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Ultrathread I: Thread of the Year - 2014

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afinalsin666

First Grade
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8,163
I'm happy when I'm happy. Right now I'm happy. That could change, and if it does I'll change myself to find happy again.

There's no win condition in life is my motto. Just enjoy it. If you enjoy crushing the competition and keeping score with grades and eventual currency, then f**k yeah, good. But it's the enjoyment that matters, not the end game.

People like to look down on taking out monetary loans. But when you look at it, if you hate a job you have, hate the life you live while you are working it, then you are just taking a loan out on happiness. You are going without today for a chance at being there better tomorrow. You just gotta hope that tomorrow is everything you thought it would be, or the years without is going to crush you.
 

Dragon2010

First Grade
Messages
8,953
I'm happy when I'm happy. Right now I'm happy. That could change, and if it does I'll change myself to find happy again.

There's no win condition in life is my motto. Just enjoy it. If you enjoy crushing the competition and keeping score with grades and eventual currency, then f**k yeah, good. But it's the enjoyment that matters, not the end game.

People like to look down on taking out monetary loans. But when you look at it, if you hate a job you have, hate the life you live while you are working it, then you are just taking a loan out on happiness. You are going without today for a chance at being there better tomorrow. You just gotta hope that tomorrow is everything you thought it would be, or the years without is going to crush you.

Good analogy, to be honest. Certainly a good way to look at it.

For me, it's not so much "crushing" people. It's more proving them wrong. It's what drives me - it sounds stupid, I know. But it's what works for me. It helps motivate and drive me. There is nothing more than motivating to me then someone telling me "I can't do it, I'm not good enough". I'm too stubborn, proud and somewhat stupid to let them win.

One year ago, I was stuck doing very little with my life. But a push to not just survive, but to thrive and set my self high-goals allowed me to make a very quick turn-around. I've now achieved great results in a relatively hard field of study, going overseas to study, building good finances/financial security and more. All due to wanting to be "the best" so to speak.

Don't get me wrong - I'm 100% happy with where I am, as I enjoy it. But for me, it's the end game that is my ultimate goal. I've set my self a goal and I aim to achieve that. If I don't make it, does it mean I've failed? Depends, I guess I will find out in time.

I love the life I live, I love who I am (nearly) and I love what I both work and study.
 

afinalsin666

First Grade
Messages
8,163
That's what matters, that you love what you do. The end game will be good, but don't ever let it be the only good. f**k that.

My priorities are starting to shift. After my US trip last year I am still broke as f**k. A year and more in the hole, it's kind of shit. So once I'm out of debt, I'm going for training and such and starting work. Not to be the best, but to buy the best. If I can go on an 8 thousand dollar trip on centerlink payments, I'm pretty sure I could get some sweet stuff with an actual wage.

That and I'm sick of people who are miserable, stuck in a dead end job with tens of thousands in debt and a broken marriage telling me to grow up. Righto, I'll get right on that.
 

Dragon2010

First Grade
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8,953
That's what matters, that you love what you do. The end game will be good, but don't ever let it be the only good. f**k that.

My priorities are starting to shift. After my US trip last year I am still broke as f**k. A year and more in the hole, it's kind of shit. So once I'm out of debt, I'm going for training and such and starting work. Not to be the best, but to buy the best. If I can go on an 8 thousand dollar trip on centerlink payments, I'm pretty sure I could get some sweet stuff with an actual wage.

That and I'm sick of people who are miserable, stuck in a dead end job with tens of thousands in debt and a broken marriage telling me to grow up. Righto, I'll get right on that.

Oh, the end game is by no means the only good. It's just a main target of mine. By me setting my eyes a goal, it gives me an ideal and end point to strive towards. Without it, I'd lack overall direction.

That's the thing - you can make it work with what you have. But for you, it's about moving on from a current point. Peoples priorities shift. It took me two attempts to find what I love studying, now that I do - I have no intention of changing. I enjoy it so much, I feel as if I never study when I do it. Instead, just bettering my knowledge. In saying that, I have a thirst for knowledge in general.

Your last point stood out. It's one I hear to often, "Start saving, Nathan. You need to get married one, have a life to build" etc. etc. I don't want to strive to that. Not everyone has the same end-goal. Me? I certainly don't see my self getting married and settled-down. At this point in time, I consider my self much more study/career building driven than anything.

I have a healthy savings account, I have property secured in my name (Not yet paid off) and some hopefully good investments. I'm only 21 - so if they turn out, they'll help. In saying that, I won't sacrifice any of them to start building towards a marriage or thinking about a family to come, when I know deep down - I don't want that life. It's just not me.

