Top 20 Kangaroos of the Past 30 Years...

[mrpwnd]

Bizarre list, Lockyer should be much higher.

Really?
The list states 'top 20 kangaroos', so the top 20, best players right?
If you wanted Lockyer higher then it'd have to be in a seperate list of 'long careers as kangaroos', other than his longevity as a player, I personally feel most of those blokes on that list have had more impact on test footy overall.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

I'm not sure any player could claim to have won more games for Australia than Lockyer.

 

[mrpwnd]

I'm not sure any player could claim to have won more games for Australia than Lockyer.

Define 'winning' games for Australia.
If by that you mean leading/captaining Australia to a lot of wins then sure.
But if you mean he was the main game breaker in most games won by Australia then I will have to disagree with you.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

He played a huge hand in a lot of Australian wins. Think 2003 game one v GB and the Tri-Nations final in 2006. And they're just the ones where he actually scored the game-winning try. I think the fact that he has played the most games and captained the most games and scored the most tries and has done it in two different positions is enough to put him right up near the top of the list anyway. In fact I'd probably only have him second to Mal. I'm not sure what other players can claim to have achieved more.

 

[mrpwnd]

He played a huge hand in a lot of Australian wins. Think 2003 game one v GB and the Tri-Nations final in 2006. And they're just the ones where he actually scored the game-winning try. I think the fact that he has played the most games and captained the most games and scored the most tries and has done it in two different positions is enough to put him right up near the top of the list anyway. In fact I'd probably only have him second to Mal. I'm not sure what other players can claim to have achieved more.

2006 game winning try was completely on the back of a brilliant effort by Thurston. I can't remember the 2003 game so I won't comment on that, but I still don't see Lockyer as the type of player that can make-or-break games with his performance.
An inspirational leader definitely and someone you'd most certainly want in your side for that trait, but not because he'll go smashing through half a team to score miracle try.

 

[Big Pete]

Tri Nations final 2004 as well.

Test football was the arena Lockyer truly shined.

 

[mrpwnd]

Tri Nations final 2004 as well.

Test football was the arena Lockyer truly shined.

He was good in test footy, but good enough to trump the individual performances of the players that everyone seems to think he should be ahead of? Personally, I don't think so but to each their own opinion I guess.

 

[Bobby DIGital]

I wonder if Laurie Daley grits his teeth whenever he reads these types of polls. He was better then Fittler at all levels but nearly always ends up behind him on these types of lists.

I'm sure he does. I guess that's his punishment for joining SL. He get's disrespected while the inferior Fittler is lauded.

 

[typicalfan]

2006 game winning try was completely on the back of a brilliant effort by Thurston. I can't remember the 2003 game so I won't comment on that, but I still don't see Lockyer as the type of player that can make-or-break games with his performance.
An inspirational leader definitely and someone you'd most certainly want in your side for that trait, but not because he'll go smashing through half a team to score miracle try.

Lockyer has more great individual performances for Australia than guys like Johns, Fittler, Alf etc

Not so much at NRL or State of Origin level where his longevity gives him his status, but at test level he was a freak.

2003 he won every game for us in the dying minutes. 2004 in that 44-4 demolition that was the best solo performance in a big international I have seen for Australia.

The irony is he has one of the worst international performances as well.

Johns had that incredible 1995 World Cup when without most of the SL talent he and Toovey guided the team to a win.

 

[typicalfan]

He was good in test footy, but good enough to trump the individual performances of the players that everyone seems to think he should be ahead of? Personally, I don't think so but to each their own opinion I guess.

I think he does so easily. Can anyone name someone with more starring Australian performances?

Meninga and Lockyer are the cream of the crop. They are the best Kangaroos imo, doesnt mean they are better overall players although they are right up there. When they pulled the green and gold on they were champions.

 

[ANTiLAG]

This is a team of legends of the last 30 years that would strike fear into the heart of any team in the Jim Beam cup.

1 Paul Hauff
2 Shannon Heggarty
3 Joel Monaghan
4 Jamie Ainscough
5 David Williams
6 Michael Crocker
7 John Simon
8 Richard Villasanti
9 David Trewhella
10 Antonio Kaufusi
11 Carl Webb
12 Jane Carlaw
13 Wayne Bartim
14 Kurt Gidley
15 Ben Creagh
16 Brad Godden
17 Josh Perry
18 Kite/White

 

[Big Pete]

Bit harsh on Kitey Laggy. I actually thought he stood up in the Internationals.

He was just one of those cod ordinary Origin players...like Sailor and Renouf.

 

[PARRA_FAN]

Elias? You're kidding. I think he only played one test in 85 and about 5 in 1990. Apart from that he was beaten by the Walters brothers and Conescu for the hooker spot.

Steve Walters was good Id have him in my 20.

Lockyer was the best Ive seen. Fittler and Johns were great. The best forwards Ive seen were Webcke, Civoniceva, Tallis, Lazarus.

 

[The 18th Man]

Bit harsh on Kitey Laggy. I actually thought he stood up in the Internationals.

He was just one of those cod ordinary Origin players...like Sailor and Renouf.

