Ultrathread I: Thread of the Year - 2014

[Misanthrope]

For those who don't want to read my lengthy article. My ten things are:

10. Lack of street food
9. The image of masculinity and lack of mental health support.
8. Our current political situation
7. Our boring history
6. No career options (for me)
5. Australian girls
4. Lack of genuine patriotism (not Cronulla racism)
3. Expensive to travel within Australia
2. Cost of living
1. Racism

You can read the full 10 Reasons I Hate Living in Australia if you like. The comments section has a few pearlers.

 

[Apey]

I upvoted that ewqgwerg guy's post. I like the way ewqgwerg thinks!

 

[Misanthrope]

I upvoted that ewqgwerg guy's post. I like the way ewqgwerg thinks!

Was he the one who called me a 'looser' or a 'whitey bigot androtrop'?

 

[Scott Gourley's Lovechild]

Was he the one who called me a 'looser' or a 'whitey bigot androtrop'?

I believe the exact term was "white guilt lefty androtrop"

I LOL'd

 

[afinalsin666]

The patriotism point is a weird one. I'd say that is a good thing tbh, patriotism annoys me. Pretty sweet article, though i'd switch cost of living with racism. A pack of ciggers a dozen beers and a feed will run you a hundred plus. That's some ridiculous shit.

 

[Misanthrope]

I believe the exact term was "white guilt lefty androtrop"

I LOL'd

I laughed as well, although mostly at the irony of him throwing out hateful terms while calling somebody a bigot.

I'm also not sure what I said that was racist or bigoted :crazy:

The patriotism point is a weird one. I'd say that is a good thing tbh, patriotism annoys me. Pretty sweet article, though i'd switch cost of living with racism. A pack of ciggers a dozen beers and a feed will run you a hundred plus. That's some ridiculous shit.

I do think that over the top patriotism ('MURICA!) is a bad thing, but I think there's a happy medium that could be found. Not enough Aussies are proud to be Aussie and those who tend to be, are the Southern Cross tattoo having bogan types

 

[Drew-Sta]

I find patriotism one of those difficult to justify idea's. I like being Australian, I am glad I am Australian, but when Australia is doing some of the things we are doing today (Asylum seekers stuff, racism, destroying the GBR and the list goes on and on and on and on) I find it difficult to actually want to be known as Australian.

To me, I find my patriotism comes out when surrounded by other cultures who denounce Aussies or write them off; then, for some strange reason, a sense of Australia that seems more ingrained in the 60's to early 90's comes out rather than the modern 'feel' of it.

I realise I'm not articulating well but figured it was worth discussing.

 

[Bazal]

For those who don't want to read my lengthy article. My ten things are:

10. Lack of street food
9. The image of masculinity and lack of mental health support.
8. Our current political situation
7. Our boring history
6. No career options (for me)
5. Australian girls
4. Lack of genuine patriotism (not Cronulla racism)
3. Expensive to travel within Australia
2. Cost of living
1. Racism

You can read the full 10 Reasons I Hate Living in Australia if you like. The comments section has a few pearlers.

I appreciate the list is one that is specific to you, but in the interest of discussion...

10-Absolutely agree, and would go further and say the lack of genuine culture in general. What is uniquely Australian about our culture? There's not a hell of a lot that's interesting. We've absorbed a lot of great cultures, but they aren't necessarily expressed...

9-I think this is a bit of a stereotype rather than reality tbh. I think the image of a masculine working class man is mostly a thing of the past. I'm certainly glad I have a mental health issue in Australia. Sure, there are better countries for mental health care, but I've never had a problem finding good care when I needed it.

8-Mildly disagree. Not that I'm an Abbott fan, it's that I think politically we're still better off than most even with Mr Crazy in charge, and we can vote them out in the short term if required. So many people don't have that option. That said, practically all politicians are slime bags.

7-We're a very young country who has thankfully had a mostly peaceful history, and not been touched by either world war in the sense of having conflict on our shores. It might not be as interesting as other countries in the modern sense, but it's also incredibly interesting in the paleolithic sense IMO.

6-Can't comment really

5-I've never had an issue talking to, or otherwise enjoying the company, of Australian girls. I find it much like America...there are the ones who love themselves, and you can identify them quickly and move on to someone fun.

4-I feel like we focus our patriotism on sport, and I would say a lot of the perceived lack of patriotism is misguided. For me, Australia does have a history of genuine patriotism, of men and women fighting for their country particularly, even in conflicts that didn't really concern us. I personally see the majority of so called American patriotism (for example) as pure jingoism, and I wouldn't want Australia to go that way because that way lies more Cronulla riot-patriotism...

3-Agree, but I do understand why it costs what it does.

