Todd Greenberg has pretty much said one Sydney team will be relocated.

[MugaB]

I’d take 25k at bankwest over 7k at some suburban amateur ground. You might have missed it but avg crowd at Optus is 50k lol. Shame nrl isnt as popular in Sydney, anz wouldn’t look so bad.

Well if NRL had a team to fill optus stadium, you'd have a point.
ANZ is an Isore, and lacks atmosphere,
Bankwest is best of both local and stadia, it doesn't make you feel so far away from the field, like ANZ does.
As for Amateur grounds, the game had grown from there, not every game needs to play in large stadiums, most of the roosters, bulldogs and souths games last year looked empty, due to the stadiums of ALLIANZ and ANZ being far too large for the games held there, yes it packs out when theres a rival team, but when its gold coast, or on a thursday night, good luck filling it.
Some games are better off at suburban grounds
As for Perth Pirates, hopefully if they are to be admitted, the one team town will hopefully pack too, as much as Suncorp does for the Broncs.
Sydney crowds are divided by loyalty to only their clubs, they won't go and watch two teams they aren't a fan of. Im a panther fan, i wouldn't go watch parra vs dogs for example, and with sydney split up in 8-9 clubs its mainly the reason, if brisbane had 9 clubs i'm sure crowds would be similar.
perth has 2 AFL teams, the crowds are either going to go to see west coast or freo or both.
Melbourne AFL on the other hand is an anomaly, the crowds there go to any game, (so im told by my cousin who lives there) they're more happy to see live games aswell as their loyalty, something that sydney needs to learn to do regarding NRL

 

[Perth Red]

An NRL team wont play at Optus stadium, its an oval and designed for AFL and big bash where they get big crowds lol

No one is suggesting it should be sht suburban park or ANZ, both suck. The last thing the NRL would want to do is trade 9k at Brookvale Oval for 9k at North Sydney Oval. The idea is to grow the fanbase and attendances!

The NRL should have campaigned for Alllianz to be 35k and no NRL club should be playing at ANZ now Bankwest stadium is open.

Any expansion clubs should be starting from a target base of 15k plus avg crowds and aiming upwards from there. NRL isnt as popular as AFL so no point comparing the two, better to compare internally. Our avg has been 15k for years, new clubs need to be aiming to boost that avg.

Agreed, Sydney has too many teams to expect all 9 clubs to be able to draw decent crowds. Such is the over saturated market there.

 

[Stallion]

An NRL team wont play at Optus stadium, its an oval and designed for AFL and big bash where they get big crowds lol

No one is suggesting it should be sht suburban park or ANZ, both suck. The last thing the NRL would want to do is trade 9k at Brookvale Oval for 9k at North Sydney Oval. The idea is to grow the fanbase and attendances!

The NRL should have campaigned for Alllianz to be 35k and no NRL club should be playing at ANZ now Bankwest stadium is open.

Any expansion clubs should be starting from a target base of 15k plus avg crowds and aiming upwards from there. NRL isnt as popular as AFL so no point comparing the two, better to compare internally. Our avg has been 15k for years, new clubs need to be aiming to boost that avg.

Agreed, Sydney has too many teams to expect all 9 clubs to be able to draw decent crowds. Such is the over saturated market there.

Dissagree . Sydney is not oversaturated with NRL clubs. The population of Sydney and surrounding cIties of Gosford and Wollongong demands and their regions demands ten teams rather than the diluted and destabilizing reduction and merging of widely known and generational supported top flight clubs. We now see northern Sydney warming to big local rugby union crowds instead of the past presence and influence of established rugby league rivalries like the Bears and Manly. So the destructionist angle ignores established cultural support along with its widespread notoriety and prefers the whiteanting of a thoroughly successful and world renowned top flight club existence that is vital in these highly populated regions of NSW. Mathematics, existing supporter bases, cultural significance via longevity and familiarity are ignored in the "oversaturated market term " consistently used by people not acknowledging reality and common sense. It's dissapointing the whiteanting talk of this envied competition continues. Genuine growth with additional clubs is welcomed! Not losing the farm!