Showing your age here. You're looking at appearances to tries scored in the case of Sailor and Renouf. The stat books don't record meters gained by Sailor who'd act as a second forward when QLD were in trouble or the defensive prowess of Renouf who would shut down his opposite. Both could have scored more granted, though both don't deserve to be labelled "ordinary".

 

[Big Pete]

You're looking at appearances to tries scored in the case of Sailor and Renouf.

Thanks for telling me what I'm basing my opinion on.

No, what I saw of them at Origin was incredibly poor and well below what you'd expect from either player.

 

[The 18th Man]

Thanks for telling me what I'm basing my opinion on.

No, what I saw of them at Origin was incredibly poor and well below what you'd expect from either player.

Based on this, I know not to take you too seriously. Both players, QLD greats, have been labelled "ordinary" and now "incredibly poor". Basing opinion on stats and dvd highlights is a fool's game (have to assume as much here as it appears you are to throw those labels around). I wish we (NSW) has two "incredibly poor" players like Sailor and Renouf back in the day.

How many games did you see of their Origin career in their entirety? (Rhetorical question, I know the answer)

As they say, we will agree to disagree.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Based on this, I know not to take you too seriously. Both players, QLD greats, have been labelled "ordinary" and now "incredibly poor". Basing opinion on stats and dvd highlights is a fool's game (have to assume as much here as it appears you are to throw those labels around). I wish we (NSW) has two "incredibly poor" players like Sailor and Renouf back in the day.

How many games did you see of their Origin career in their entirety? (Rhetorical question, I know the answer)

As they say, we will agree to disagree.

Well I have watched, in the entirity, ALL OF THEIR GAMES.

As much as I normally ruffle Pete's feathers - for mine, he has got the Renouf almost certainly criticism bang on, and I agree with him on Sailor.

Renouf did not have defensive prowess at origin level - he was a massive liability in Origin - maybe your forgetting how many times HE WAS DROPPED from the team for being too small and weak in defence. That is not shown in the hiighlight reels. But watch the NSW highlight reels - Renouf is seen falling off tackles or rushing on D and missing the play. Not to mention hardly being an origin try scoring freak. Renouf was nothing short of below average in Origin. Queensland legend? Only in the eyes of babes and fools who hear rumours of reputation and a few Broncos highlight reels and games. Had a good game in a World Cup final against GB, though.

Sailor may have helped the forwards out - but is that not the point of a big burly winger? It was pretty much a fundamental part of his 3 roles.

1 Help forwards
2 Score tries
3 Stop opposition tries

In number 2 Sailor failed - hence his ommission from highlight reels and was marginal/fail at best on 3 - hence his appearance on NSW highlight reels.

Sorry 18th Man - maybe your older age is causing you to forget....

 

[The 18th Man]

Well I have watched, in the entirity, ALL OF THEIR GAMES.

As much as I normally ruffle Pete's feathers - for mine, he has got the Renouf almost certainly criticism bang on, and I agree with him on Sailor.

Renouf did not have defensive prowess at origin level - he was a massive liability in Origin - maybe your forgetting how many times HE WAS DROPPED from the team for being too small and weak in defence. That is not shown in the hiighlight reels. But watch the NSW highlight reels - Renouf is seen falling off tackles or rushing on D and missing the play. Not to mention hardly being an origin try scoring freak. Renouf was nothing short of below average in Origin. Queensland legend? Only in the eyes of babes and fools who hear rumours of reputation and a few Broncos highlight reels and games. Had a good game in a World Cup final against GB, though.

Sailor may have helped the forwards out - but is that not the point of a big burly winger? It was pretty much a fundamental part of his 3 roles.

1 Help forwards
2 Score tries
3 Stop opposition tries

In number 2 Sailor failed - hence his ommission from highlight reels and was marginal/fail at best on 3 - hence his appearance on NSW highlight reels.

Sorry 18th Man - maybe your older age is causing you to forget....

Perhaps. Excellent post however. Again, agree to disagree with their labels and some of your observations especially re: Renouf.

 

[The 18th Man]

I just saw a lit from Phil Rothfield, all subjective, though the veteran journo had him 29 in his Top 50 Greatest Origin Players of All Time. I don't think I am alone in the assessment of Renouf. Sailor missed out from memory, ok, though I think Renouf's lack of tries (albeit on par with Meninga's try scoring average at Origin) is hurting him in the minds of some.

Renouf must have been doing something right, as too Sailor, to be gaining Australian selection after Origin.

Each to their own. Again, as a New South Welshmen, I'd happily have these two "duds".

p.s. Appologies if I have come across as an arrogant twat in the original post as I feel I may have, that wasn't the intention. I can edit if needed. I respect the opinion's of all here.

 

[Big Pete]

I don't base my opinions on highlights or stats. I've actually watched the odd series or two and neither player stood out. Sailor from 98-01 and Renouf in 94 and 98. Would hardly call them greats and would say they disappointed at that level. As Laggy pointed out Renouf had a good game against England hence why I put him into the Brent Kite/Brett Kimmorley league of players who were good for Australia but disappointing for their respective states.

18th Man, using Rothfield as a source is like me using Gaba...

and Laggy ruffle my feathers? Normally we agree...unless we're arguing semantics.