In fact, my next financial goal is to get my car fixed and sorted so I can sell it. Upon my return, I wish to actually buy a new car and from there, start saving for more investments (or eventually, by then my own place).

It's all about progress, I've always been one to hate mediocrity - my dad has always raised me to have a strong, aggressive attitude towards success and I guess I'm adapting it. I mean, it worked well for him to some extent (Should he have not been screwed over financially during my parents divorce).
 
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Im 28, still have no idea what career I'd enjoy and I think I'll never be a person lucky enough to have a job they love. I earn about 55k on the books and then maybe another 5-10k cash. That's pretty good from where I started in housing commission with useless parents but I don't any drive to do more, maybe that will change with kids.
 

muzby

Village Idiot
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45,973
I've got a topic I'd like to raise a bit of (hopeful) discussion on. Hopefully, it makes sense.

In regards to life/career drive - how do you sell yourself?

I mean, are you happy just to live day by day and survive. Have a stable career and do a job that makes ends meet and no more, or do you want to be somebody, be the best you can possible be and rise above the rest?

I know it's common to see both - ie. Some people are just happy (or privileged) enough to be able to put food on the table and keep a roof above their head, and for them. That's enough.

Although, I must say, for me, whether it's due to arrogance or a competitive nature. I've always wanted to be the best and rise above. I can't stand being in one place and always look for ways to improve and better myself.

It was something that got bought up in a meeting I had today. Was just interested to see how other people feel about it.

interesting position... i'm always striving to improve.. be it family environment, knowledge, career, income.. if you get stale you get left behind is my mantra..

let me give you my take on a few points from your post..


In regards to life/career drive - how do you sell yourself?

less about how you sell yourself.. what will get you ahead is how you perform / act..

I mean, are you happy just to live day by day and survive. Have a stable career and do a job that makes ends meet and no more, or do you want to be somebody, be the best you can possible be and rise above the rest?

something i've kept in check is that no matter how good i think i am at something, there is always someone better.. so find that person and learn from them..

Although, I must say, for me, whether it's due to arrogance or a competitive nature. I've always wanted to be the best and rise above. I can't stand being in one place and always look for ways to improve and better myself.

a few rules that i've learned / had given to me by people i respect:

  1. get a mentor. doesn't always have to be the same one, but find someone you respect and learn from them
  2. don't forget the little people on the way up. too many people get burned by pushing their own ambitions ahead of the feelings of others. will come back to bite you.
  3. under promise, over deliver. tough one as it's easy to promise something to please somebody, but if you miss by even 1 degree, you've tarnished your 'brand'
 
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sensesmaybenumbed

Moderator
Staff member
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29,226
The Wife is the driven one, but some excellent advice from muzby.

There will always be someone better, eventually.

If you ask for opinions, be prepared to listen. The best ideas can come from the most unexpected places. So many times management just ask the question to give the impression they care but they are simply going through the motions.

In work and life though, I always under promise and over deliver.
It should be everyone's #1 rule.

That, and be punctual. Being late, especially in business, just screams to clients that your time is worth more than theirs.
 
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Eelementary

Post Whore
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57,275
I hate the corporate world. It's filled to the brim with self-serving, lazy, ignorant f**kwits whose only talents are to kiss enormous amounts of arse, throw others under the bus to promote their own interests and being incredibly lazy.

The higher up you climb the corporate ladder, the worse a person you become, because the only way to climb up in the first place is to become a lazy, selfish, opportunist arsehole.
 

Rhino_NQ

Immortal
Messages
33,050
there is a bloke ehre on a rumoured 180k a year and in the nearly 3 weeks now ive been here has not sent out a document/register/noticed etc that hasn't been typed by somone else or been asked a question that he hasn't handballed to the engineer under him. He is also the first to leave each day, we cant figure out what he actually does through the day
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
45,973
there is a bloke ehre on a rumoured 180k a year and in the nearly 3 weeks now ive been here has not sent out a document/register/noticed etc that hasn't been typed by somone else or been asked a question that he hasn't handballed to the engineer under him. He is also the first to leave each day, we cant figure out what he actually does through the day

see sounds to me just like he's an effective delegator.. a good skill to have the more senior you get.. you can't do everything yourself..

assuming based on your perception of his salary that is a lot for the worksite and he would be reasonably senior, so based on that, would typing up a document or notice be the best return on his salary?

would he not have someone else type it out, and he sign off what has been written? he'd be getting paid for the responsibility / buck stopping with him, rather than paid for typing something up..

same as the delegating to his subordinate.. that may be something that is potentially better off answered by the guy at that level.. if someone came and asked your boss a question that was really in your job scope, would you not prefer your boss direct the person to you, rather than doing your job for you?
 

