Tonga v Samoa teams for Oct 7

[ParraEelsNRL]

26 out of their squad of 30 were Japanese. All of the rest played in the Japanese domestic competition, and qualified by residency to play for Japan. .

BS, i made sure i switched on the Japan game for that reason alone, it was about 6 players max who looked Japanese to me.

Once i seen how many Japs were not in the team i turned it over, everytime ive seen the Jap side play, they've had more kiwis than japanese, my eyes do not deceive me.

I do not want to have an argument. But league needs to ensure that there are simple, transparent, and consistent rules for national teams. It seems obvious that the first requirement for a national team is that there is a viable domestic competition in that country. The idea of creating a national team just to compete in internationals is something that people will laugh at, fairly in my opinion.

If RL wants to make IRL teams to take home to their homeland, who are you or any other Rugga bugga to say we shouldn't?

It's worked, i think it's a great idea.

About the only decent thinking anyone involved in RL has ever done, Lebanon and the West Indies are playing in their own comp now, so it shows that it does work.

Malta is about to play in Malta, they will have a comp up n running by next year if the locals like it, what more do ppl want?

For RL to get into places like Lebanon is massive, look at the trouble in that part of the world, yet all you rah rahs want to do is put sh*te on Rl because it does things differently, well how about applauding them for thinking outside the square and getting the game played by what ever means possible?

We all know the probs RL has has from certain other sporting bodies, how anyone can look past that and continue to support such a code when they know the truth is beyond me, it's like you ppl are saying Nazi Germany was bad, but still support it.

Q for you, Do you think with the way the RFU is going about with regards to the clubs in England with playing for the national team and paying money, that some of the clubs will jump ship and try to join the SL?

Quins 1 giant Rugby club
Leeds 1 giant Rugby club
?
?
?
?
?
?

Dieing game init

 

[Woods99]

Never said the US was completely expats read what I said mate.
Try one of the USA halves for starters,anyway I am not going to get into a TFC with you.All i am saying is that when union journos talk about a league team completely made up of expats,when it is not such as Russia ,its damn lies,if you cant see that PW then I cant help you. They are talking BS and you agree with them then ?

Taipan,

I think it is a matter of degree, isn't? There were certainly some suspect selections in the 2003 RWC. For example, Jeff Reid, who played for Eastwood locally, was selected for Canada on the grandparent rule. Canada also approached Matt Dunning, who still hadn't played for Australia at that stage. Matt's father is a Canadian who also played for Eastwood.

Japan can be criticised IMHO also. Even though they had 26 Japanese in their 2003 squad, the four expatriates who qualified by residency were just mercenaries. They are not genuine immigrants, and will never become Japanese citizens.

On the other hand, at least Japan and Canada have strong domestic competitions, and the bulk of their teams are both qualified by birth, and play in the domestic competitions.

Compare this with Ireland at the last RLWC. No domestic competition, and a lot of "invited" players, like Luke Ricketson. This sort of thing is definitely wrong, in terms of the credibility of any international sport.

 

[Kingbunny]

Taipan,

I think it is a matter of degree, isn't? There were certainly some suspect selections in the 2003 RWC. For example, Jeff Reid, who played for Eastwood locally, was selected for Canada on the grandparent rule. Canada also approached Matt Dunning, who still hadn't played for Australia at that stage. Matt's father is a Canadian who also played for Eastwood.

Japan can be criticised IMHO also. Even though they had 26 Japanese in their 2003 squad, the four expatriates who qualified by residency were just mercenaries. They are not genuine immigrants, and will never become Japanese citizens.

On the other hand, at least Japan and Canada have strong domestic competitions, and the bulk of their teams are both qualified by birth, and play in the domestic competitions.

Compare this with Ireland at the last RLWC. No domestic competition, and a lot of "invited" players, like Luke Ricketson. This sort of thing is definitely wrong, in terms of the credibility of any international sport.

Shane Howarth playing for Wales ?

 

[Woods99]

Shane Howarth playing for Wales ?

Brent Cockbain and Nathan Hines playing for Scotland.

On the other hand, we don't mind Tatiana Gregoriova and Kostya Tsuyu (sp?) representing Australia, do we?

Probably most major sports can be criticised to some extent. But, it would be just as wrong to say that only people born in a country can represent that country, IMHO.

