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Unlucky?

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,379
1.) Did Melbourne and Penrith drop so many winnable games that they missed the finals?
You need to stop comparing us to bigger clubs or you’ll remain unhappy. We aren’t the Storm, the Panthers or the Broncos, so you shouldn’t expect comparable results. Just because we’re not a big club doesn’t mean we’re shit. We are in the middle.
2.) If you keep winning then you become favourites in some games you’d be underdogs in so that argument doesn’t always wash either.
Teams ‘keep winning’ because they are strong. They don’t get stronger because they are winning. Confidence is a fleeting thing. We’ve seen that after the Eels go on a run of wins and then suddenly cop a thirty point flogging.
3.) I don’t really have the data to make a good interpretation on why we win so many close games. If you’re in close games that you’re expected to win easily that’s not bad luck. That means you’re playing below your expectations.
And the top teams experience close wins all the time. Nobody is up every week. This is why I pointed out the entirety of our close results over the past decade, not just cherry picking games to suit a narrative.
4.) We couldn’t even manage “only 13 win”?
Most teams win fewer than that, every year. Are they all garbage and need to be blown up? Or just Parra?
5.) So every underdog that has ever beaten a better team did do because the favourites didn’t play to their best?
How else would they beat them? By giving 110%??!?!? Maybe the favourites should’ve given 110% as well ffs
6.) I’d say we were closer to our opposition than the Knights were to that 2013 Roosters side. 2021 was a huge missed opportunity. I don’t think the 2022 grand final reflected the best ability of our team. We were well below our best that night.
Yeah I think that was obvious. You can’t be up every week, especially after playing in the tropics. But we were great against the Raiders and Cowboys. We were even going well in Penrith in week one until we lost Moses.
7.) So the Dragons had a wealth of resources from inception until 2011 then they coincidentally dried up so Bennett left.
Clubs resources fluctuate over the decades. St George obviously aren’t the same club that won eleven straight titles. We aren’t the same club that won fewer than ten games per year between ‘08 and ‘18. Penrith began their current rise in 2012.
8.) It always comes down to resources-except when it doesn’t.
Over the long term it comes down to resources. In any one game luck plays a big part, over a season luck plays less of a role. Over a decade I think luck isn’t much of a factor. Do you see the difference?
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
153,336
In saying that it doesn't explain the Warriors lack of success.

Demographics maybe ?

How many Kiwis play for other NRL teams ? And how many would rather live in Australia than that rain and snow sodden place (sorry but I hate cold weather).

Kiwis in Kiwiland are probabaly more likely to play Union I guess.
 
Messages
11,812
You need to stop comparing us to bigger clubs or you’ll remain unhappy. We aren’t the Storm, the Panthers or the Broncos, so you shouldn’t expect comparable results. Just because we’re not a big club doesn’t mean we’re shit. We are in the middle.
Advice drawn from embarrassment in the high school changing rooms... but applicable to all aspects of life!
 

lucablight

First Grade
Messages
6,522
You need to stop comparing us to bigger clubs or you’ll remain unhappy. We aren’t the Storm, the Panthers or the Broncos, so you shouldn’t expect comparable results. Just because we’re not a big club doesn’t mean we’re shit. We are in the middle.

Teams ‘keep winning’ because they are strong. They don’t get stronger because they are winning. Confidence is a fleeting thing. We’ve seen that after the Eels go on a run of wins and then suddenly cop a thirty point flogging.

And the top teams experience close wins all the time. Nobody is up every week. This is why I pointed out the entirety of our close results over the past decade, not just cherry picking games to suit a narrative.

Most teams win fewer than that, every year. Are they all garbage and need to be blown up? Or just Parra?

How else would they beat them? By giving 110%??!?!? Maybe the favourites should’ve given 110% as well ffs

Yeah I think that was obvious. You can’t be up every week, especially after playing in the tropics. But we were great against the Raiders and Cowboys. We were even going well in Penrith in week one until we lost Moses.

Clubs resources fluctuate over the decades. St George obviously aren’t the same club that won eleven straight titles. We aren’t the same club that won fewer than ten games per year between ‘08 and ‘18. Penrith began their current rise in 2012.

Over the long term it comes down to resources. In any one game luck plays a big part, over a season luck plays less of a role. Over a decade I think luck isn’t much of a factor. Do you see the difference?
1.) I’m not sure what losing games were expected to win has to do with being a big or small club. It says more about the players and coaching staff at that moment in time.

2.) I never said they get stronger when they’re winning. I said if you keep winning you’re more likely to be favourites in subsequent matches. It’s called a form guide.