Rhino_NQ

Immortal
Messages
33,050
you could ask him a quality manager question or ask him what colour the sky is and he'll still dance around it and handball it off, it's an auto response. And part of his job is to send otu QA documents and updated registers which he does nothing of and occasionally has somone else on his computer to attach them and send them jsut so it is from his email address
 

Dragon2010

First Grade
Messages
8,953
Oh and what I earn is plenty to live on up on the Central Coast and not Sydney

That's good then - if you are happy and enjoying it, why not? You make enough to have ends meet and live within your own means. As I said, I was just curious to see others. I don't judge/look down for it. I'm not exactly "set" yet.

It's just interesting to see different people.

not living in Sydney is a win

In ways, yes.

  1. get a mentor. doesn't always have to be the same one, but find someone you respect and learn from them
  2. don't forget the little people on the way up. too many people get burned by pushing their own ambitions ahead of the feelings of others. will come back to bite you.
  3. under promise, over deliver. tough one as it's easy to promise something to please somebody, but if you miss by even 1 degree, you've tarnished your 'brand'

I snipped the rest of the message, but I see your point. I know I'll never be "the best" doesn't mean that one can't strive towards such ideal. It's a hard thing to define "the best" when you look at all aspects. People argue who is the best NRL player, the best scientist, the best politician. What makes one better than the other? Who knows. Everyone is judged by ones perception.

In my perception, I think some people are the best (if not, one of the best) in their fields. But others feel different.

I do have a mentor actually, so that's a good benefit for me. As for the little people, I've always been a pretty genuine person. I can be a hard-ass at times and step on others to get where I need (Have done this twice before).

The Wife is the driven one, but some excellent advice from muzby.

There will always be someone better, eventually.

If you ask for opinions, be prepared to listen. The best ideas can come from the most unexpected places. So many times management just ask the question to give the impression they care but they are simply going through the motions.

In work and life though, I always under promise and over deliver.
It should be everyone's #1 rule.

That, and be punctual. Being late, especially in business, just screams to clients that your time is worth more than theirs.

For business, yes 100%. But I'm talking more in general too.

I hate the corporate world. It's filled to the brim with self-serving, lazy, ignorant f**kwits whose only talents are to kiss enormous amounts of arse, throw others under the bus to promote their own interests and being incredibly lazy.

The higher up you climb the corporate ladder, the worse a person you become, because the only way to climb up in the first place is to become a lazy, selfish, opportunist arsehole.

Then what world do you like? Much of the world is corrupt and filled with issues. I could easily say the lazy blue-collar council workers who have been fixing a line near my street for three weeks now are lazy and ignorant due to the fact they never seem to be doing shit and even when they do, they almost look as if they are pretending to work.

there is a bloke ehre on a rumoured 180k a year and in the nearly 3 weeks now ive been here has not sent out a document/register/noticed etc that hasn't been typed by somone else or been asked a question that he hasn't handballed to the engineer under him. He is also the first to leave each day, we cant figure out what he actually does through the day

Yes, that sounds about right. I know a few people like that. Obviously, when in such position. You have pawns do your work for you and you merely oversee everyone (Assuming he is in such position). Our supervisors here rarely do much hands on work, more checking eMails, managing their team and so forth.

It does get a bit lazier, but in ways - he could be doing more than you imagine. It's hard to judge without seeing him every step (I'm not in any way supporting him - just stating what I've seen).

see sounds to me just like he's an effective delegator.. a good skill to have the more senior you get.. you can't do everything yourself..

assuming based on your perception of his salary that is a lot for the worksite and he would be reasonably senior, so based on that, would typing up a document or notice be the best return on his salary?

would he not have someone else type it out, and he sign off what has been written? he'd be getting paid for the responsibility / buck stopping with him, rather than paid for typing something up..

same as the delegating to his subordinate.. that may be something that is potentially better off answered by the guy at that level.. if someone came and asked your boss a question that was really in your job scope, would you not prefer your boss direct the person to you, rather than doing your job for you?

Muzby hits the nail on the head.

If I was on 180k p.a and I needed a document typed up, I'd get someone else to do it - given my value per hour, I could find more productive means while you have willing workers.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,275
That's good then - if you are happy and enjoying it, why not? You make enough to have ends meet and live within your own means. As I said, I was just curious to see others. I don't judge/look down for it. I'm not exactly "set" yet.

It's just interesting to see different people.



In ways, yes.



