Understanding the 2021 World Cup Qualifiers

[adamkungl]

Major events do not "get respect". They have to earn it. Substance is what counts, not window-dressing. The viewing public are not mugs. Give them something authentic, and you have a chance. Give them fluff, and you have no chance.


People who worry about blow-out scores, for example, need to understand that every major world wide event contains some competitors who are only there because of geography. The margin of victory, or loss, is not as important as the genuineness of the contests.


People who scoff at the RU World Cup because there are games that are hugely one-sided need to look at the apparent respect with which the event is treated in general terms. It is successful because it is willing to be genuinely representative (to the extent of the game's frontiers, that is).

I agree with you.
I'm not suggesting sticking fake teams in just to have the appearance of representing every continent.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

Major events do not "get respect". They have to earn it. Substance is what counts, not window-dressing. The viewing public are not mugs. Give them something authentic, and you have a chance. Give them fluff, and you have no chance.


People who worry about blow-out scores, for example, need to understand that every major world wide event contains some competitors who are only there because of geography. The margin of victory, or loss, is not as important as the genuineness of the contests.


People who scoff at the RU World Cup because there are games that are hugely one-sided need to look at the apparent respect with which the event is treated in general terms. It is successful because it is willing to be genuinely representative (to the extent of the game's frontiers, that is).

People weren't really scoffing, they were a bit peed off that in one sport a team with no real people from the nation get flogged, yet another gets flogged worse and they get respect because they competed. It's hypocritical that's all. I wouldn't care what others said if they treated all the same, but no, only one sport has to have everything as good as it can get before it will be accepted.

 

[IntRLEnthusiast]

I agree that there should be a place for an African and Asian team and in the future more but in order for that to happen there needs to be more development in these continents. We need to help these area's to develop in such a way that we don't talk about cricket scores when talking about them entering a world cup.

 

[adamkungl]

I agree that there should be a place for an African and Asian team and in the future more but in order for that to happen there needs to be more development in these continents. We need to help these area's to develop in such a way that we don't talk about cricket scores when talking about them entering a world cup.

I'd gladly take cricket scores if 60,000 people would show up anyway like in the Union WC.
If there are enough countries in a continent playing the game and have their operations up to RLIF membership standard, they should be given a chance to qualify, cricket score or not.

 

[jim_57]

I've mentioned before, but I wouldn't bet against some Asian dramatically improving in years to come on the back of heritage players, just look at the change in immigration patterns.

Hopefully any nation to really come on has the same progress at domestic level as well, there doesn't have to be one or the other.

 

[siv]

I agree that there should be a place for an African and Asian team and in the future more but in order for that to happen there needs to be more development in these continents. We need to help these area's to develop in such a way that we don't talk about cricket scores when talking about them entering a world cup.

Just look at Japan in RU

Kiwis ran 100 points in the first WC

Yet today they are grown on the back of their WC participation

I would have no issue fir Craig Wing turning out for Japan or the Philipines to help guide their development

 

[adamkungl]

Overall I think the 8 auto-qualifiers is the most disappointing part of this.
They've thrown away the opportunity (or maybe the inconvenience... ) to stage multiple series of meaningful, interesting test matches over 2 years, instead handing out walk-up starts and falling back to an awkward, confusing and lackluster playoff format that fails to showcase International Rugby League as expansively as it could.

What I'd give for the RLIF to have World Rugby's ambitions for the game.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

The worst thing about eight auto qualifiers is Scotland will probably walk in again while still not meeting the most basic of minimum standards.

 

[adamkungl]

The worst thing about eight auto qualifiers is Scotland will probably walk in again while still not meeting the most basic of minimum standards.

To make 2021 Scotland only have to beat Tonga. Win 1 game 4 years in advance. Bit of a laugh

 

[jim_57]

The worst thing about eight auto qualifiers is Scotland will probably walk in again while still not meeting the most basic of minimum standards.

Exactly, although we know they'd walk it in to the top 6/7 euro teams unless there is some major rise from outside the current best 6. Only the final 4 should be given auto qualification, the rest made to play it out.

 

[adamkungl]

FWIW, Union WC auto-qualifies 12 out of 20 teams, top 3 from each pool.

Taking that into account.. it's not that 8 auto-qualifiers is inherently bad, but it doesn't suit where RL is at right now.
No one except the top 3 are good enough to really by guaranteed a spot in 4 years, and it fails to encourage improvement in that time.

 

[adamkungl]

Thinking about this some more...
With the QF's being auto qualifiers, the confusing format is kind of forced due to the wild variability of results.

They aren't far off the best possible format, or maybe they've just explained it poorly.

It should be:

Europe 6 places
Asia-Pacific 6 places
Americas 2 places
MEA 1 place
Playoff series 1 place, featuring the runners up from each of the above 4.
IF either Asia-Pacific or Europe pre-qualifies the bare minumum in the 2017 QFs (2 for Asia-Pacific or 1 for Europe) there is a second Playoff spot up for grabs.

Instead of the flimsy maybe MEA gets a place, maybe theres a playoff, maybe there isnt thing that they've gone with.

 

[jim_57]

I'd still like to see the nations with the best domestic development to get "first bite" at a chance of qualifying. At least that minimizes the chance of PNG missing out to Cook Islands or France missing out to a heritage stacked Euro teams, however unlikely that is.

