vs Roosters

[JJ]

For me this highlights the warriors struggles more than anything, always had potential but would never have been developed like that if he stayed. Makes me wonder what Mutts could be if he went to a team like the roosters.

Yeah, exactly - Matulino has been hindered... I know RTS wants to be in Auckland, but why leave that environment for ours, weird... he could be the game's best player, but I don't see that happening in the Warriors without some profound changes. I am now firmly of the view that McFadden as a coach mirrors McFadden as a player... coaching instability isn't great, but we seriously need someone good

 

[Philip_Smith007]

We were down to two interchanges with no hooker and a reshuffled backline remember- I'm not going to hang shit on SJ for that one.

Not really trying to hang shit on him, under normal circumstances I am all for it, if in control of the game and you think you can defend a mistake out of the attacking team.

Cappys call of a winger on the bench huge, even tho Havalli may have come on and misses a tackled up the middle to let in a try, the complete reshuffle of the spine was an issue as well.

Is our drop off caused by fitness, mentality or both?

 

[Skinner]

Can't really argue with this suggestion but sacking another coach wouldn't be a very good look for us

Yeah, I don't think that sacking the coach is the answer here. You just can't keep on firing coaching staff, left, right and centre, and expect to win premierships.

Admittedly from something of a distance, the incumbent with the caps really has to be given quite a bit more time at the helm before those type of decisions are made.

I think any calls for Bellamy to step forward are very early and I struggle with the common sense or lack thereof behind it. That would apply to any coach who has been mentioned as well.

 

[Philip_Smith007]

Yeah, I don't think that sacking the coach is the answer here. You just can't keep on firing coaching staff, left, right and centre, and expect to win premierships.

Admittedly from something of a distance, the incumbent with the caps really has to be given quite a bit more time at the helm before those type of decisions are made.

I think any calls for Bellamy to step forward are very early and I struggle with the common sense or lack thereof behind it. That would apply to any coach who has been mentioned as well.

So if Toovey became available we don't make a play for him?
When Bellamy finishes up in 2016 we don't try to tempt him over?
I'm talking more about replacing a coach, not sacking with no one signed sealed and delivered.

 

[JJ]

Yeah, I don't think that sacking the coach is the answer here. You just can't keep on firing coaching staff, left, right and centre, and expect to win premierships.

.

No, I agree - except that signing Elliott and then McFadden was geniused - one was a proven numptie and the other unproven - we have a basket-case roster of error prone potentially good players... nothing McFadden has done has suggested he's the man...

Kind of frustrating that people want to use Wright as a scapegoat - he's a numptie too, but had done more than could be expected at this level - key errors by (among others) Kata, Tui, Manu etc cost us dearly - next week it's just as likely to be Maumolo, Konnie and Kata - it's just endless. Giving away tries (or nearly) every week from dummy half, an inability to defend individually (aside from a few obvious exceptions) or as a team... just disheartening imo

And then people here are suggesting Taylor and Sandow might be considered :sarcasm: and Gallen/Nightingale are/were not good options FFS

:lol: yeah, I am frustrated

 

[JJ]

So if Toovey became available we don't make a play for him?
When Bellamy finishes up in 2016 we don't try to tempt him over?
I'm talking more about replacing a coach, not sacking with no one signed sealed and delivered.

We should try for both - or any coach with a proven record of success in the NRL...

 

[Rennie]

Anyone know how many minutes Gubb played? Can't remember seeing too much of him. injury or not fit/trusted? If the latter it's a poor selection I would have much rather have seen peteru get a go. too bad we didn't have am experienced prop as cover like matagi.

 

[vvvrulz]

Just the usual story since the Bluey era, a fantastic first half before we went full genius.
The Roosters were cooked but we just let them slide back in and take the win with our stupidity.

Nice to see our average/dependably poor/safe hooker show us he's light years better than Havili and Super Leuluai. Friend is no superstar but at least he offers something useful and plays like he gives a f*ck.

That Wright drop is tragic, but as many have pointed out we were already on the way down with a string of ridiculous plays (the holding down penalty and Bodene/Chad letting Maloney straight through stick out). SJ being content to just boot away the ball into touch was strange too, that's a tactic for a >6 point least.

Frustrating but typical performance.

 

[Fast Eddie]

Nice to see our average/dependably poor/safe hooker show us he's light years better than Havili and Super Leuluai. Friend is no superstar but at least he offers something useful and plays like he gives a f*ck.

