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Ultrathread I: Thread of the Year - 2014

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Dragon2010

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Who gives a f**k? Should we hand parts of England to Italy because they have historical claims to it?

We'll hand over the NE US to an Indian nation, set up a new Persian Empire in Greece, and hand parts of India and Egypt to Macedonia while we're at it.

I'm not saying I agree with it. I'm saying, that was the point behind it. Post WW-II they packed their bags and went there. Looking for a place to settle. They wanted to escape Europe. They wanted nothing to do with Germany or be near it.

Many fled to other areas of Europe and America, but those that went to "Palestine" wanted to settle and live there. From that point on, conflict started. One that has (and likely, never will) end.

They both have historical links to the land - do allow one but deny the other does not work. That was the issue with is. The Israelis never truly "left", many just moves, some stayed and the Palestinian population dominated.
 

Misanthrope

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I'm not saying I agree with it. I'm saying, that was the point behind it. Post WW-II they packed their bags and went there. Looking for a place to settle. They wanted to escape Europe. They wanted nothing to do with Germany or be near it.

Many fled to other areas of Europe and America, but those that went to "Palestine" wanted to settle and live there. From that point on, conflict started. One that has (and likely, never will) end.

They both have historical links to the land - do allow one but deny the other does not work. That was the issue with is. The Israelis never truly "left", many just moves, some stayed and the Palestinian population dominated.

I wonder if Palestine would have been offered the lion's share if they'd owned more banks?

The blood for all of this is on the UN (and particularly the US and UK)'s hands. They can wrong their hands and shout 'O! The humanity!' all they like, but this is the fault of their arrogance and lack of understanding towards the region.
 
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Dragon2010

First Grade
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8,953
I wonder if Palestine would have been offered the lion's share if they'd owned more banks?

The blood for all of this is on the UN (and particularly the US and UK)'s hands. They can wrong their hands and shout 'O! The humanity!' all they like, but this is the fault of their arrogance and lack of understanding towards the region.

I'm going off memory here. When 33 countries approved the original partition of the land, and 13 disapproved it. It looks like majority agree. But when the 13 that disapprove it are all Arab/Middle-Eastern countries, it should've raised a red-flag.

The biggest issue for the partition was, that Jerusalem was placed within the centre of Arab land, something the Israelis were unhappy with.
 

muzby

Village Idiot
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45,971
effective or idiot? discuss..

A US man has burned down his home in a botched attempt at killing a spider.

Rather than try to kill the arachnid with a shoe or some rolled up newspaper, the unnamed man decided to create a makeshift flamethrower with a cigarette lighter and a can of spray paint, KOMO News reports.

The homemade weapon quickly set the laundry of the Seattle home ablaze, and the man was forced to flee the house after failing to douse the flames himself.

"I don't want to encourage people to do this, but that's what he did," fire official Kyle Moore said.

"The spider tried to get into the wall. He sprayed flames on the wall, lit the wall on fire, and that extended up to the ceiling."

Firefighters were unable to douse the flames up close after being told there may have been ammunition nearby.

"There are safer, more effective ways to kill a spider than using fire," Mr Moore said.

"I'm pretty sure the spider did not survive this fire."

It will cost more than $40,000 to repair the rental property.

http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/07/17/19/18/man-burns-down-house-trying-to-kill-spider
 

t-ba

Post Whore
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I would contend that had that vote occurred 20 years later it would have been very different. The UN of 1947 was overwhelmingly European/Western Hemisphere and overwhelmingly Christian.

Regardless of history, the facts are simple and I would like to see anyone dispute these.

The State of Israel is the political body in charge of the former British Mandate of Palestine. Though there are 'governments' in both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, ultimate power resides with the Israeli state due to the power of its army, the IDF. This has been the case now for nearly 50 years.

