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Ultrathread I: Thread of the Year - 2014

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Dragon2010

First Grade
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8,953
Then they should be in a place where they can get help, not drugged up as though that'll solve it

Valid point.

Please define your parameters for "medicate it" - does this include seeing a psychiatrist, or even a therapist/psychologist?

I'm not against actual, medical drugs to be applied to people with mental health concerns, but it needs to be their own voluntary choice to make to take them - unless they decide to forgo medication and pose a genuine risk to others and themselves (after all, the duty of care should also encompass the sufferers).

But using my depression as an example, having so-called "doctors" try to medicate the problems away "because it was in my best interests" did me bo good at all.

Okay, I'll clear it up. By medicate, I mean to take medication to manage it, so you are contained. It keeps you mellow, composed etc.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
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57,277
Let's start a topic of debate. If you have a mental health issue, do you think it should be compulsory to medicate it?

Just to take your topic and steer it onto a slightly different course for one moment:

Exactly how much weight should the courts and legal system put into mental health and conditions of accused criminals?

I mean, a convicted paedophile is scum, but they clearly have some sort of psychological disorder which has made this person resort to acting the way they do, and while it mitigates the circumstances in a small way (just ask the relatives of the victims), exactly how much importance should be put on an accused and/or convicted criminal's state of mind at the time of the crime?

Using Rolf Harris as an example, he molested children, as that is abhorrent.

However, he must have some problems which moulded him into the man he is/was when he abused those children, and while it is not an excuse, can it really be ignored? Or can it really mitigate the circumstances to such a degree that his sentence should be shortened because of it?

A lot of legal systems now focus on rehabilitation rather than punishment; if a criminal has some psychological issue, causing them to lash out and behave inappropriately, they cannot really be completely of their own faculty, and as such, under the rule of law, cannot really be held completely accountable for their crimes - therefore, their punishment should take that into account.

Or is the case to be argued against it simply that every criminal has some sort of psychological imbalance, and therefore nobody would get the same sentence for the same crime, making consistency in the law impossible?

Under the eyes of many legal systems, a man who kills in cold blood is seen in a very similar way to a man who kills in self-defence. Is this right - ethically and/or morally?
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
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57,277
Valid point.



Okay, I'll clear it up. By medicate, I mean to take medication to manage it, so you are contained. It keeps you mellow, composed etc.

So purely drugs?

If it is based purely on drugs, I would say it isn't ethical to force people to medicate, even though they could turn out to be a risk to themselves or others.

Free will is a basic right earned by being born, and I am of the belief that forcing medication upon people causes more damage than it fixes - not so much physiologically, but psychologically.
 

Misanthrope

Moderator
Staff member
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47,627
Just to take your topic and steer it onto a slightly different course for one moment:

Exactly how much weight should the courts and legal system put into mental health and conditions of accused criminals?

I mean, a convicted paedophile is scum, but they clearly have some sort of psychological disorder which has made this person resort to acting the way they do, and while it mitigates the circumstances in a small way (just ask the relatives of the victims), exactly how much importance should be put on an accused and/or convicted criminal's state of mind at the time of the crime?

Using Rolf Harris as an example, he molested children, as that is abhorrent.

However, he must have some problems which moulded him into the man he is/was when he abused those children, and while it is not an excuse, can it really be ignored? Or can it really mitigate the circumstances to such a degree that his sentence should be shortened because of it?

A lot of legal systems now focus on rehabilitation rather than punishment; if a criminal has some psychological issue, causing them to lash out and behave inappropriately, they cannot really be completely of their own faculty, and as such, under the rule of law, cannot really be held completely accountable for their crimes - therefore, their punishment should take that into account.

Or is the case to be argued against it simply that every criminal has some sort of psychological imbalance, and therefore nobody would get the same sentence for the same crime, making consistency in the law impossible?

Under the eyes of many legal systems, a man who kills in cold blood is seen in a very similar way to a man who kills in self-defence. Is this right - ethically and/or morally?

I guess then it comes down to deciding what is a genuine mental illness (a chemical imbalance that alters behavior) and what is simply programming from childhood experiences.

A person doesn't choose either, mind, but only one of them is an actual medical condition. The other is just a result of upbringing and environment.
 

sensesmaybenumbed

Moderator
Staff member
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29,226
That being said though upbringing and environment has a huge effect on how mental illness can be expressed and the proportion of 'chemical imbalances'.

