marketability of the Sydney club competition from the 1970s onwards was admired and respected by the general public . The local leagues you speak of did not have this wide reaching and popular coverage. That's why these areas outside of Sydney wanted in! It wasn't a finger flick! It was an admiration of the Sydney competition that was being beamed to countless homes outside of Sydney.
Your despicable and ignorant regard for the code of rugby league is very consistent. And your 'rep" idea would not have worked when the carving up of these established, well known and wonderful clubs occured as a superleague "compromise"(smiling assassin handshake)in the late 1990s. Shame on you.

 

[T-Boon]

I can tell you that B-League does not recognise Todd Greenberg's authority. We haven't been returning his calls for months. Not since he sent in a reference for Scott Seward to take over as B-League CEO.

 

[siv]

Nope, the Queanbeyan Blues went it alone and decided to bid for a place in the NSWRL, nobody else in Group 8 or Group 19 (the ACT and Canberra region CRL comps of the time) got a say in it.

Which brings up what he was responding to, what about the Raiders, Broncos, Steelers, Knights, Cowboys, Titans, Storm, or Warriors were established brands when they were introduced?

None of them, not one, was a pre-existing local brand before joining the NSWRL, and all of those places (except maybe Melbourne) had longstanding well known brands in their communities that could have been promoted into the NSWRL, using his logic that it's all about established brands all of the aforementioned clubs should have been rejected by the local communities and all of those clubs should have failed, obviously that isn't the case.

I don't agree with Doctor's idea of reintroducing old rep brands and stuff, it's too late for that now, but that doesn't mean that his detractors logic isn't flawed also...

But

Newcastle Illawarra Auckland Nth Qld were all established regional representative teams. And they adopted colours from those rep teams

Crushers Mariners were new clubs in established markets

Gold Coast-Tweed had identity crisis was it a Qld Gold Coast regional team or a Far North Coast NSW regional team

Melbourne Perth Adelaide were teams in emerging markets

 

[Stallion]

But

Newcastle Illawarra Auckland Nth Qld were all established regional representative teams. And they adopted colours from those rep teams

Crushers Mariners were new clubs in established markets

Gold Coast-Tweed had identity crisis was it a Qld Gold Coast regional team or a Far North Coast NSW regional team

Melbourne Perth Adelaide were teams in emerging markets

Newcastle area representative colours are green and brown. The Knights colours were chosen from the traditional English knights colours. Their were also many Newcastle institutions like Newcastle Boys High that used the blue and red colours. So their was a flow on from that I'd imagine.
The key point to what you were responding is the television notoriety surrounding the Sydney rugby league. It was THE competition that everyone knew and watched. This was not the case for the other areas that joined as a result of the highly regarded Sydney club competition profile.