WA BEARS

[wb2027]

Depends on the brand, under 35s are hardly pining for Betamax.

No well Betamax isn't a brand, it's an obsolete recording format.

I'm specifically referring to the fact that relevant outlets like Culture Kings and Stateside Sports are supplying retro NRL more than current NRL merchandise, even though their bread & butter is mostly US sporting merchandise.

 

[reanimate]

Some obvious points here, some is pure revisionism.
Go to any NSW Cup game and the allegiance has been passed down. Contrary to one recurring joke in this forum, it's not just a few old guys on the hill wishing it was the old days.


Nothing of today is the anything of 1999. Any old Bears fans who sold up and moved away have more convenient access to watch NRL now than they ever have.

It’s purely wishful thinking to suggest that the Bears have been able to generate support in younger generations anywhere close to any of the Sydney NRL teams. There’s a few kids in the crowd that go to a Bears’ NSW Cup game? Great, that’s not translating to a large supporter base in younger generations though.

 

[Matt_CBY]

It’s purely wishful thinking to suggest that the Bears have been able to generate support in younger generations anywhere close to any of the Sydney NRL teams. There’s a few kids in the crowd that go to a Bears’ NSW Cup game? Great, that’s not translating to a large supporter base in younger generations though.

Lol

 

[titoelcolombiano]

So the bid fell significantly short. Fair enough. Then why not just move to the other bids before going back to a bid that fell significantly short, or were the other bids even worse?

I'd say the location was something the NRL was keen on due to the size of the city and government support on offer

 

[titoelcolombiano]

So if the fee is for security you don't put 'pay what you want' in a tender. You nominate a dollar figure you want as security.

It's also called a bid. Consider it like an auction. As we are seeing now, Cummins wasn't the NRL's only option in WA

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Given the ALRC did not nominate a figure in the bid document that they wanted as security, each bidder had to undertake an internal risk assessment of their bid and then nominate a dollar figure as security?

Yes because Dolphins as an example are less risky a prospect than Perth. The licence fee and financials outplayed in the bid would have been the NRL assessing what each bid can bring to the table

 

[Trifili13]

It's also called a bid. Consider it like an auction. As we are seeing now, Cummins wasn't the NRL's only option in WA

Agree with you that it's a bidding process. I just think people on here are mixing up licence fee which the bid should have put in a figure, while for security that is something the ARLC should have stipulated an amount and not left it up to each bidder to nominate an amount.

You are probably right that there are other options in WA but obviously these options weren't willing to place a bid in the first instance when bids were called otherwise PVL wouldn't be negotiating with the Bears and WA government now to find investors for a WA team.

 

[wb2027]

Yeah "Nominate a licence fee" is bananas.

But discreetly filling it in as $0 and expecting it to get the green light is way more bananas.

 

[Perth Red]

How many times, its not a security bond, it's a license fee, likely to be shared out amongst the other clubs.
If a security bond was what the NRL was looking for they would have demanded a bank (or WA govt bond) guarantee as they did the Dolphins

 

[Perth Red]

Yeah "Nominate a licence fee" is bananas.

But discreetly filling it in as $0 and expecting it to get the green light is way more bananas.

Their logic was ' we are showing you how we will bring $30mill+ of value to the NRL by our inclusion". As it turned out a flawed logic as the NRL EXPECTED a very large fee but failed to identify it as a requirement in the tender. Shambles.

Would love to know what, if anything, the other bids put in the box, Vlandys was 'underwhelmed' by them all according to him.

 

[Trifili13]

Yes because Dolphins as an example are less risky a prospect than Perth. The licence fee and financials outplayed in the bid would have been the NRL assessing what each bid can bring to the table

Agree, Dophins far less risky but did not have to pay a licence fee. Maybe what they bought to the table was enough, but given most clubs are self centred, it would mean that the clubs were happy to share their revenue pie without the Dolphins having to pay a fee for it. Maybe clubs wised up and now want new clubs to pay a licence fee. Dolphins did however still have to provide a rolling 10m bank guarantee for 5 years.

Anyway, for the sport of rugby league, let's hope it turns out for the best. I think this whole process could have been run a whole lot better.

 

[Perth Red]

Agree, Dophins far less risky but did not have to pay a licence fee. Maybe what they bought to the table was enough, but given most clubs are self centred, it would mean that the clubs were happy to share their revenue pie without the Dolphins having to pay a fee for it. Maybe clubs wised up and now want new clubs to pay a licence fee. Dolphins did however still have to provide a rolling 10m bank guarantee for 5 years.

Anyway, for the sport of rugby league, let's hope it turns out for the best. I think this whole process could have been run a whole lot better.

Big difference was the Dolphins admission was based on the next Tv deal being agreed and an increase in TV $'s which allowed the NRL to go back to the clubs (lets not forget the clubs were not in favour of Brisbane2 and went to the trouble of paying for a study to show why) and offer them a significant grant increase based on the extra tv revenue (and reducing funding in grassroots). As we are in middle of tv cycle they cant do the same this time so are relying on the bids bribing the clubs to say yes. Knowing this why they've left it till after submissions to demand a huge fee only they could tell us.

 

[Trifili13]

If the mooted 20m fee is what the ARLC wants, then surely like before you go to a house auction to bid you ask the agent what sort of price the owner is looking for. Surely someone from the Perth bid team that included a management consulting firm, WA government, Bears and Cumins would have asked the ARLC what ballpark figure or minimun fee do they want. If they were given some indication at the time, then just stupidity from them for putting $0. If they weren't given an indication, then looks like no one else offered anything decent.