2-Agree, but I think it's a problem everywhere. You or I might find living in China cheap for example, but I don't think the Chinese do

1-I actually think this is really exaggerated in Australia. I encountered more racism in Asia and America than I ever have here. Koreans and the Taiwanese particularly. That said, it's a universal issue and tbh I think it's an exaggerated issue. It seems every little thing is racist if a white guy says it. I also think the classic Australian attitude of saying things how they are, and the laconic/ironic way we have, doesn't help the image

 

[Misanthrope]

I appreciate the list is one that is specific to you, but in the interest of discussion...

10-Absolutely agree, and would go further and say the lack of genuine culture in general. What is uniquely Australian about our culture? There's not a hell of a lot that's interesting. We've absorbed a lot of great cultures, but they aren't necessarily expressed...

It probably ties in with your point about our history. We're a very young nation and haven't had the necessary trying times (like a Civil War or even a war on our shores) or independence from the British to really develop our own holidays and traditions yet.

It might be that we're just too young for that ever to happen now. With the world so connected and western society become more and more homogenized, we might have started too late to really have a shot.

7-We're a very young country who has thankfully had a mostly peaceful history, and not been touched by either world war in the sense of having conflict on our shores. It might not be as interesting as other countries in the modern sense, but it's also incredibly interesting in the paleolithic sense IMO.

It's obviously going to come down to personal taste. I've always enjoyed medieval history and conflict history, and our history is (blessedly, for our sakes) light in that. Aboriginal history interests me about as much as watching a season of Sex & The City, and modern warfare has never engaged me the way ancient warfare did.

5-I've never had an issue talking to, or otherwise enjoying the company, of Australian girls. I find it much like America...there are the ones who love themselves, and you can identify them quickly and move on to someone fun.

Having interacted with so many cultures and interacted with Australians abroad, I just find (most) Australian girls to be quite high maintenance. There are obviously exceptions to the rule, and I've definitely found it's less of an issue in the country than it is in the cities.

4-I feel like we focus our patriotism on sport, and I would say a lot of the perceived lack of patriotism is misguided. For me, Australia does have a history of genuine patriotism, of men and women fighting for their country particularly, even in conflicts that didn't really concern us. I personally see the majority of so called American patriotism (for example) as pure jingoism, and I wouldn't want Australia to go that way because that way lies more Cronulla riot-patriotism...

To me it boils down to two relatively cosmetic things. There's a lack of pride in our anthem and flag - probably because they're both shit and not really reflective of Australia.

The second thing is that Australia Day just doesn't feel like it's a big deal. Between some people labeling it Invasion Day and just a general lack of fanfare compared to national days I've experienced in other countries, it just feels like there's a lack of genuine pride in just how luck we are.

1-I actually think this is really exaggerated in Australia. I encountered more racism in Asia and America than I ever have here. Koreans and the Taiwanese particularly. That said, it's a universal issue and tbh I think it's an exaggerated issue. It seems every little thing is racist if a white guy says it. I also think the classic Australian attitude of saying things how they are, and the laconic/ironic way we have, doesn't help the image

It's odd. I don't mind the casual, good-natured racism (although I'm told I should). It's more the rampant anti Muslim, anti immigrant shit that I can't stomach. The fact our current leader was basically elected on a campaign of 'foreigners are evil' speaks volumes for the mindset of Aussies these days.

 

[afinalsin666]

I don't understand taking pride over being Australian. We lucked out, why gloat about it? Humble is much better, because every Aussie knows how good we have it.

 

[Misanthrope]

I don't understand taking pride over being Australian. We lucked out, why gloat about it? Humble is much better, because every Aussie knows how good we have it.

Patriotism and pride influence ambition, though. Australia still acts like a little country, despite being in a position to be much more influential and successful than we are.

 

[Bazal]

It probably ties in with your point about our history. We're a very young nation and haven't had the necessary trying times (like a Civil War or even a war on our shores) or independence from the British to really develop our own holidays and traditions yet.

It might be that we're just too young for that ever to happen now. With the world so connected and western society become more and more homogenized, we might have started too late to really have a shot.

Possibly. But I do think we're a bit culturally bland for a nation containing so many different cultures.

It's obviously going to come down to personal taste. I've always enjoyed medieval history and conflict history, and our history is (blessedly, for our sakes) light in that. Aboriginal history interests me about as much as watching a season of Sex & The City, and modern warfare has never engaged me the way ancient warfare did.

Yeah fair enough.

Having interacted with so many cultures and interacted with Australians abroad, I just find (most) Australian girls to be quite high maintenance. There are obviously exceptions to the rule, and I've definitely found it's less of an issue in the country than it is in the cities.

I've never had that issue that I can think of. Maybe it's just the places I hang out though.

To me it boils down to two relatively cosmetic things. There's a lack of pride in our anthem and flag - probably because they're both shit and not really reflective of Australia.