3.) Do the top teams miss out on the finals because they dropped games close games?

4.) I never said we needed to be blown up. I’m saying judging a team by absolute number of wins is a useless metric. Everything comes down to how you are ranked relative the the rest of the competition in that year.

5.) Redlining is a thing.

6.) Do you think we could have played better or was that the best we could have done after the match in the tropics?

7.) It’s a baseless claim to say the Dragons fall from their premiership days is purely down to resources. As I previously showed even the Roosters and Broncos (who never lost access to their resources) had down periods when they made poor recruitment decisions.

8.) No your conclusion is demonstrably false. I’ve always said how you utilise your resources is what counts. The Broncos haven’t won a competition for 17 years now. Does that mean they’ve lacked resources since then?
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,379
1.) I’m not sure what losing games were expected to win has to do with being a big or small club. It says more about the players and coaching staff at that moment in time.

2.) I never said they get stronger when they’re winning. I said if you keep winning you’re more likely to be favourites in subsequent matches. It’s called a form guide.

3.) Do the top teams miss out on the finals because they dropped games close games?

4.) I never said we needed to be blown up. I’m saying judging a team by absolute number of wins is a useless metric. Everything comes down to how you are ranked relative the the rest of the competition in that year.

5.) Redlining is a thing.

6.) Do you think we could have played better or was that the best we could have done after the match in the tropics?

7.) It’s a baseless claim to say the Dragons fall from their premiership days is purely down to resources. As I previously showed even the Roosters and Broncos (who never lost access to their resources) had down periods when they made poor recruitment decisions.

8.) No your conclusion is demonstrably false. I’ve always said how you utilise your resources is what counts. The Broncos haven’t won a competition for 17 years now. Does that mean they’ve lacked resources since then?
ffs

1. And what about winning games we’re expected to lose? It happens every year, just like unexpected losses.

2. Form is just an indicator of how close the team is to its potential. It can also be skewed by facing a string of stronger/weaker opponents.

3. No they don’t. There’s why they’re the top teams. I’d say the top (and bottom) teams have fewer close games than the teams in the middle.

4. You at least have some control over your number of wins. You have zero control over how many wins other teams get other than when you face them.

5. So what is redlining, in your opinion?

6. Who knows. Maybe we redlined against Canberra and the Cowboys?

7. I think all three of those clubs suffered from back ended contracts. That’s a better explanation than them suddenly making poor recruitment decisions. Clubs (recruitment staff) and player managers know how good the players are and what they’re worth. The difference in ‘decision making’ comes down to the ability of some clubs to get players cheaper under the cap than others, and how much risk some clubs are forced to take to remain competitive against the stronger clubs. From there clubs can engineer premiership windows by front loading or back ending contracts to maximise player talent in a given set of years and paying for it later.

8. Number of premierships is a poor metric because it lacks granularity. Over a period as short as 17 years it is meaningless unless a club has won 2+ premierships in that time, in which case it shows an obvious advantage. But winning 0 or 1 premierships in 17 years tells us f**k all other than that a club isn’t dominant.

8a. As for the Broncos, they obviously have fewer resources than they did pre-2006, at least relative to the opposition. They were once the dominant club in the NSWRL/NRL. Now they’re not. You can put it down to the loss of Bennett but he has hardly won anything since 2006 either. But it’s fair to say the Broncos are on the rise while Wayne Bennett isn’t. I think it’s obvious they’ve had an injection of resources in the past five years. Remember when they were shit but still managed to keep all their stars? Very suspicious indeed.
 
Messages
11,812
I think this factual article about #resources belongs in this Pou thread... Eels are 5th in the league in terms of both revenue and profit margins (probably 6th, as Broncos figures aren't included).

Shoots down the fake excuse that the reason we weren't making the top 8 was our "poor resources". What a f**king clown you've been on here Pou....

1717118811983.png

 

emjaycee

Coach
Messages
13,826
I think this factual article about #resources belongs in this Pou thread... Eels are 5th in the league in terms of both revenue and profit margins (probably 6th, as Broncos figures aren't included).

Shoots down the fake excuse that the reason we weren't making the top 8 was our "poor resources". What a f**king clown you've been on here Pou....

View attachment 88899

Maybe 7th seeing Melbourne's figures aren't included either.

Based on these numbers we definitely underperformed on the field last year (and this year-to-date), but I guess without knowing just how the stated profits were put back into the club and used, we wouldn't know the benefits of the revenue and profit levels. If the money is being invested in juniors it would take longer to realise the benefit and given there is a "soft-cap" for football operations, having smart ways to quickly spend any surplus and achieve an immediate benefit is critical.