 

[Matt_CBY]

The lack of understanding on how business works in 2024 is phenomenal.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

Big difference was the Dolphins admission was based on the next Tv deal being agreed and an increase in TV $'s which allowed the NRL to go back to the clubs (lets not forget the clubs were not in favour of Brisbane2 and went to the trouble of paying for a study to show why) and offer them a significant grant increase based on the extra tv revenue (and reducing funding in grassroots). As we are in middle of tv cycle they cant do the same this time so are relying on the bids bribing the clubs to say yes. Knowing this why they've left it till after submissions to demand a huge fee only they could tell us.

What do you mean they can’t do the same? The prospective new clubs aren’t scheduled to enter until this current TV rights deal is about to end and/or has ended.

It concludes in 2027. Club 18 enters at this stage 2027, club 19 enters at this stage 2028/9.

So it doesn’t matter if the game is in the middle of a current deal because it was never intended for any new club to enter now. The additional clubs are to bolster the next deal, clearly.

The continuous comparisons of Dolphins and the next new franchise is bonkers. It’s apples and clams here. They’re not even in the same food groups. People need to learn to move on and accept that there are new parameters now to what was expected and/or required a few years ago. Exactly how the parameters around Dolphins were vastly different and changed from Titans.

Yes, clubs want money. Fair enough. Any new club is entering the pie share to a pie the current clubs have built, in the product the game sells. Returns get marginally smaller for each in relation to potential maximised availability of said returns due to more mouths to feed. Meaning clubs could be getting back a certain % of overall returns if there’s only certain amount of teams to share the returns with and that % obviously gets smaller the more teams that are added. So license fee or maybe truer definition in compensation for losses of potential revenue - call if what suits I guess.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I don’t have an issue if the team is based in Perth. But the NRL should have made it clear that anyone not looking to be based out of Perth need not apply and waste their time and money putting a bid together.

But there's three spots up for grabs, not just one

 

[Perth Red]

What do you mean they can’t do the same? The prospective new clubs aren’t scheduled to enter until this current TV rights deal is about to end and/or has ended.

It concludes in 2027. Club 18 enters at this stage 2027, club 19 enters at this stage 2028/9.

So it doesn’t matter if the game is in the middle of a current deal because it was never intended for any new club to enter now. The additional clubs are to bolster the next deal, clearly.

The continuous comparisons of Dolphins and the next new franchise is bonkers. It’s apples and clams here. They’re not even in the same food groups. People need to learn to move on and accept that there are new parameters now to what was expected and/or required a few years ago. Exactly how the parameters around Dolphins were vastly different and changed from Titans.

Yes, clubs want money. Fair enough. Any new club is entering the pie share to a pie the current clubs have built, in the product the game sells. Returns get marginally smaller for each in relation to potential maximised availability of said returns due to more mouths to feed.

The nrl has decided, for whatever reason, the expansion decision needs to be made now, not after tv negations. Therefore they dont have the money they had to bribe the clubs with they had last time. It’s the only logical reason you’d drop a $20mill ask on a new club AFTER theyve developed their business case.

what nonsense, the addition of new clubs should ultimately generate more revenue than they cost. If they dont then the game shouldn’t be expanding. No one expands their business with a guaranteed expectation of losing money on the expansion!

ps other than the bank surety what was the other differences between titans and dolphins admission?

 

[Red&BlackBear]

The nrl has decided, for whatever reason, the expansion decision needs to be made now, not after tv negations. Therefore they dont have the money they had to bribe the clubs with they had last time. It’s the only logical reason you’d drop a $20mill ask on a new club AFTER theyve worked on their business case.

ps other than the bank surety what was the other differences between titans and dolphins admission?

Clearly the decision is being made now for a start in the new TV rights window or there abouts.

Why wouldn’t they decide to make a decision 2 and bit years out?

All this needs to be worked out before the actual tv negotiations start because that’s the bargaining power that will be used. These negotiations with networks and media require tangible items to use. A new club with all their ducks in a row, ready to start operations is as tangible of an item as it comes.

Dolphins and Titans have so many differences in their models and how the discussion to bring them in came to be it’ll take a giant post to highlight it all. You know this so don’t ask silly questions.

 

[Dragonwest]

The WA community already have a Bears side. The Willagee Bears. They, too, have not been in the Premiership Grade for many years.

Hopefully soon to be rectified ...

 

[AlwaysGreen]

What do you mean they can’t do the same? The prospective new clubs aren’t scheduled to enter until this current TV rights deal is about to end and/or has ended.

It concludes in 2027. Club 18 enters at this stage 2027, club 19 enters at this stage 2028/9.

So it doesn’t matter if the game is in the middle of a current deal because it was never intended for any new club to enter now. The additional clubs are to bolster the next deal, clearly.

The continuous comparisons of Dolphins and the next new franchise is bonkers. It’s apples and clams here. They’re not even in the same food groups. People need to learn to move on and accept that there are new parameters now to what was expected and/or required a few years ago. Exactly how the parameters around Dolphins were vastly different and changed from Titans.

Yes, clubs want money. Fair enough. Any new club is entering the pie share to a pie the current clubs have built, in the product the game sells. Returns get marginally smaller for each in relation to potential maximised availability of said returns due to more mouths to feed.

A small amount of sense interspersed with a lot of nonsense which I condense quite easily.

The whole idea of expansion is to make the pie bigger. Therefore the share of the pie remains the same. Imagine peanuts, that you had a family of four at Christmas. Your pie was cut into 4. Then you invited Bobby and Margaret from next door. You wouldn't serve the same sized pie, you'd make a bigger pie.

It's hard to make a bigger pie though when your ingredients is ridiculous model of a forced arrangement between a defunct failure of a club and a city at gun point in Perth.