Certainly for countries like Australia (and New Zealand) with strong immigration programs there will always be a lot of genuine immigrants who deserve the chance to represent their new country of allegiance.

 

[hitman51]

Screeny , this is not an insult mate . I know you would like to think that the Island are rugby league mad or support their national team at any sport .

This is not the case . People in Samoa don't know or know little about league and they defently don't know much about the players who played in the NRL .

There is no league on local newspapers , radios and defently no Fox TV over there .

You just have to see my point to understand . If the Samoan population in Auckland (double that of Samoa) and Sydney ( not sure of the Samoan population in Sydney ) only turn up in their hundreds to support Samoa rugby league when playing .
Even with all the NRL , radio broadcasts , Fox TV , FTA TV , newspapers , internet and players profile etc .

What are the chance of people in Samoa turning up in their thousands to watch something they have never heard of or seeing and let alone players never heard of ?

Sole samoa get all the warriors games shown over there and the kiwi league tests. They maybe delayed coverage but they show those games because of the high number of samoans invloved in those teams. They started showing the games there bout 3 years ago but only warriors an kiwis games.

 

[Polynesian Warrior]

Malo Uso ! They did show the Warriors game three years ago but when Mark Puckey pass away , the whole thing came tumbling down .
There's an efford now by Hemi and the boys to get it up again , and they are doing a good job right now .





quote - ParraEelsNRL

BS, i made sure i switched on the Japan game for that reason alone, it was about 6 players max who looked Japanese to me.

Once i seen how many Japs were not in the team i turned it over, everytime ive seen the Jap side play, they've had more kiwis than japanese, my eyes do not deceive me.



Here are that 6 players max team who look Japanese to you . Looks like your eyes are like your mouth and they are very deceiving .
There are only about three non Japanese players who took the field in every game . :roll:

Here's another rugby lesson . Go and reseach and maybe you might find how long have the RFU and the clubs been fighting for .



Against Scotland

Tsutomu Matsuda, Daisuke Ohata, Reuben Parkinson, Yukio Motoki, Hirotoki Onozawa, Keiji Hirose, Takashi Tsuji, Takeomi Ito, Takuro Miuchi (c), Naoya Okubo, Adam Parker, Hajime Kiso, Masahiko Toyoyama, Masao Amino, Shin Hasegawa. Reserves: Masahito Yamamoto, Masaaki Sakata, Hiroyuki Tanuma, Yasunori Watanabe, Yuji Sonoda, Andrew Miller, Toru Kurihara.


Against France

Toru Kurihara, Daisuke Ohata, George Konia, Hideki Namba, Hirotoki Onozawa, Andrew Miller, Yuji Sonoda, Takeomi Ito, Takuro Miuchi (captain), Naoya Okubo, Adam Parker, Hiroyuki Tanuma, Ryo Yamamura, Masaaki Sakata, Shin Hasegawa. Reserves: Masahito Yamamoto, Masao Amino, Koichi Kubo, Ryota Asano, Takashi Tsuji, Yukio Motoki, Takashi Yoshida.


Against Fiji

Tsutomu Matsuda, Daisuke Ohata, Reuben Parkinson, Yukio Motoki, Hirotoki Onozawa, Andrew Miller, Takashi Tsuji, Takeomi Ito Takuro Miuchi (captain), Naoya Okubo), Adam Parker, Hajime Kiso, Masahiko Toyoyama, Masaaki Sakata, Masahito Yamamoto. Reserves: Shin Hasegawa, Masao Amino, Koichi Kubo, Ryota Asano, Yuji Sonoda, George Konia, Toru Kurihara.

Against USA
Tsutomu Matsuda, Daisuke Ohata, George Konia, Yukio Motoki, Toru Kurihara, Andrew Miller, Yuji Sonoda, Takeome Ito, Takuro Miuchi (captain), Naoya Okubo, Adam Parker, Hajime Kiso, Masahiko Toyoyama, Masao Amino, Shin Hasegawa. Reserves: Masahito Yamamoto, Masaaki Sakata, Koichi Kubo, Yuya Saito, Takashi Tsuji, Hideki Namba, Hirotoki Onozawa.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

dikkhead

 

[Woods99]

dikkhead

In my opinion, a dickhead is somebody who refuses to believe facts.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

In my opinion, a dickhead is somebody who refuses to believe facts.