There's no easy answer to this one and each person deals with life stress and the like differently. We really could discuss this until the bovine life forms return to a central structure acting as their domicile without coming anywhere near a consensus.
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
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153,855
Let's start a topic of debate. If you have a mental health issue, do you think it should be compulsory to medicate it?

Interesting topic, but the problem is that mental health has so many levels and its not a black and white situation where some one is diagnosed.

On ABC news yesterday morning they had some shrink on saying that 1 in 5 youths in Australia suffer from mental health at some level. Some were minor and some needed professional help but the resources are just not available.

It made me think, is this a recent happening, or has it been around since Adam and Eve and everyone else managed to deal with it but now we have gone a bit soft and everyone needs professional help.

How many stories have we heard about 16-18 year old heading off to war to kill people and came home and lead a normal life, yet now days everyone gets therapy now when the return home.

Are we over doing it ?
 

Dani

Immortal
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33,719
Or was it just not spoken about?

What were the suicide rates back then compared to now?
 

whall15

Coach
Messages
15,871
It made me think, is this a recent happening, or has it been around since Adam and Eve and everyone else managed to deal with it but now we have gone a bit soft and everyone needs professional help.

Thousands of years of inbreeding makes it worse.
 

Misanthrope

Moderator
Staff member
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47,627
I think mental health is more 'prevalent' now because we're aware of it. Sociopaths used to spend their lives being soldiers or mercenaries, but these days there's less call for that. Others were probably just considered odd people or, if their issues were major, ended up homeless and died that way.

I also think that everybody is quick to blame issues on mental health; rather than being diagnosed, they Google until they find something that fits and just start calling themselves that. I was guilty of this when I was younger - thinking I had OCD because I enjoyed making lists. Every f**ker these days is ADD or ADHD, and everybody who is sad for 15 minutes consecutively tells people they're depressed.
 

sportive cupid

Referee
Messages
25,047
Or was it just not spoken about?

What were the suicide rates back then compared to now?

I think you might be partially right.

Or maybe not identified as a mental illness. Suicide, and especially attempted suicide , was way more a taboo subject in western society years ago .So if you could get away with not thinking about it you did.
 

Misanthrope

Moderator
Staff member
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47,627
I wrote a post for my site a few months back entitled 10 Things I Hate About Living in Australia.

It's getting daily hits lately for searches such as 'I hate Australia' and 'I hate Aussies'. About 70% of comments are agreeing in principle with the things I point out, 15% are agreeing in ways I didn't intend, and 15% are very, very angry with me :lol:

What do you dislike (hate is a strong word, but worked for getting hits) about the country you're living in?
 

Rhino_NQ

Immortal
Messages
33,050
support of national teams, so much of the population thiks "aussie x 3 oi x 3" is a perfectly acceptable to respons to anything thrown at us from opposition. At the cricket against the barmy army, socceroos games against nations where soccer is at the top it is cringeworthy
 

Joker's Wild

Coach
Messages
17,894
I wrote a post for my site a few months back entitled 10 Things I Hate About Living in Australia.

It's getting daily hits lately for searches such as 'I hate Australia' and 'I hate Aussies'. About 70% of comments are agreeing in principle with the things I point out, 15% are agreeing in ways I didn't intend, and 15% are very, very angry with me :lol:

What do you dislike (hate is a strong word, but worked for getting hits) about the country you're living in?

The fact we have to pay through the nose for things that are so cheap elsewhere. Clothing, alcohol, food, etc
 

Misanthrope

Moderator
Staff member
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47,627
The fact we have to pay through the nose for things that are so cheap elsewhere. Clothing, alcohol, food, etc

Yeah, cost of living was a big part of my list. I'm not looking forward to $80 train rides after getting much farther for much less here in China.
 

Rhino_NQ

Immortal
Messages
33,050
forever having "throw another shrimp on the barby" associated with being australian by stupid americans even though we call them prawns
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
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45,973
forever having "throw another shrimp on the barby" associated with being australian by stupid americans even though we call them prawns

when i was younger i heard that, so i pushed my little brother into our sister's barbie's dream home...

neither were impressed with me..
 
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