I snipped the rest of the message, but I see your point. I know I'll never be "the best" doesn't mean that one can't strive towards such ideal. It's a hard thing to define "the best" when you look at all aspects. People argue who is the best NRL player, the best scientist, the best politician. What makes one better than the other? Who knows. Everyone is judged by ones perception.

In my perception, I think some people are the best (if not, one of the best) in their fields. But others feel different.

I do have a mentor actually, so that's a good benefit for me. As for the little people, I've always been a pretty genuine person. I can be a hard-ass at times and step on others to get where I need (Have done this twice before).



For business, yes 100%. But I'm talking more in general too.



Then what world do you like? Much of the world is corrupt and filled with issues. I could easily say the lazy blue-collar council workers who have been fixing a line near my street for three weeks now are lazy and ignorant due to the fact they never seem to be doing shit and even when they do, they almost look as if they are pretending to work.



Yes, that sounds about right. I know a few people like that. Obviously, when in such position. You have pawns do your work for you and you merely oversee everyone (Assuming he is in such position). Our supervisors here rarely do much hands on work, more checking eMails, managing their team and so forth.

It does get a bit lazier, but in ways - he could be doing more than you imagine. It's hard to judge without seeing him every step (I'm not in any way supporting him - just stating what I've seen).



Muzby hits the nail on the head.

If I was on 180k p.a and I needed a document typed up, I'd get someone else to do it - given my value per hour, I could find more productive means while you have willing workers.

When I say "lazy", I'm not talking about delegating work (a valuable and genuine skill good management needs to have) or appearing to do nothing. I am literally saying they do nothing - they rock up late, they clock off early, and worst of all, when they are in a position to help a client (and we are not, being on the bottom ring of the ladder), they do nothing to help the client - instead, they threaten the client and twist the perception so that everyone thinks they are a "company man".

The world works this way, but it makes me sick that people have no ethics any more. It's all about looking after themselves, and f**k everyone else.
 

Dragon2010

First Grade
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8,953
When I say "lazy", I'm not talking about delegating work (a valuable and genuine skill good management needs to have) or appearing to do nothing. I am literally saying they do nothing - they rock up late, they clock off early, and worst of all, when they are in a position to help a client (and we are not, being on the bottom ring of the ladder), they do nothing to help the client - instead, they threaten the client and twist the perception so that everyone thinks they are a "company man".

The world works this way, but it makes me sick that people have no ethics any more. It's all about looking after themselves, and f**k everyone else.

Ahhhh, I get you. In honesty, I agree to that - See it happen all to often. Even at a university level, I see professors commit this crime often, but because they are "Always right" you can't win against such attitude.

I guess it's the way modern business has involved, all about lining their own pockets, saving their own hide and f*ck everyone else. It's not a good mentality to have - but it is a competitive world out there.
 

Drew-Sta

Moderator
Staff member
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24,743
Careers eat you alive if you let them. I get in at 8:45am and leave by 5:10pm each day. I have 45min lunchs and make sure I take them.

Despite this, in two months I've completed a project to create vintageless DFU codes for the entire Cellarmasters business, am two-fifths of the way to completing the forecasting programs for the entire business, have restructured their forecasting process, have helped manage the culture change through getting alongside people, learnt the business (albeit somewhat rudimentary at the moment, you always learn the business) and managed to reform how our department will move forward.

The diligence of having a work life balance to ensure when you come to work you're ready to 'pour out' your efforts, while also making sure you manage your time and priorities, makes a huge difference.

Despite this, I'm not interested in 'building' a career. I'm interested in doing a good job, but that's about it.

I've seen people focus on their career, and all it does is eat them alive. Marriages fail, kids grow up without parents being around, health is impacted etc etc.

Careers are dangerous animals that unless properly caged and retrained, end up killing you.
 

Drew-Sta

Moderator
Staff member
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24,743
Also, having the right boss has made a massive difference to me. My previous boss was a hindrance. My current boss wants the best for me and wants me to come to work with a smile and so makes an effort to provide an environment to do so - I can't stress the difference this makes.

I realise that's not entirely in your control, but whatever you can do to influence it, do it.
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
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45,973
Ahhhh, I get you. In honesty, I agree to that - See it happen all to often. Even at a university level, I see professors commit this crime often, but because they are "Always right" you can't win against such attitude.

I guess it's the way modern business has involved, all about lining their own pockets, saving their own hide and f*ck everyone else. It's not a good mentality to have - but it is a competitive world out there.

unfortunately lazy behaviour is not just confined to the corporate and educational sectors..

it's a human trait, so it's across all areas..

there are plenty of shoddy / lazy tradies..

retail staff..

hell, even those who bludge on public handouts are the societal version of these same people..
 
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