Pissoff back to planet union and continue your lies.

How you haven't been removed from here is something i'll never know.

Do you ever talk about RL without your Rah rah crap?

Go on, tell us all about the bad Leaguies dragging the kids out of school and making them play Pro RL, then tell us how you support the CC Bears.

Your not that dickhead Ray Hadley are you?
mmmmmmmmm

 

[Lantana]

Back to the thread, can anybody on here tell me what number Tevita Metuisela wore in this match for Tonga? I think he started but that doesn't really help.

 

[taipan]

Taipan,

I think it is a matter of degree, isn't? There were certainly some suspect selections in the 2003 RWC. For example, Jeff Reid, who played for Eastwood locally, was selected for Canada on the grandparent rule. Canada also approached Matt Dunning, who still hadn't played for Australia at that stage. Matt's father is a Canadian who also played for Eastwood.

Japan can be criticised IMHO also. Even though they had 26 Japanese in their 2003 squad, the four expatriates who qualified by residency were just mercenaries. They are not genuine immigrants, and will never become Japanese citizens.

On the other hand, at least Japan and Canada have strong domestic competitions, and the bulk of their teams are both qualified by birth, and play in the domestic competitions.

Compare this with Ireland at the last RLWC. No domestic competition, and a lot of "invited" players, like Luke Ricketson. This sort of thing is definitely wrong, in terms of the credibility of any international sport.

Ireland now have a growing club rugby league competition,so that problem is fixed,as does Wales as does Scotland oh as does Lebanon.
Exactly my point if Japan has a strong rugby union competition why on earth do they need mercenaries .Canada a strong union comp ???,a union comp but strong is hardly the correct word they have been thrashed on so many occasions.Gordon Bray didnt make a big deal about these mercenaries but the likes of Carlton did with the RLWC.Typical media balance not.
Anycase I dont want to go into the rah rah thing its not my game,the next RLWC will at least be less inclined to use expats or mercenaries but the homegrown by birth instead.
It will give the Pacific islanders another opportunity to participate in a rugby league world cup,and that IMO is a damn good thing.

 

[girvie]

Back to the thread, can anybody on here tell me what number Tevita Metuisela wore in this match for Tonga? I think he started but that doesn't really help.

He probably wore 12 or maybe 11. Why do you want to know?

 

[Woods99]

Ireland now have a growing club rugby league competition,so that problem is fixed,as does Wales as does Scotland oh as does Lebanon.

Well, the use of the word "growing" is appropriate. Still a lot of growing to do until league is actually anything more than a minor curiosity in Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Is it really true that an international between Wales and Scotland drew just over 1,000 spectators? If there are domestic competitions in both countries, surely there are more than 1,000 players. Is nobody else interested?

Exactly my point if Japan has a strong rugby union competition why on earth do they need mercenaries?

Australian players went to the UK to play league there in the fifties and sixties, because there was more money there. That is what mercenaries do. There is a lot of money in Japan for rugby union. It is a professional game now; professionals tend to go where they can earn most money. It has little to do with whether the domestic competition is strong or not. In fact, I suppose it might be true that the stronger the domestic competition, the more financially attractive it is for players to want to come to play in it.

And players travel around to play for a variety of reasons. As there is in Sydney grade cricket, there are always a few Poms playing club rugby to get some experience. Clive Woodward, the former English and British and Irish Lions coach, played a couple of seasons for Manly during the eighties.

.Canada a strong union comp ???,a union comp but strong is hardly the correct word they have been thrashed on so many occasions.Gordon Bray didnt make a big deal about these mercenaries but the likes of Carlton did with the RLWC.Typical media balance not.

A country can have a genuine domestic competition without necessarily being a strong international presence. Canada have beaten Australia in the IRB Sevens tournament, and their national side was pretty strong during the eighties.

Anycase I dont want to go into the rah rah thing its not my game,the next RLWC will at least be less inclined to use expats or mercenaries but the homegrown by birth instead.
It will give the Pacific islanders another opportunity to participate in a rugby league world cup,and that IMO is a damn good thing.

\

Well, I have just put my opinions forward, for what they are worth.

 

[Woods99]

Pissoff back to planet union and continue your lies.

How you haven't been removed from here is something i'll never know.

Do you ever talk about RL without your Rah rah crap?