 

[flippikat]

No one is suggesting it should be sht suburban park or ANZ, both suck. The last thing the NRL would want to do is trade 9k at Brookvale Oval for 9k at North Sydney Oval. The idea is to grow the fanbase and attendances!

Agreed, Sydney has too many teams to expect all 9 clubs to be able to draw decent crowds. Such is the over saturated market there.

Good points..

I honestly can't see where the money will come from to bring Brookvale closer to Bankwest standard (or likewise upgrading North Sydney Oval, or a brand new stadium on a new north-of-bridge site), so that's the decision - stay at a lower-capacity venue that gives a lesser game-day experience than most of the other Sydney clubs, or take the leap of faith that fans will travel to a better venue. Ball is in Manly's court.

On the oversaturation point, I hear ya. The current number is unsustainable. However in some quarters that argument is just falling in deaf ears

Anyway, I strongly suspect if a Sydney club actually does hit the wall, the NRL will just bail them out with few - if any - strings attached. Despite the tough talk we've heard recently.

(Cue the predictable reactionary 'Every suburb needs a top-tier club by right' responses to your mere mention of oversaturation in 3.. 2.. 1..)

 

[MugaB]

Dissagree . Sydney is not oversaturated with NRL clubs. The population of Sydney and surrounding cIties of Gosford and Wollongong demands and their regions demands ten teams rather than the diluted and destabilizing reduction and merging of widely known and generational supported top flight clubs. We now see northern Sydney warming to big local rugby union crowds instead of the past presence and influence of established rugby league rivalries like the Bears and Manly. So the destructionist angle ignores established cultural support along with its widespread notoriety and prefers the whiteanting of a thoroughly successful and world renowned top flight club existence that is vital in these highly populated regions of NSW. Mathematics, existing supporter bases, cultural significance via longevity and familiarity are ignored in the "oversaturated market term " consistently used by people not acknowledging reality and common sense. It's dissapointing the whiteanting talk of this envied competition continues. Genuine growth with additional clubs is welcomed! Not losing the farm!

Bears and Manly, will it ever be a new conversation that doesn't involve bears or manly, or central coast needing a team?
Here's the rundown, its basic sydney and its greater regions can sustain 7 top flight NRL teams, aswell as expansions. We cannot get to 18-20 teams but still have 9 based in Sydney. Teams surrounding sydney
Gosford, Penrith, Wollongong, then have Wests & Parra, and then 2 teams inner city.
Cronulla? Canterbury? Easts? Souths?
Sydney need 2 less teams, brisbane needs 2 more teams, thats the gist
I cannot see a long term NRL without spreading the clubs outward better
A central coast based club would work
Provided manly drop to NSW cup
and the Dragons base more games in the gong. Canterbury/Souths/Easts/Cronulla bottle neck needs to be addressed with atleast one of them also in NSW cup.
Then it should be all ok, and somewhat sustainable, mergers won't work anymore
But a Roosters, SeaEagles one would be great, so that way we can just hate on one team, instead of two, but who am i kidding, most of sydney fans hate each others clubs

 

[Stallion]

Bears and Manly, will it ever be a new conversation that doesn't involve bears or manly, or central coast needing a team?
Here's the rundown, its basic sydney and its greater regions can sustain 7 top flight NRL teams, aswell as expansions. We cannot get to 18-20 teams but still have 9 based in Sydney. Teams surrounding sydney
Gosford, Penrith, Wollongong, then have Wests & Parra, and then 2 teams inner city.
Cronulla? Canterbury? Easts? Souths?
Sydney need 2 less teams, brisbane needs 2 more teams, thats the gist
I cannot see a long term NRL without spreading the clubs outward better
A central coast based club would work
Provided manly drop to NSW cup
and the Dragons base more games in the gong. Canterbury/Souths/Easts/Cronulla bottle neck needs to be addressed with atleast one of them also in NSW cup.
Then it should be all ok, and somewhat sustainable, mergers won't work anymore
But a Roosters, SeaEagles one would be great, so that way we can just hate on one team, instead of two, but who am i kidding, most of sydney fans hate each others clubs