The demographics indicate that some 14 million people live within the borders of the Israeli controlled region. roughly 6.5 million of those are Jewish, and approximately 7 million of those identify as Arabs, largely Muslim but also with a large Christian Minority. the 1.6 million or so who live as Israeli Arabs are poorer, less educated and can expect to live much shorter lives than the six million Jews who live in what is recognized as the State of Israel. In the Occupied territories, some 550,000 Jewish Settlers live in heavily armed enclaves that bisect the West Bank, creating a serious of 'Islands,' access to which is controlled by the IDF. These settlers enjoy first world access to resources, education, infrastructure, housing and healthcare, whilst the five and a half million 'Palestinians' live in execrable conditions and have their lives largely controlled by the Israeli state.

The 'Jewish state' is now controlled by a people who are not an absolute majority in population terms of the area that they occupy. They have carved up the Occupied territories into what essentially amounts into a series of statelets, movement of which, in and out, is largely controlled in much the same manner that immigration checkpoints between nations are. They have tried, and largely failed to co-opt a number of 'Arab' peoples, but have largely failed on that front, with the Druze being a notable exception and success story.

What is Israel's long term game plan here? Clearly a Palestinian state isn't part of it. Clearly enfranchising the people of the West Bank is Definitely not part of it. Even when they've negotiated with the other side they've shown their disingenuous intents by continuing to plop down settlements in the occupied territories. They're dealing with a demographic time bomb that will soon put Arab Muslims in absolute majority of the territories they occupy, the majority of whom will have no franchise but will still have their lives completely controlled by the Israeli state via the IDF.

Israel is becoming South Africa. Short of expelling large numbers of Arabs (an option actually popular amongst sections of Likud), they'll be an apartheid regime within 20 years.

And that's not even considering the hostility of the states surrounding Israel and the impact that its continued antagonism has on the Global Islamic Insurgency.

Also, I'm not condoning the actions of groups like Hamas, but I really just do not understand what kind of end game Israel envisages here.
 
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Dragon2010

First Grade
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T-ba: They couldn't reach peace and agreement years ago, and they never will. Even if they do reach an agreement. How do they settle upon land, infrastructure and more. People that are settled now won't just move because their borders change.

It's to little, to late to change anything there. Best they can do is try reach peace in a sense that will allow both to survive. Even then, I give them a week before an extremist from either side launches a missile at innocents.

Is Israel the main aggressor? Yes. Are they the main issue? Yes. But that does not mean the Palestinians, or "Arabs" are innocent and have done no wrong - fact is, they have and continue to.
 

Dragon2010

First Grade
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It's rare that there is a bigger bad guy than extremist Muslim groups. Well in, Israel :lol:

There's plenty of big bad guys though. I mean, Kony is still running around Uganda. The social media teens and raging housemothers are yet to stop him with their campaign and wristbands. He must be one ultimate badass.
 

Misanthrope

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There's plenty of big bad guys though. I mean, Kony is still running around Uganda. The social media teens and raging housemothers are yet to stop him with their campaign and wristbands. He must be one ultimate badass.

That campaign went off the rails when that guy got caught jackin' it.
 

Dragon2010

First Grade
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8,953
That campaign went off the rails when that guy got caught jackin' it.

#Kony2012

That was a joke of a campaign to begin with. Kony was head of guerrilla army, take him out - someone else takes his place. That's the flaw of a failed state such as Uganda. Built on decades of such atrocities and they think selling wristbands will stop him.

You want to stop him, grab a gun and go find him in Uganda.
 

Misanthrope

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Malaysia Airlines with another disastrous crash. 295 reported dead after the flight to Amsterdam was allegedly shot down over the Ukraine heading into Russian airspace.

Jesus.
 

Dragon2010

First Grade
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8,953
Reports are saying they took it as a cargo/military plane. Not a civilian one. Either way, it's an absolute tragedy and the right steps will need to be taken to ensure it does not escalate into full blown combat (Which I doubt, to be honest).
 

whall15

Coach
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15,871
I'm rather critical of Obama but I think he's smarter than that.

A proxy war might be more of a possibility with NATO backing Ukraine and Russia backing the separatists.
 
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