Go on, tell us all about the bad Leaguies dragging the kids out of school and making them play Pro RL, then tell us how you support the CC Bears.

Your not that dickhead Ray Hadley are you?
mmmmmmmmm

No.

 

[taipan]

Woods99 Nice try I am glad you threw the crowd thing up in Wales.The 1,000 plus crowd in a comp that started a couple of years ago for rugby league,makes the less than a few hundred union get for their club comps in Oz in a game established for over 100 years look pathetic IMO.And the 17,000 whatever figure the NSWRU G/F got not that brilliant .You are hardly in a position to rubbish Welsh league crowds in their formative years.In fact in some of the Welsh league club games crowds club union in Oz would like.
Apart from the 8 Welsh rugby league clubs,"the sport now boast secondary school teams,with 3,000 children having experienced the game in the past year>Bridgend Blue Bulls won the Welsh conference this summer and Celtic Crusaders (started by a wealthy disgruntled union man) will be entering NL2 next year,and Bridgend Schools won the year 7 England/Wales comp at the Millenium stadium,Rugby league has never been better positioned in Wales" from Rugby league world edition October 2005.
For each of the clubs junior structures in place for all age groups.In 2004 over 15,000 tickets were purchase in Wales for the rugby league Challenge cup final at Cardiff,so much for that dumbo comment there is a lack of interest in Wales.
Mercenaries are mercenaries who cares,both codes are pro ,just tell your union mates that bagging league for having overseas players happens in union or are they blind.The embarrassing part for over 100 years rugby union officials and fans derided league players for daring to earn money to play(they were the pits).Yet all Rupert and Kerry had to do was flash tthe folding stuff and the union hypocrites came scurrying out of their rucks and mauls to grab a slice of the action.
And saying that Canada won a union 7s tounament-mickey mouse stuff mate.
As the topic is about Tonga and Samoa i want the bulk of the players from certainly the Tongan domestic comp and as many as possible from Samoa.If they are all Sydney based it would be embarrassing IMO

 

[Woods99]

Taipan,

I am not "rubbishing" anybody. I have admitted faults and hypocrisies in rugby union, if you look back over this thread.

You used the term "growing". I would simply repeat the point I made which is that however strong a domestic competition is, if only just over 1,000 attend an international match, then the code has an awful lot of growing to do. So we agree on your use of the word.

The Sydney club rugby grand final only drew 9,400 this season, down from about 12,000 the year before, and 15,000 in 2003. Super 12 attendances in Sydney went through the roof. So there is obviously a demand for a national club competition at a level closer to Super 14.

As for professionalism in rugby union, the simple fact is that the governing body of the game was resolute in wanting the game to remain amateur. Of course there was some hypocrisy on the amateur issue, it is well known that rugby union in France was openly professional for many years, which in my opinion is the main reason that league struggled to make its mark.

In most of the major rugby union playing countries there were benefits either in cash or in kind in being a good player. Even in New Zealand, although New Zealanders will disagree, there was a benefit in being an All Black, or an ex-All Black.

Australia was about the only major country where rugby union was genuinely amateur. There was no money to pay players, and no rich backers interested in under-the-counter benefits for players......although there were isolated incidents of players being found jobs or accomodation if they played for a particular club.

Cricket in Australia was amateur for many years, as was tennis world-wide until comparatively very recently. It was not just rugby union, old mate.

Interestingly enough, Australia is the only major country where both rugby codes are played, and it is the only major country where league is more popular. I wonder what this says about the importance of money?

 

[Polynesian Warrior]

I with you on this one Taipan . I want some local players to play for Samoa and Tonga in the RLWC .
But I would be more than happy to have Samoan and Tongans living in NZ and Sydney representing their Islands .
Than union players perdending to be league players from the local comp who would end up back in union .

 

[taipan]

Taipan,

I am not "rubbishing" anybody. I have admitted faults and hypocrisies in rugby union, if you look back over this thread.

You used the term "growing". I would simply repeat the point I made which is that however strong a domestic competition is, if only just over 1,000 attend an international match, then the code has an awful lot of growing to do. So we agree on your use of the word.

The Sydney club rugby grand final only drew 9,400 this season, down from about 12,000 the year before, and 15,000 in 2003. Super 12 attendances in Sydney went through the roof. So there is obviously a demand for a national club competition at a level closer to Super 14.