It would be more for a smaller tournament like an 8 team Intercontinental cup, guarantees you at least 1 developed nation from Euro and Pacific qualifies and all spots aren't taken by heritage teams like Scotland, Italy, Tonga etc. It does gives those heritage teams incentive to work on domestic development as well.

 

[Force]

I'd still like to see the nations with the best domestic development to get "first bite" at a chance of qualifying. At least that minimizes the chance of PNG missing out to Cook Islands or France missing out to a heritage stacked Euro teams, however unlikely that is.

It would be more for a smaller tournament like an 8 team Intercontinental cup, guarantees you at least 1 developed nation from Euro and Pacific qualifies and all spots aren't taken by heritage teams like Scotland, Italy, Tonga etc. It does gives those heritage teams incentive to work on domestic development as well.

Rugby League has been thriving in the Cook Islands for the past 3 decades at least.

 

[jim_57]

Rugby League has been thriving in the Cook Islands for the past 3 decades at least.

Cook Islands might have a better domestic scene than Tonga or Samoa but the size of the country means they'll never be able to produce more than a very rare homegrown player good enough to make the cut over heritage players.

PNG on the other hand have a population larger than NZ, NSW or QLD and have the potential to become another major player source.

I don't want to sounds like I'm picking on Cook Islands, I'd love to see them have regular internationals and systems in place for them to produce professional players if good enough. Frankly though I think PNG, Fiji, Wales and France should be given some reward for genuine development over teams who are happy or simply have to run with all heriatge players.

 

[Force]

The problem with some people is they draw too many parallels to the Rugby Union World Cup thinking they transfer favourably to the league version aswell. Yes the RWC got good crowds attending their minnow games but that was because their WC was organised better and their international game is stronger and has a further reach. The crowds at the 2013 RLWC for the smaller nations wasnt the best, OZ vs US (QF) attracted 5k, Wales vs Cook Is attracted 3K, OZ vs Ire was 5K, Scot v US 6K and so forth...

From my POV, a World Cup shouldn't be used or seen as a development phase as you can not do a lot in a month long tournament once every four years as development takes place at the grassroots level. What we need to do is play more International Games and cut back on the domestic seasons (NRL/SL) get these minnow teams up to a higher standard playing more often before throwing them in the deep end. Make them tour and play NSW/QLD cup/Country teams, bring them up through the Emerging Nations Cup which I would also like for it to be used as a World Cup qualifier as you'll have all the teams that missed out on the Proper World Cup attending. Hold the Emerging Nations WC inbetween the proper World Cup.

 

[Force]

Cook Islands might have a better domestic scene than Tonga or Samoa but the size of the country means they'll never be able to produce more than a very rare homegrown player good enough to make the cut over heritage players.

PNG on the other hand have a population larger than NZ, NSW or QLD and have the potential to become another major player source.

I don't want to sounds like I'm picking on Cook Islands, I'd love to see them have regular internationals and systems in place for them to produce professional players if good enough. Frankly though I think PNG, Fiji, Wales and France should be given some reward for genuine development over teams who are happy or simply have to run with all heriatge players.

Yes, their population size is what hampers them but I dont think they should be punished because of it as they have been actively playing league for some time now. I think its just them and PNG in the Pacific who have league as a leading sport. Fiji is starting to make strides but still far behind Union.

Heritage players is part and parcel of Rugby League given its still a minor sport in many Countries with only two professional leagues which is mainly filled with OZ,NZ,Eng,Fra players. It cant be helped now but hopefully in the near future it improves.

 

[adamkungl]

What we need to do is play more International Games and cut back on the domestic seasons (NRL/SL) get these minnow teams up to a higher standard playing more often before throwing them in the deep end.

Everyone in the International forum likely agrees with you on this.

What we don't agree with is giving Asia-Pacific an extra spot so an island with a smaller population than a medium sized Sydney suburb gets an easy qualification.

Aside from doing nothing to expand the value of the game or tournament due to their size, they aren't better than any of the other teams qualified, nor do they have more home grown players.

Likely by the time 2021 qualifiers roll around they'll have pretty tough competition.
If any of the current 6 Asia-Pacific nations don't auto-qualify they'll still have to beat them to get in (likely Tonga).
If there's a playoff, to get 7th in the region they'll have to beat Philippines.
Then beat Lebanon.
Or South Africa and Canada/Jamaica.

Pretty tough games all round, certainly not cricket scores in Cooks favour (Except maybe South Africa).

 

[jim_57]

Yes, their population size is what hampers them but I dont think they should be punished because of it as they have been actively playing league for some time now. I think its just them and PNG in the Pacific who have league as a leading sport. Fiji is starting to make strides but still far behind Union.

Heritage players is part and parcel of Rugby League given its still a minor sport in many Countries with only two professional leagues which is mainly filled with OZ,NZ,Eng,Fra players. It cant be helped now but hopefully in the near future it improves.

I don't think they should be punished, I just think nations producing players and with the most developed domestic scenes should be rewarded. This then gives other nations an incentive to earn their way to an easier way to qualify for big tournaments.

 

[adamkungl]

Not sure how they're being punished by having to be 6th best in their already over-represented region to qualify for a World Cup