Ultrathread I: Thread of the Year - 2014

[Dragon2010]

Tipping point for WWIII, do you think?

Nah, there's been some crazy events of late. Can't see it escalating that high. World has learnt from previous mistakes.

I'm rather critical of Obama but I think he's smarter than that.

A proxy war might be more of a possibility with NATO backing Ukraine and Russia backing the separatists.

^This. Even if that happens. Hard to say until the results of the investigation come back. For all we know, the flight path could've deviated into a no-fly soon etc.

 

[Drew-Sta]

I'm not saying I agree with it. I'm saying, that was the point behind it. Post WW-II they packed their bags and went there. Looking for a place to settle. They wanted to escape Europe. They wanted nothing to do with Germany or be near it.

Many fled to other areas of Europe and America, but those that went to "Palestine" wanted to settle and live there. From that point on, conflict started. One that has (and likely, never will) end.

They both have historical links to the land - do allow one but deny the other does not work. That was the issue with is. The Israelis never truly "left", many just moves, some stayed and the Palestinian population dominated.

That's not entirely right. Post WWII, Britain left Palestine and the UN made the decision to partition Palestine and create a new Israel state, which the Zionist movement within Jewish circiles supported.

They simply didn't 'move' there; they were given the opportunity to return there.

I agree they all wanted to get out of Germany, and most fled Europe, but the majority went to the States and England.

 

[Drew-Sta]

Nah, there's been some crazy events of late. Can't see it escalating that high. World has learnt from previous mistakes.

The world said that after WWI. And WWII. And Korea. And Vietnam...

We don't learn. Despite the belief in the intelligence of humanity, we don't.

 

[Drew-Sta]

I'm rather critical of Obama but I think he's smarter than that.

A proxy war might be more of a possibility with NATO backing Ukraine and Russia backing the separatists.

This is true re Obama. Cameron seems to have a few brains. My concern is Abbott would follow if someone went for it. He's the worst possible PM to have in at a war time I think.

Re proxy war, back to 'le Cold War' tactics - so yeah, again, I think you're right.

 

[muzby]

Tipping point for WWIII, do you think?

nope.. just feels like a lot going on cause it's all new news..

if 9/11 and subsequent invasions of iraq + afghanistan etc didn't do it, this shouldn't..

 

[Drew-Sta]

nope.. just feels like a lot going on cause it's all new news..

if 9/11 and subsequent invasions of iraq + afghanistan etc didn't do it, this shouldn't..

Afghanistan, Iraq aren't Russia. Kicking a camel doesn't usually result in much of a response, kicking a grizzly bear is likely to end poorly...

 

[Dragon2010]

That's not entirely right. Post WWII, Britain left Palestine and the UN made the decision to partition Palestine and create a new Israel state, which the Zionist movement within Jewish circiles supported.

They simply didn't 'move' there; they were given the opportunity to return there.

I agree they all wanted to get out of Germany, and most fled Europe, but the majority went to the States and England.

I'm going off sources I studied. As I said, it was some time ago so my memory is not 100% on the matter.

Point still stands regarding the rest though.

The world said that after WWI. And WWII. And Korea. And Vietnam...

We don't learn. Despite the belief in the intelligence of humanity, we don't.

Yes, but the world is different now. Not intelligence wise, but experience wise. Obama and many other world leaders will be pushing to make sure this ends with the least amount as bloodshed as possible and it's likely that will be the outcome. It's a different society, countries are learning how to better deal with issues. Ukraine and Russia have been battling issues for year, two planes shot down prior this week also.

It's never ending.

As I said - reports now say the plane could've;
- Flown off course to save time/fuel hence money
- Was only 300m above the restricted airspace
- Failed to communicated upon "supposed" contact
- Was advised in April to not fly over that area, many airlines deviated from there. They didn't.

So what do you believe as of the moment? Nothing. Is it serious? No doubt, but I don't think it's quite large enough to cause full-blown war (Yet). I'm not playing delirious/optimistic here in saying it won't happen, I just think it's ever unlikely.

This is true re Obama. Cameron seems to have a few brains. My concern is Abbott would follow if someone went for it. He's the worst possible PM to have in at a war time I think.

Re proxy war, back to 'le Cold War' tactics - so yeah, again, I think you're right.

Exactly. Cold war as opposed to WWIII.

 

[Dragon2010]

Afghanistan, Iraq aren't Russia. Kicking a camel doesn't usually result in much of a response, kicking a grizzly bear is likely to end poorly...

Do you honestly think Obama and the world are stupid enough to kick Putin, or Putin to bite back?

America is a lot more war hungry and aggressive than that of Malaysia. 9/11 was also significantly more catastrophic in sense of lives lost.

 

[thorson1987]

Well Putin has been looking for a fight.

 

[Misanthrope]

A lot of histrionic 'Oh no! World War 3!' rambling on Facebook.

Why on earth would the US (or any nation) start a war with a nuclear armed Russia over what was likely rebels shooting down a commercial airliner from Malaysia carrying civilians?

It's an awful tragedy, but we won't be seeing shots fired over it.

 

[Bazal]

Shots no. Sanctions, I would think yes. Not that Putin gives a fistful of termite shit. The people blaming the airline are funny

 

[sensesmaybenumbed]

So that poor ostrich died for nothing....

 

[Misanthrope]

Shots no. Sanctions, I would think yes. Not that Putin gives a fistful of termite shit. The people blaming the airline are funny

Agreed. Unless they come forward with indisputable proof that the airline had flown into a no fly zone or otherwise needlessly risked lives, they are not at fault in the slightest.

Even in that case, they'd be considerably less to blame than whichever trigger happy idiot shot them down.

 

[Dragon2010]

Shots no. Sanctions, I would think yes. Not that Putin gives a fistful of termite shit. The people blaming the airline are funny

At this point in time, yes - it is funny. But once more information comes to surface who knows. Hence why the flight data is important. Will tell them what they need to know to see "what if any" went wrong with the flights.

As I said above to drew;
- Apparently only 1,000ft above no-fly zone (Out of reach, still)
- Didn't reply to communications (No idea if true)
- Was advised by airline board to avoid the area, regardless (Yet, they flew through "apparently)

 

[ek999]

I don't know if that dotted line is meant to be the planned flightpath or just to help show the intended destination, but if it is the intended flight path than it is a long way off track

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/mh17/#3d6095b

 

[DB]

According the the console on that page, that is the Shortest Route... Probably not flight path.

 

[ek999]

So it is, had a quick look but couldn't see it before

 

[Dragon2010]

According the the console on that page, that is the Shortest Route... Probably not flight path.

Red dotted line is the planned flight path. Blue line is the path is "supposedly" took. Again, nothing confirmed until that flight data comes to light.

 

[afinalsin666]

300 dead. Meh. 27 were Australians. Quick, plaster them headlines!

 

[Apey]

Why do these countries even exist still. Just bomb them all and be done with it. Gotta bomb something.