As for professionalism in rugby union, the simple fact is that the governing body of the game was resolute in wanting the game to remain amateur. Of course there was some hypocrisy on the amateur issue, it is well known that rugby union in France was openly professional for many years, which in my opinion is the main reason that league struggled to make its mark.

In most of the major rugby union playing countries there were benefits either in cash or in kind in being a good player. Even in New Zealand, although New Zealanders will disagree, there was a benefit in being an All Black, or an ex-All Black.

Australia was about the only major country where rugby union was genuinely amateur. There was no money to pay players, and no rich backers interested in under-the-counter benefits for players......although there were isolated incidents of players being found jobs or accomodation if they played for a particular club.

Cricket in Australia was amateur for many years, as was tennis world-wide until comparatively very recently. It was not just rugby union, old mate.

Interestingly enough, Australia is the only major country where both rugby codes are played, and it is the only major country where league is more popular. I wonder what this says about the importance of money?

You are rubbishing the fact that the crowd at the Wales game was just over 1,000, FFS its only just started this type of series.Might I remind you if you didnt need reminding that RL had a SL war which would have killed of any other code.the intnl game is only just now getting on its feet viz a viz the last 2 tri series tests.The fastest growing repeat growing sports in England and Wales are rugby league (according to Sport England and this is more so in London).Nowehere have I implied somehow rugby league is strong or huge internationally,however it is being developed ie growing(something which seems to get under your skin).I have no problem with 1200 attending the infant Wales intnl because a Canada v Wallabies intnl at Parramatta a few years back got wait for it 7,000.
There is a former Wallaby running around who was offered a large sum to switch to league,he remained in union,let us say units in the eastern suburbs make a better offer.Some hypocrisy in payments, mate your living under a mushroom Sth Africa,NZ,Wales,England and as I mention in some cases in Oz.
The S12 is going well to the further detriment of the club scene,and that is a worry for union not my problem.BTW league doesnt have that problem in Wales,the clubs work hand in hand .

Dont talk to me about French union players earning money as being the main reason for leagues struggle in France:lol: when their assets and monies were nicked.The league had 300,000 francs in the bank and were in fact overtaking union ,until the good old vichy govt grabbed all the code's assets,and the de Gaulle govt handed the assets to the union.When you get all your money stolen, its pretty hard to compete with a cashed up competitor.Take away all the money from the NRL and the clubs and see how league would go in oz,sheesh.Then again in your eyes this never happened in France.thats exactly what is says about the importance of money,especially when it is stolen,fell into that one mate.
Ever heard of PNG pop 4.5m national sport rugby league,do a bit of research >the have aSP semi pro comp operating next year full sponsored.Woods99 for heaven's sake.what the hell is a major country in your eyes NZ is a small island ?England both codes played ? France both codes played ?
in both NZ and England wealthy individuals want to get involved in rugby league Franchises.Even the bloody Harlequins union mob in London has now a partnership with the London Broncos.The Welsh Celtic crusaders coming into the NL next year have financial bakcing fom a welathy former union man.Cricket nor tennis whilst amateur didnt go out of their way to deride rugby league for being pro,union did and therein lies the hypocrisy.

 

[taipan]

I with you on this one Taipan . I want some local players to play for Samoa and Tonga in the RLWC .
But I would be more than happy to have Samoan and Tongans living in NZ and Sydney representing their Islands .
Than union players perdending to be league players from the local comp who would end up back in union .

mate i think that both Samoa and Tonga should at least have 3-4 local island players from the local competition and surely by 2008 Samoa would at least have a regular comp,such as Tonga does now.
I like to see a PI game where players I have never seen before play. I rember a few years back going to Mana island Fiji for a holiday,and watched the young guys playing touch football on the airstrip in bare feet ,where the strip had rocks all over it.The speed and handling was superb. There is so much natural talent around ,that doesnt get an opportunity to develope.

 

[Woods99]

You are rubbishing the fact that the crowd at the Wales game was just over 1,000, FFS its only just started this type of series.Might I remind you if you didnt need reminding that RL had a SL war which would have killed of any other code.the intnl game is only just now getting on its feet viz a viz the last 2 tri series tests.

I have never heard of a sport being killed off by the injection of huge amounts of money. Even cricket seemed to survive the Packer revolution.