Not practical or considerate of existing club based supporter advantages such as familiarity, longevity; generational recognition and support plus widespread Australia wide recognition . So we still have people seeking to whiteant established rugby league clubs with existing supporters bases within their area and Australia wide. Nonsensical stuff but it's part of the struggle for a code and competition that deserves genuine growth without whiteanting its foundation. (which is the end result of the "oversaturated market " bullshit )

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Dissagree . Sydney is not oversaturated with NRL clubs. The population of Sydney and surrounding cIties of Gosford and Wollongong demands and their regions demands ten teams rather than the diluted and destabilizing reduction and merging of widely known and generational supported top flight clubs. We now see northern Sydney warming to big local rugby union crowds instead of the past presence and influence of established rugby league rivalries like the Bears and Manly. So the destructionist angle ignores established cultural support along with its widespread notoriety and prefers the whiteanting of a thoroughly successful and world renowned top flight club existence that is vital in these highly populated regions of NSW. Mathematics, existing supporter bases, cultural significance via longevity and familiarity are ignored in the "oversaturated market term " consistently used by people not acknowledging reality and common sense. It's dissapointing the whiteanting talk of this envied competition continues. Genuine growth with additional clubs is welcomed! Not losing the farm!

We've already been through all of this in the past too. If Shute Shield can pull 10k crowds in the third teir of RU, then Norths and Manly can do it in the second teir of RL. It just needs a bit of effort put into the second teir to make it happen. We don't need NRL clubs to fend off Shute Shield clubs in an area that has always been a stronghold heartland for RU.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Not practical or considerate of existing club based supporter advantages such as familiarity, longevity; generational recognition and support plus widespread Australia wide recognition . So we still have people seeking to whiteant established rugby league clubs with existing supporters bases within their area and Australia wide. Nonsensical stuff but it's part of the struggle for a code and competition that deserves genuine growth without whiteanting its foundation. (which is the end result of the "oversaturated market " bullshit )

The clubs with the most recognition in the comp are Brisbane, Melbourne, Warriors, Souths, Eels, Dogs and Dragons. Stop with the BS that all Sydney clubs are all of equal size and importance to the league moving forward - they are just not. Attendances, memberships and TV ratings will tell you that. The biggest and best drawing clubs in the game these days come from all over the place.

 

[Timbo]

Dissagree . Sydney is not oversaturated with NRL clubs. The population of Sydney and surrounding cIties of Gosford and Wollongong demands and their regions demands ten teams rather than the diluted and destabilizing reduction and merging of widely known and generational supported top flight clubs. We now see northern Sydney warming to big local rugby union crowds instead of the past presence and influence of established rugby league rivalries like the Bears and Manly. So the destructionist angle ignores established cultural support along with its widespread notoriety and prefers the whiteanting of a thoroughly successful and world renowned top flight club existence that is vital in these highly populated regions of NSW. Mathematics, existing supporter bases, cultural significance via longevity and familiarity are ignored in the "oversaturated market term " consistently used by people not acknowledging reality and common sense. It's dissapointing the whiteanting talk of this envied competition continues. Genuine growth with additional clubs is welcomed! Not losing the farm!

A lot of people are dancing on the apparent grave of union with the terrible crowds that Super Rugby have been getting, but grassroots rugby in Sydney is as strong as ever.

I went to a Randwick game on a bucks party a few weeks ago - Coogee oval may only hold ~7k, but it was standing room only half an hour before kickoff and the bars sold out of beer by halftime.

 

[Stallion]

A lot of people are dancing on the apparent grave of union with the terrible crowds that Super Rugby have been getting, but grassroots rugby in Sydney is as strong as ever.

I went to a Randwick game on a bucks party a few weeks ago - Coogee oval may only hold ~7k, but it was standing room only half an hour before kickoff and the bars sold out of beer by halftime.

Thanks for your timely insight. A case in point that is being ignored by some on this site! Instead the
informants are likely to be lambasted for the reality being shown. It's an astounding example of ignorance.