:lol:

EDIT: Better add in a reasoning, it seems you base your judgement on dummyhalf importance or skill level on the frequency they run from dummyhalf.

 

[Alan Johnson]

It's getting to the point that the Warriors suckiness is affecting my enjoyment of neutral games. I'll be enjoying a game on a Sunday afternoon, sipping at a beer, dinner in the oven, and then a little voice in my head pipes up and reminds me of last night's horror show and kills my buzz.

 

[MKEB...]

I am finding as a Warriors fan, my bias is becoming less and I am able to respect how well other teams are playing against us, and appreciate things they are doing well, and when we are getting the rub of the green.

 

[vvvrulz]

:lol:

EDIT: Better add in a reasoning, it seems you base your judgement on dummyhalf importance or skill level on the frequency they run from dummyhalf.

:lol:

Yeah he made a couple of good runs out of dummy half, showed urgency in his passing game and service was generally reliable and quick, got through a high work rate in tackling. And like I said his attitude and commitment is so far ahead of Havili it's not even funny. Missed a few tackles but can live with that, he's not an elite but it's the best we've got by far.

Find me a better hooking performance all season, maybe Leuluai once early on?

But hey, hating on Friend is your new flavour of the month so whatever.

Your argument about TL = world class hooker was pretty convincing too.

 

[Fast Eddie]

:lol:

Yeah he made a couple of good runs out of dummy half, showed urgency in his passing game and service was generally reliable and quick, got through a high work rate in tackling. And like I said his attitude and commitment is so far ahead of Havili it's not even funny. Missed a few tackles but can live with that, he's not an elite but it's the best we've got by far.

Find me a better hooking performance all season, maybe Leuluai once early on?

But hey, hating on Friend is your new flavour of the month so whatever.

Your argument about TL = world class hooker was pretty convincing too.

I just thought it was funny you said he was light years ahead, thats all, not sure anyone who watches the games regularly could make that claim, and a number of different coaches would seem to disagree also. Stats wise and eye test wise I would completely disagree. The only thing I would possibly give him over Leuluai is that he isn't shy to run, they are on average less effective runs but anyway. Each to their own.

 

[jaseg]

Cappys call of a winger on the bench huge, even tho Havalli may have come on and misses a tackled up the middle to let in a try, the complete reshuffle of the spine was an issue as well.

Doesn't make sense to me - Havili has an NRL career effective tackle rate of 95.4% (that's really good even for hookers.. who usually have the best ET%). The chance of Havili missing a tackle up the middle compared to the chance of Wright dropping the ball (or another error creeping in due to a major spine re-shuffle) isn't comparable. Wright on the bench was a ridiculous move.

And then people here are suggesting Taylor and Sandow might be considered :sarcasm: and Gallen/Nightingale are/were not good options FFS

:lol: yeah, I am frustrated

:lol::lol: This place throws up some amazing comments that way.

Yeah he made a couple of good runs out of dummy half, showed urgency in his passing game and service was generally reliable and quick, got through a high work rate in tackling. And like I said his attitude and commitment is so far ahead of Havili it's not even funny. Missed a few tackles but can live with that, he's not an elite but it's the best we've got by far.

Find me a better hooking performance all season, maybe Leuluai once early on?

But hey, hating on Friend is your new flavour of the month so whatever.

Your argument about TL = world class hooker was pretty convincing too.

Straw man alert (RE TL=world class hooker 'argument'). Beyond that, Friend had a pretty good game.. yet I clearly recall the time when he didn't run much and everyone had a go at him for it.. if he can change the amount he runs from DH, so can Havili - and Havili is clearly better at it, when he does run. Havili is also so much better in defense it isn't funny (fewer 3rd man in efforts, more dominant tackles, some great covering tackle efforts that people here seem bizarrely blind to) - high raw tackle numbers mean very little without the proper context (and FYI, Havili makes only slightly less tackles per minute on the field than Friend :lol. The 'attitude' and 'commitment' arguments... sorry, but where's the evidence for either?

Havili isn't brilliant, nor is Leuluai - but the idea that Friend is any better than either of them is just plain weird to me.

 

[jaseg]

Sorry, just actually bothered to bring up the numbers to double check - I was wrong that Havili makes slightly less tackles per minute on the field... he actually makes slightly (a TINY amount) more.

Tackles per 80 minutes
Friend = 45.17
Havili = 45.22

Annnd their respective effective tackle rates:
Friend = 88.9%
Havili = 95.4%

Not bad for a dude with commitment and attitude issues :roll:

 

[JJ]

Sorry, just actually bothered to bring up the numbers to double check - I was wrong that Havili makes slightly less tackles per minute on the field... he actually makes slightly (a TINY amount) more.