Growth from a small base is easy, wouldn't you say?

The NRL is the biggest impediment to the growth of international league at the top level, plus the fact that there doesn't appear to be a legitimate, credible, international body in charge of the international game.

The fastest growing repeat growing sports in England and Wales are rugby league (according to Sport England and this is more so in London).Nowehere have I implied somehow rugby league is strong or huge internationally,however it is being developed ie growing(something which seems to get under your skin).I have no problem with 1200 attending the infant Wales intnl because a Canada v Wallabies intnl at Parramatta a few years back got wait for it 7,000.
There is a former Wallaby running around who was offered a large sum to switch to league,he remained in union,let us say units in the eastern suburbs make a better offer.Some hypocrisy in payments, mate your living under a mushroom Sth Africa,NZ,Wales,England and as I mention in some cases in Oz.
The S12 is going well to the further detriment of the club scene,and that is a worry for union not my problem.BTW league doesnt have that problem in Wales,the clubs work hand in hand .

The Sydney and Brisbane club competitions are a helluva lot stronger now than they were before the game went professional.

So there is a former Wallaby who made lots of money out of the game. Did he make it by playing for Australia, or in Australia? Of course not. That is the point that I made...rugby union was genuinely amateur in Australia, while it was professional, either in cash or in kind, in all the other major countries playing the game.

Dont talk to me about French union players earning money as being the main reason for leagues struggle in France:lol: when their assets and monies were nicked.The league had 300,000 francs in the bank and were in fact overtaking union ,until the good old vichy govt grabbed all the code's assets,and the de Gaulle govt handed the assets to the union.When you get all your money stolen, its pretty hard to compete with a cashed up competitor.Take away all the money from the NRL and the clubs and see how league would go in oz,sheesh.Then again in your eyes this never happened in France.thats exactly what is says about the importance of money,especially when it is stolen,fell into that one mate.

Taipan, players who are good enough to earn an income from professional sport have a tendency to go where the money is the best. The money was better in rugby union in France, so the better players tended to gravitate towards rugby union. That is what happened.

As for the Vichy government, I have never denied that they confiscated the assets of rugby league, or whatever else is alleged. I have simply pointed out that this did not seem to affect the ability for France to turn out a succession of brilliant international league sides during the fifties.

De Gaulle came into power in 1961, a long time after the Vichy Government. And whatever he did, more than forty years have elapsed since then. More than enough time for any sport to make its mark.

After all, according to you, the Super League war "would have killed off any other code". And yet league in Australia is booming only a few years later?

What is the difference between here and France? Money, that's what. There is a lot more money for league here, than there is or ever has been for league in France.

Ever heard of PNG pop 4.5m national sport rugby league,do a bit of research >the have aSP semi pro comp operating next year full sponsored.Woods99 for heaven's sake.

Not only have I heard of PNG, I have worked there as a consultant to the PNG government. The country is a social, political, and economic basket-case. Australian aid money is going to be used to help support rugby league there, and a good thing too.

Mate, take a look back at what I said. I said that the only major country in which league is more important than rugby union is Australia. I did not say that rugby league is not played in major countries.

And, coincidentally, Australia is the only major country in which rugby union was genuinely amateur. Not only that, but league actually had far more money than it does in virtually all other market-places ( some Pommies claim that league has lots of money there, but rugby union has always had more).

The simple point is, that league is more popular here primarily because it has always been semi-professional at least, while rugby union was amateur until very recently. Hard to escape that conclusion, wouldn't you say? If there were other reasons, why don't they apply elsewhere that the two codes have been played in a serious way?

what the hell is a major country in your eyes NZ is a small island ?England both codes played ? France both codes played ?
in both NZ and England wealthy individuals want to get involved in rugby league Franchises.Even the bloody Harlequins union mob in London has now a partnership with the London Broncos.The Welsh Celtic crusaders coming into the NL next year have financial bakcing fom a welathy former union man.Cricket nor tennis whilst amateur didnt go out of their way to deride rugby league for being pro,union did and therein lies the hypocrisy.

Professional tennis players were not allowed to play in the big tournaments until tennis went professional. What is the difference? Rugby union players were not allowed to play rugby league, because it was professional. As to the derision you talk about, I see plenty of that from league supporters towards the rah rahs too.