 

[Timbo]

Thanks for your timely insight. A case in point that is being ignored by some on this site! Instead the
informants are likely to be lambasted for the reality being shown. It's an astounding example of ignorance.

Don't get me wrong, union is a basketcase. They have absolutely no idea how to present their product to their target audience.

In many ways, they're only just getting back to where they were in the mid-90s before the emergence of Super Rugby. And the Wallabies are still an absolute shamozzle.

It's just a bit of a fallacy to say it's on it's last legs.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Thanks for your timely insight. A case in point that is being ignored by some on this site! Instead the
informants are likely to be lambasted for the reality being shown. It's an astounding example of ignorance.

Manly got 7k last weekend too - what's you point?

 

[Stallion]

Manly got 7k last weekend too - what's you point?

Still not understanding what is going on! ? The merging and dilution of top flight rugby league clubs in Sydney is weakening the relevance of this most envied code in its foundation heartland. Other lesser codes are capitalizing on the whiteanting of the top flight rugby league clubs of Sydney. The 7000 at Manly . An example of the poor regard and standing for rugby league in the ever weakening northern Sydney area. Local union crowds are reaping the benefit of top flight rugby league "running away" from its established and culturally significant bases. Go figure as local union crowds increase and top flight rugby league is reduced in relevance. The casual sports fan that used to opt for the top flight rugby league match now goes to the more accessible and convenient (but less attractive on field) local union game. The local union crowds of Sydney and its participation is very healthy and increasing whilst rugby league participation (especially at teenage years) is reducing or low. Less top flight rugby league in the Sydney region leads to less relevance and greater opportunity for lesser rival codes. That's what's happening!

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Still not understanding what is going on! ? The merging and dilution of top flight rugby league clubs in Sydney is weakening the relevance of this most envied code in its foundation heartland. Other lesser codes are capitalizing on the whiteanting of the top flight rugby league clubs of Sydney. The 7000 at Manly . An example of the poor regard and standing for rugby league in the ever weakening northern Sydney area. Local union crowds are reaping the benefit of top flight rugby league "running away" from its establishment and culturally significant bases. Go figure as local union crowds increase and top flight rugby league is reduced in relevance. The casual sports fan that used to opt for the top flight rugby league match now goes to the more accessible and convenient (but less attractive on field) local union game. The local union crowds of Sydney and its participation is very healthy and increasing whilst rugby league participation (especially at teenage years) is reducing or low. Less top flight rugby league in the Sydney region leads to less relevance and greater opportunity for lesser rival codes. That's what's happening!

So 7k in union (best crowd that club can get) = healthy and 7k in league (one of the worst crowds Manly get) = sport is dying - lol

Let's put it this way. Let's look at Australia as a whole (and not one suburb in Sydney); would you happily swap the positions that RU and RL are in in this country? I know I wouldn't. They can have their 7k at a suburban ground. I'll take the most watched TV sport in the country and highest attended sport outside of the AFL thanks.

 

[Stallion]

So 7k in union (best crowd that club can get) = healthy and 7k in league (one of the worst crowds Manly get) = sport is dying - lol

Let's put it this way. Let's look at Australia as a whole (and not one suburb in Sydney); would you happily swap the positions that RU and RL are in in this country? I know I wouldn't. They can have their 7k at a suburban ground. I'll take the most watched TV sport in the country and highest attended sport outside of the AFL thanks.

You are still delusional and extremely ignorant! If you think a top flight club achieving 7000 is good, you are truelly warmed to underwhelming aims. This is a proud code that is far superior to its rival codes however the rival codes are gaining traction due to the shameful defeatist and whiteanting that you so vehemently support. IT'S HAPPENING AND YOU STILL DON'T SEE IT!! We are talking about areas like Coogee and Warringah hosting near sellout crowds for the locals and you think that's not an issue for the once 'go to' code of rugby league in Sydney?Astonishingly ignorant!

