vs Roosters

[jaseg]

I'll cut out the smaller small and just focus on overall figures (didn't bother cutting out the 3 games Issac Luke has played in the halves, it's 3 out of 181 so won't skew), there are career figures at hooker:

What the numbers mean (from left-> right) - everything is per 80 minutes unless otherwise stated:
TALbA = Tries, Linebreaks and Assists
EPC = Errors & Penalties Conceded
TbOff = Tackle Breaks & Offloads
mtr80 = Metres
run80 = Runs
mtr/run = Meters per Run
tk80 = Tackles
et% = Overall Effective Tackle %

Quick observations:
Leuluai & Luke are very different hookers (opposite ends of the spectrum compared to each other, with the other two looking more moderate). I would suggest that is a recipe for a very effective rotation, as we have seen in Kiwis matches - Luke keeps us rolling up field and creates off the back of his running game, while Leuluai provides a threat more with his pass selection from DH, and takes less risks. Luke's effective tackle numbers are disappointing for his position, although we know from watching him that he is (probably a little ahead of Leuluai) the most aggressive/dominant tackler of the group. Havili tends towards Luke, Friend tends towards Leuluai - but both are somewhere in between and neither are quite as effective. Finally, Friend comes off looking like a placeholder and not much more.

 

[Cold Roses]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league...an-still-make-nrl-top-four-says-chad-townsend

Warriors coach Andrew McFadden wasn't too downhearted in the post-match press conference, preferring to focus on the big improvement compared to the Rabbitohs defeat.

Likewise, Townsend said he pleased with the lift in performance.

"I thought we were miles better this week in terms of game plan, completion rates, kicking game," he said.

"They were all areas that we improved on this week compared to last week"



That's the spirit mate. You lost in a better fashion than you did last week. Kudos.

 

[jaseg]

Sorry, not sure how comparing someone who plays in short bursts against someone who's been a 80 min player most of his career makes any sense... if the interchange player didn't do "more per minute" he'd be an embarrassment

I'm not getting the Friend hate - he's an honest hooker, past his best but not disgraceful by any means... this season he's been used in a role hiss's patently unsuited to (I'm over the coaching team tbh, happy to conclude they're poor) - given the start and the majority of the minutes, to me he demonstrated he's still ok... Havili should have been on the bench - but he's not first grade standard atm

Well, let's put it this way - a guy at the start of his career is going to tend towards lower figures when compared to a guy in the middle or at the end of his career, because those early stats will not include his 'peak' years. So while yes, your point about limited minute players is a valid one - there is a counter point about Havili's stats not accurately measuring his future output, while Friend's stats will almost certainly overestimate his future output.

I don't hate Friend - I just don't see why Havili is being left out of the side. Friend is not clearly better, and at 34 (35 before the start of next season) with Issac Luke incoming his expiry date is fast approaching. It makes very little sense - Havili makes an impact. Friend can start, fine, I'm happy with that - but Havili if available should be getting 30ish minutes off the bench.. because there is value to be had in doing so.

 

[vvvrulz]

Finally, Friend comes off looking like a placeholder and not much more.

Good stuff pulling that together.

Luke is ahead of all of them clearly, and the other three all are place-holders as far as I'm concerned.

Friend fine but ageing, Havili unproven but unimpressive this year, Leuluai nothing special.
I'd pick Friend of what we've got, that's all I'm saying.

 

[MKEB...]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league...an-still-make-nrl-top-four-says-chad-townsend

Warriors coach Andrew McFadden wasn't too downhearted in the post-match press conference, preferring to focus on the big improvement compared to the Rabbitohs defeat.

Likewise, Townsend said he pleased with the lift in performance.

"I thought we were miles better this week in terms of game plan, completion rates, kicking game," he said.

"They were all areas that we improved on this week compared to last week"



That's the spirit mate. You lost in a better fashion than you did last week. Kudos.

Succinct bro, I read the same thing into that.

 

[vvvrulz]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league...an-still-make-nrl-top-four-says-chad-townsend

Warriors coach Andrew McFadden wasn't too downhearted in the post-match press conference, preferring to focus on the big improvement compared to the Rabbitohs defeat.

:lol: lmfao

Cheers coach!

I'm all for positive talk, but that's just bloody delusional.
Unless we really sensationally shoot up a gear we aren't even making the eight, we're miles behind top four based on yesterday.

 

[JJ]

Good stuff pulling that together.

Luke is ahead of all of them clearly, and the other three all are place-holders as far as I'm concerned.

Friend fine but ageing, Havili unproven but unimpressive this year, Leuluai nothing special.
I'd pick Friend of what we've got, that's all I'm saying.

I agree

And McFadden, WTF?

 

[jaseg]

Good stuff pulling that together.

Luke is ahead of all of them clearly, and the other three all are place-holders as far as I'm concerned.