One thing that stands out for me is that the Roosters with a pretty average revenue and the highest profit margin are able to still be a well-resourced organisation. There must be revenue coming in some way that isn't included in these numbers.
 

Gazzamatta

Coach
Messages
15,646
Maybe 7th seeing Melbourne's figures aren't included either.

Based on these numbers we definitely underperformed on the field last year (and this year-to-date), but I guess without knowing just how the stated profits were put back into the club and used, we wouldn't know the benefits of the revenue and profit levels. If the money is being invested in juniors it would take longer to realise the benefit and given there is a "soft-cap" for football operations, having smart ways to quickly spend any surplus and achieve an immediate benefit is critical.

One thing that stands out for me is that the Roosters with a pretty average revenue and the highest profit margin are able to still be a well-resourced organisation. There must be revenue coming in some way that isn't included in these numbers.
I think we spent heaps on the "Parras in the Tunnel" signs and Go Go dancers.
 
Messages
11,812
One thing that stands out for me is that the Roosters with a pretty average revenue and the highest profit margin are able to still be a well-resourced organisation. There must be revenue coming in some way that isn't included in these numbers.
Big (and unsourced) accusation there. But I think you answered your own question - highest profit margin means they're spending the revenue more wisely than others.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,379
Maybe 7th seeing Melbourne's figures aren't included either.

Based on these numbers we definitely underperformed on the field last year (and this year-to-date), but I guess without knowing just how the stated profits were put back into the club and used, we wouldn't know the benefits of the revenue and profit levels. If the money is being invested in juniors it would take longer to realise the benefit and given there is a "soft-cap" for football operations, having smart ways to quickly spend any surplus and achieve an immediate benefit is critical.
I think it just shows we should make the finals more often than not, and since 2019 we have. Last year we were unlucky (and still won half our games) and this year is just the end of the premiership window. Nearly every club has seasons like this one. It just shows we're not immune to poor seasons, but who isn't other than Melbourne?

Only a f**ken idiot would think the fifth-to-seventh wealthiest club (on paper) should never miss the finals.
One thing that stands out for me is that the Roosters with a pretty average revenue and the highest profit margin are able to still be a well-resourced organisation. There must be revenue coming in some way that isn't included in these numbers.
They're just 'well run' mate. We should see if Politis wants a seat on our board. The revenue chart also shows why Bennett ended up at the Dolphins, and chose Souths over us.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,379
Parramatta chief executive Jim Sarantinos said their result allowed them to reinvest funds into the club’s football program.

“Quite a number of years ago we were much lower down the list,” he said.

“Our club has improved a hell of a lot. The move to CommBank Stadium has helped because of the experience we can provide to members, fans and corporate partners. The club having a better period of football, than has been the case historically, over a period of three or four years helps a lot, particularly in terms of bringing on corporate partners and the like.

“The most important part is the more money we generate, the more we can invest back into our football program.”
Explains why we've been so much better since 2019. I suspected we were growing as a club and this proves it. Now if only we could get some resources the NRL can't poke their noses into.
 
Messages
11,812
Explains why we've been so much better since 2019. I suspected we were growing as a club and this proves it.
But your rhetoric/excuse on here when Arthur was losing in 2023-2024 (compared to 2022) was that we are a small resource club?

Are you flip-flopping again? 😂
fun alice GIF by Marius Sperlich
 

Delboy

First Grade
Messages
7,550
Roosters with a less than stellar revenue base, easily assemble the most expansive roster , and are never questioned ( or possibly seriously audited) by those in change at the NRL. Must help having the HQ of Roosters and the NRL basically next door to each other.

When the on air commentators of both radio and tv are basically filled with just retired Roosters players almost exclusively, and possibly other off balance sheet advantages we really need to access Western Sydney businesses more resourcefully.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,379
But your rhetoric/excuse on here when Arthur was losing in 2023-2024 (compared to 2022) was that we are a small resource club?
You know that's not true. I never claimed we were rich when we won and broke when we lost. That's a moronic (or bad faith) interpretation of my point. Even rich clubs have bad luck and poor clubs get good luck. Likewise we have both good and bad luck, and it manifests as grand final appearances (sometimes) and missing the finals (other times). Resources determine the ratios of each, and in any given year luck plays its part.

And so I don't need to repeat myself, this quote is going in my sig so you can read it every time before you click the troll button. Enjoy.
 

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