 

[titoelcolombiano]

You are still delusional and extremely ignorant! If you think a top flight club achieving 7000 is good, you are truelly warmed to underwhelming aims. This is a proud code that is far superior to its rival codes however the rival codes are gaining traction due to the shameful defeatist and whiteanting that you so vehemently support. IT'S HAPPENING AND YOU STILL DON'T SEE IT!! We are talking about areas like Coogee and Warringah hosting near sellout crowds for the locals and you think that's not an issue for the once 'go to' code of rugby league in Sydney?Astonishingly ignorant!

I think 7k is appauling. The real question is why do you think it is any better in Union?

And no, Shute Shield is no issue for RL at all - lol get back to me when they have an average league crowd of 15k, is the best rated league on TV in Australia, has franchises in QLD, Victoria, New Zealand and Canberra and has just about all of their clubs have membership bases as large as the NRL clubs do.

 

[Stallion]

I think 7k is appauling. The real question is why do you think it is any better in Union?

And no, Shute Shield is no issue for RL at all - lol get back to me when they have an average league crowd of 15k, is the best rated league on TV in Australia, has franchises in QLD, Victoria, New Zealand and Canberra and has just about all of their clubs have membership bases as large as the NRL clubs do.

You just don't get it! Had North Sydney Bears and Manly Warringah still both played in the top flight ,local interest and support would have mostly still been about these two well established and generationally respected clubs. With the exiting of the Bears other codes are gaining much more relevance nowadays.(No top flight RL local derbies) The whiteanting continues! Fans do not gravitate to lower grade support when historically use to the top grade. Union has jumped onto the local cultural appeal whilst rugby league loses out. Basically you're ignoring an abandonment of the code in this region and at the same time giving union relevance to northern Sydney and areas within the Eastern suburbs of Sydney as well. Remembering that the Sydney rugby-league gained it's popularity from the cultural respect and admiration of others locally and outside of Sydney. But some can't fathom this sort of stuff. Too much pretending all is good! Shame.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

You just don't get it! Had North Sydney Bears and Manly Warringah still both played in the top flight ,local interest and support would have mostly still been about these two well established and generationally respected clubs. With the exiting of the Bears other codes are gaining much more relevance nowadays.(No top flight RL local derbies) The whiteanting continues! Fans do not gravitate to lower grade support when historically use to the top grade. Union has jumped onto the local cultural appeal whilst rugby league loses out. Basically you're ignoring an abandonment of the code in this region and at the same time giving union relevance to northern Sydney and areas within the Eastern suburbs of Sydney as well. Remembering that the Sydney rugby-league gained it's popularity from the cultural respect and admiration of others locally and outside of Sydney. But some can't fathom this sort of stuff. Too much pretending all is good! Shame.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sp...l/news-story/2307a41f4bfef080702e961c3449314b

Yeah - the Shute Shield is such a threat that the broke ARU had to bail them out

Get back to me when they have a $2 billion TV deal - lol

 

[Stallion]

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sp...l/news-story/2307a41f4bfef080702e961c3449314b

Yeah - the Shute Shield is such a threat that the broke ARU had to bail them out

Get back to me when they have a $2 billion TV deal - lol

Ignorant and reckless response. These local Sydney union clubs are harnessing a fan base courtesy of the dilution of the Sydney NRL clubs. If you don't see that as an issue for the code going forward you have confirmed my 'delusional' assessment of you.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Ignorant and reckless response. These local Sydney union clubs are harnessing a fan base courtesy of the dilution of the Sydney NRL clubs. If you don't see that as an issue for the code going forward you have confirmed my 'delusional' assessment of you.

Provides actual sources - Stallion claims ignorance and reckless - lol

How are the Shute Shield clubs going outside of the tiny niche of north and inner Sydney? Penrith were in fact cut and the others are going pretty piss poor is the answer.

Manly TV ratings > entire Shute Shield TV Ratings
Manly aggregate and average attendances > entire Shute Shield aggregate and average attendances
Manly memberships > Shute Shield club memberships
Manly revenue > Shute Shield club revenue

Shute Shield is such a non-threat to RL, it can't even outperform one of our lower performing clubs.

Back to your cave RU troll.