Tackles per 80 minutes
Friend = 45.17
Havili = 45.22

Annnd their respective effective tackle rates:
Friend = 88.9%
Havili = 95.4%

Not bad for a dude with commitment and attitude issues :roll:

That this season, or career? Havili has only ever played short minutes, whereas Friend remains an 80 min hooker...

Havili just isn't very good to my eye - not sure if it's attitude, loss of confidence, or what. Never understood the Friend off the bench stuff, he either plays or is not in the 17 for mine - and while hel wasn't perfect, I have seen no evidence that TL or Havili can play as well as he did yesterday...

That said, it was dumb arse dropsies and missed tackles by backs and Bodene that were more costly... the pack has generally done the business this year

I say it again, the brain farts by Kata and Tui just before half time started it... Manu, Townsend/Bodene, Seb, Johnson, and finally Wright just joined in

 

[vvvrulz]

I just thought it was funny you said he was light years ahead, thats all, not sure anyone who watches the games regularly could make that claim, and a number of different coaches would seem to disagree also. Stats wise and eye test wise I would completely disagree. The only thing I would possibly give him over Leuluai is that he isn't shy to run, they are on average less effective runs but anyway. Each to their own.

Exaggeration? Yeah maybe.

The only point I am making is that Friend is the best we've got among a pretty crappy supply.

 

[vvvrulz]

Sorry, just actually bothered to bring up the numbers to double check - I was wrong that Havili makes slightly less tackles per minute on the field... he actually makes slightly (a TINY amount) more.

Tackles per 80 minutes
Friend = 45.17
Havili = 45.22

Annnd their respective effective tackle rates:
Friend = 88.9%
Havili = 95.4%

Not bad for a dude with commitment and attitude issues :roll:

Havili has had a tiny career, you can hardly point to numbers to compare the two.

I quite liked his potential when he started out, but this season every time he's got on the park it's been sfa from him. Yeah I'm basing that on what I see, Friend always shows plenty of urgency and isn't shy to get stuck in and to be fair so does Leuluai. Havili looked tired and bored rather than a guy fighting for the jersey.

All three of them aren't great but Friend has delivered more than the other two looking at past performances.

 

[jaseg]

Yes, Havili hasn't had many minutes so the sample size is not great. Yes, that does make this a hard comparison, and yes there is a slight boost to be expected for lower minutes/game players (yet Friend has also played through the peak of his career while Havili has barely scratched the surface of what he could be - reverse effect on those numbers) - but there the point I am making is this.. there is no evidence for these commitment issues, the guy has a high work rate on the field - actually higher than Friend.

Frankly, it's criminal that given those early numbers he hasn't had much more of an opportunity to expand on that - because those are seriously promising (not just defensive numbers either - but yeah, statistically with what we have to work with of his NRL minutes he is our best defender in that position and among the best at the club).

Those are career numbers while playing at hooker for both players - I'll pull together all the applicable stuff for those 2 plus TL and Issac Luke for a whole comparison, since I'm bored and not doing much right now

 

[JJ]

Yes, Havili hasn't had many minutes so the sample size is not great. Yes, that does make this a hard comparison, and yes there is a slight boost to be expected for lower minutes/game players (yet Friend has also played through the peak of his career while Havili has barely scratched the surface of what he could be - reverse effect on those numbers) - but there the point I am making is this.. there is no evidence for these commitment issues, the guy has a high work rate on the field - actually higher than Friend.

Frankly, it's criminal that given those early numbers he hasn't had much more of an opportunity to expand on that - because those are seriously promising (not just defensive numbers either - but yeah, statistically with what we have to work with of his NRL minutes he is our best defender in that position and among the best at the club).

Those are career numbers while playing at hooker for both players - I'll pull together all the applicable stuff for those 2 plus TL and Issac Luke for a whole comparison, since I'm bored and not doing much right now

Sorry, not sure how comparing someone who plays in short bursts against someone who's been a 80 min player most of his career makes any sense... if the interchange player didn't do "more per minute" he'd be an embarrassment

I'm not getting the Friend hate - he's an honest hooker, past his best but not disgraceful by any means... this season he's been used in a role hiss's patently unsuited to (I'm over the coaching team tbh, happy to conclude they're poor) - given the start and the majority of the minutes, to me he demonstrated he's still ok... Havili should have been on the bench - but he's not first grade standard atm