The second thing is that Australia Day just doesn't feel like it's a big deal. Between some people labeling it Invasion Day and just a general lack of fanfare compared to national days I've experienced in other countries, it just feels like there's a lack of genuine pride in just how luck we are.

I like the flag, even with the union jack. The anthem, while not my favourite thing, isn't horrible. I think the fact that people belittle Australia Day doesn't help...I certainly remember it being a bigger deal when I was a kid

It's odd. I don't mind the casual, good-natured racism (although I'm told I should). It's more the rampant anti Muslim, anti immigrant shit that I can't stomach. The fact our current leader was basically elected on a campaign of 'foreigners are evil' speaks volumes for the mindset of Aussies these days.

Well firstly I think the Liberals could have had a policy of walking up to every single Australian and punching them in the dick and still won the election, because of the sheer and total incompetence they were pitted against. So I'm not sure the last comment is necessarily fair. I think the good natured thing is very important (and part of the reason other cultures think we're more racist than we are). We call redheads or fat blokes all sorts of names, but if I call a good mate a Western Oriental Gentleman I'm racist?

 

[whall15]

Australia is way too patriotic as it is, I'd hate to think how more racist we'd become if we became even more patriotic.

 

[Bazal]

Patriotism =/= jingoism. Common mistake

 

[Misanthrope]

I like the flag, even with the union jack. The anthem, while not my favourite thing, isn't horrible. I think the fact that people belittle Australia Day doesn't help...I certainly remember it being a bigger deal when I was a kid

Our flag doesn't bother me as much as our anthem, which is about as inspiring as Tibetan throat singing.

So I'm not sure the last comment is necessarily fair. I think the good natured thing is very important (and part of the reason other cultures think we're more racist than we are). We call redheads or fat blokes all sorts of names, but if I call a good mate a Western Oriental Gentleman I'm racist?

See, I'm on board with all of the above. I'm not on board with the rampant Islamaphobia that seems common (at least in the press) and the constant blaming of problems on Asians/Muslims/anybody not white that I see from the less educated of my FB friends/Four Corners posters.

Australia is way too patriotic as it is, I'd hate to think how more racist we'd become if we became even more patriotic.

That isn't patriotism. Patriotism is pride in a country, not a specific race and social class.

 

[whall15]

Patriotism =/= jingoism. Common mistake

Patriotism manifests itself as jingoism.

I look at this from my own philosophical perpective where I am not a big fan of the concept of a nation-state (I would distinctly prefer world government which we're a long way off) and my other view that patriotism is as irrational as religion as it's dictated by birth rather than rationality.

 

[Misanthrope]

Patriotism manifests itself as jingoism.

I look at this from my own philosophical perpective where I am not a big fan of the concept of a nation-state (I would distinctly prefer world government which we're a long way off) and my other view that patriotism is as irrational as religion as it's dictated by birth rather than rationality.

Oh God, the idea of world government is abhorrent to me. We aren't even managing to adequately represent people in our nation of 20 odd million. How on earth would we adequately represent billions of people with vastly different religious, social, and political ideologies?

Give me city states before world states.

 

[Bazal]

Patriotism manifests itself as jingoism.

I look at this from my own philosophical perpective where I am not a big fan of the concept of a nation-state (I would distinctly prefer world government which we're a long way off) and my other view that patriotism is as irrational as religion as it's dictated by birth rather than rationality.

Nope. Patriotism is the quiet bloke in the corner down at the pub who fought in WW2 and loves his country. Jingoism is just dumbass bogans using some twisted idea of national identity to excuse their dumbass bogan behaviour. There is nothing wrong with being proud of your country, in fact it's no more irrational that you supporting Parramatta

As for a world govt...well that just goes against the basic evolutionary mechanics of being human

 

[whall15]

Oh God, the idea of world government is abhorrent to me. We aren't even managing to adequately represent people in our nation of 20 odd million. How on earth would we adequately represent billions of people with vastly different religious, social, and political ideologies?

Give me city states before world states.

Well hopefully religion will eventually die off so that'd be one problem solved. I'd also like to hope that secular progressivism will eventually be seen as the superior culture and people will naturally gravitate to it.

 

[Misanthrope]

Well hopefully religion will eventually die off so that'd be one problem solved. I'd also like to hope that secular progressivism will eventually be seen as the superior culture and people will naturally gravitate to it.

Bazal's already struck on it a little in his reply. We aren't made to be in civilizations the size we're in now, so I dread to think how we'd function with a guy in Switzerland or Bahrain or South Korea making decisions for people all around the world.

You'll never completely do away with religion, especially when it's intrinsincly linked to cultures as it is in both Islam and Judaism.

Even if you somehow managed to eradicate religion (which is, in itself, an incredibly bigoted thing to aspire to), it would still be a nightmare. Different cultures have vastly different wants and needs. China can't even govern the multiple ethnic groups it has now fairly, nor do we manage it in Australia with considerably less variety in our mix.