Friend fine but ageing, Havili unproven but unimpressive this year, Leuluai nothing special.
I'd pick Friend of what we've got, that's all I'm saying.

Oh Luke is clearly the guy you want playing lots of minutes for sure, the way he keeps opposition teams on the back foot is quite remarkable - but I wouldn't underestimate Leuluai, those numbers are actually pretty good (the 'shape' of his stats makes him look a bit like Robbie Farah - suggesting he plays in a similar style if not the same effectiveness, as Farah outstrips him in every regard) - better or equal to a lot of starting NRL hookers. He doesn't run enough when playing longer minutes but is effective when he does run, something that suits a guy coming to play 25ish minutes a game (with a clear mandate to run whenever it is available).

Havili I'm loath to write off because of his youth - those are good 'young guy' (player with less than 1000 minutes) figures. He's a promising option next year as a backup / competition for the bench hooking role.. unfortunately as each week passes I have less and less confidence in the coaching staff to make the right decisions and get the value out of our roster.

As for this year, I'm happy with Friend playing (and starting) - but not with him playing 80 minutes. That's just not making the best use out of what we have at the club.

 

[JJ]

Now we're agreeing - all along I'd have had Friend starting and TL from the bench - Friend doesn't offer much impact from the bench, whereas on shorter minutes in theory TL does

Havili needs to prove he's a first grade hooker - I liked the team named with Tui on the bench - but once the Pom was out it was bemusing that Havili, or even someone like Lino wasn't on the bench - even if he was only going to get time to cover an injury - that could have been all Wright was there for - again, as with all season, I am looking at McFadden thinking WTF

 

[Rich102]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league...an-still-make-nrl-top-four-says-chad-townsend

Warriors coach Andrew McFadden wasn't too downhearted in the post-match press conference, preferring to focus on the big improvement compared to the Rabbitohs defeat.

Likewise, Townsend said he pleased with the lift in performance.

"I thought we were miles better this week in terms of game plan, completion rates, kicking game," he said.

"They were all areas that we improved on this week compared to last week"



That's the spirit mate. You lost in a better fashion than you did last week. Kudos.

They will probably be "thrilled" to finish in 12th place.

 

[Benek]

Does anyone know stats on second half performances? I'd wager we have the worst for/against in the comp in a second half. I don't think we've won a second half all year have we? It's getting so tiring as a fan know we need to be up at least three tries at half time to have a chance.

 

[ozbash]

Does anyone know stats on second half performances? I'd wager we have the worst for/against in the comp in a second half. I don't think we've won a second half all year have we? It's getting so tiring as a fan know we need to be up at least three tries at half time to have a chance.

just watched again andour 2 wings and Kata would have made the most tackles/metres in the 2 nd half..
Is this a new policy ?

Whats with SJ's touch finders in the 2nd halves of the last few games ?

 

[Blair]

I agree

And McFadden, WTF?

It's someone putting a positive spin on things as he's worried about his job.

 

[Sanchez]

I cant believe we had that much possession in the 1st, and went into the 2nd half flush with 9 interchange remaining and still looked that pitifully tired

 

[jaseg]

Does anyone know stats on second half performances? I'd wager we have the worst for/against in the comp in a second half. I don't think we've won a second half all year have we? It's getting so tiring as a fan know we need to be up at least three tries at half time to have a chance.

I'm not doing for/against (because my team stats db is shoddy at best and I just don't have time / unwilling to commit the time to get it up to standard), but we've out of 13 games in the second half I believe we have drawn 0, won 4 and lost 9 for a win rate of 30.8% - very likely the worst in the NRL.

Joy.

And judging from this week's game at least it isn't physical fitness letting us down, but the same old mental issues that became a real problem in 2012 (there is no way we should have been tired out after that first half).

 

[Philip_Smith007]

Doesn't make sense to me - Havili has an NRL career effective tackle rate of 95.4% (that's really good even for hookers.. who usually have the best ET%). The chance of Havili missing a tackle up the middle compared to the chance of Wright dropping the ball (or another error creeping in due to a major spine re-shuffle) isn't comparable. Wright on the bench was a ridiculous move.

Agree Wright was a dumb move on the bench as my original post alluded too.
But we can never know what would of happened......

 

[The Pa Kid]

Agree Wright was a dumb move on the bench as my original post alluded too.
But we can never know what would of happened......

Yes that was hard to fathom. I, like you wondered how Cappy was going to use Wright off the bench. If he was to get some game time then wing or centre was my thinking giving Hurrell a rest. But to use him as cover for hooker belies his selections last week. (Havilli?).
Wrights entrance into the game had a profound affect. Tui shifting up in the line changed the defence on the left. He became ineffectual more than likely caused by not training there. Chad defending in the middle missed the tackle on Maloney again more than likely not practiced in defending there and Wright dropping the ball when it HAD to be caught.
So again is it poor coaching or poor selection.