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WA- did we miss the boat ?

greenBV4

Bench
Messages
2,510
Josh McGuire gets punished for it. That's the difference. Slater and Smith have done just as bad and gotten away with it.
must be the queenslander in them - luckily the number of qlders in the Storm squad are diminishing. if they aren't going to Melbourne, and Broncos and Cowboys for whatever reason are missing out then where are they going?? Surely no other club "poaches" queenslanders
 
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Messages
14,822
must be the queenslander in them - luckily the number of qlders in the Storm squad are diminishing. if they aren't going to Melbourne, and Broncos and Cowboys for whatever reason are missing out then where are they going?? Surely no other club "poaches" queenslanders
I'll admit, some of those Queensland victories between 06-13 were tainted. Cronk had a nasty habit of taking players out off the ball when they were dead certain collect the grubber and score.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,957
Remember when we used to talk about expansion on the expansion forum, and not how many f**king Queenslanders are in each team!
 
Messages
14,822
And by bringing this up its showing that every club breaches the cap at some point, yet you are firing accusations only at Melbourne on repeat
You're right about clubs breaching the cap at some point, not just Melbourne.

At the start of 2019 it was reported that Melbourne were over the cap by $600k. Other clubs were also over the cap.

"The Storm’s full cap crisis was laid bare on Tuesday morning by Triple M NRL commentator Ben Dobbin, who told Triple M’s Big Breakfast that the club is $600,000 over the 2019 cap."

https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/n...s/news-story/0f32d221d6455f24216774f0355d2fc3

I don't think Melbourne were the only club guilty of it, for what it's worth. What set the Storm's confirmed breach between 06-10 apart from the rest was the scale of it.

Unfortunately for Melbourne, the court of public opinion is unforgiving. There will be fans questioning the validity of their success over the last 15 years due to the scale of the 06-10 breaches and the fact they haven't had a bad year since.

Parramatta escape people's scorn because they sucked during the period they were cheating.

"On 23 April the NRL seized a secret dossier hidden in the home of acting chief executive Matt Hanson. The dossier contains letters of offer to three of the Storm's star players (Greg Inglis, Billy Slater, and Cameron Smith) and another unnamed player guaranteeing illegal payments in the form of goods from third parties. For one player with a $400,000 contract lodged with the NRL, the letter of offer was valued at $950,000, and contained a $20,000 gift voucher for a national retailer and a $30,000 boat. Other offers included a new car for a player's partner and $30,000 in home renovations. The offers together amounted to $700,000 of which the four players had already received $400,000."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne_Storm_salary_cap_breach
Reading that, especially the bit about one player's partner getting a $20k car during the 06-10 salary cap rort, reminded me of Greenberg giving Smith's wife a & 15k diamond ring a couple of years back because the poor dear has the burden of being married to a high-status man that has made her rich and comfortable.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-ring-400-game-milestone-Melbourne-Storm.html

You can't blame people for being suspicious and thinking the NRL is corrupt when Greenberg does that.
 
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Messages
14,822
With property prices forcing people out of Sydney and Brisbane to a lesser extent, more RL fans will relocate to places like WA and SA. Having teams in Adelaide and Perth will be vital to keep expatriates from RL states, and their children, active in our game.
 
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Travitoh

First Grade
Messages
5,186
No no.. we HAD boats (Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane 2) that just needed a little work, but they were scrapped & their parts cannibalized for another one entirely (Melbourne).

This is why AFL is breaking away from NRL. They embraced having a national competition while the NRL cowered away from the challenge.
 
Messages
14,822
This is why AFL is breaking away from NRL. They embraced having a national competition while the NRL cowered away from the challenge.
History of VFL expansion.

http://www.footyindustry.com/?page_id=1469

1980 – The Hennessy Report recommends a team be established in Sydney. The team would be profitable, making profits of $750,000 after three years, and drawing 17,000 average crowds in the first year up to 20,000 in the third. (Football Limited, pg, 93)

1981 – January 28. VFL appoints Graham Huggins to do a study into launching a full time VFL side in Sydney. The study takes 5 months

1981 – June 17. Huggins report is tabled to the VFL board recommneding immediate expansion. Under the Huggins report Sydney would be controlled by a VFL trust, and have a trial period of three years in the league before becoming a full member.

1981 – July 1. South Melbourne asks the VFL to fixture all home games in Sydney and all away games at VFL Park under lights

1981 – July 5. Keep South at South meets at Lakeside oval.

1981 – July 29. VFL approves moving 11 home games to Sydney in 1982.

1981 – September 22. Extraordinary meeting of South Melbourne members, KSAS committee wins 80% of vote.

1981 – November 18.The VFL agrees to loan South $400,000 from the Ground Improvement Fund on condition that the club plays its games in Sydney for at least two years.

1981 – December 9. VFL presidents indicate support for the VFL to take over South

1981 – December 11. South Board resigns.

1982 – February 10. Gold Coast Australian Football league launches a campaign to have a VFL team based on the Gold Coast within five years.

1982 – December 10. VFL Commissioner says that applications had been recieved from WA, SA, and the ACT. The article quotes Hamilton as saying that the ACT would almost certainly be represented in the VFL in future.

1983 – John Elliot and Elders IXL look at buying the Swans. They would need to pay out 1.6 million in debt and buyout 1800 members at $40 a piece. The plan was later dropped. (Football Limited pg.97)

1983 – February 5th. Allen Aylett suggests moving clubs interstate to alleviate their financial problems after reported speculation that Footscray or Collingwood could move to Brisbane.

1983 – May 11. A report by David Crawford says the Swans are dangerously close to extinction. (The Phoenix Rises pg 20)

1984 – May 17. Bob Ansett (North president) says that a national competition was needed to ensure the survival of the VFL after reports emerged that several clubs were considering forming a breakaway competition.

1984 – June 6. North Melbourne proposes a revamped 16 team competition in six states to a VFL task force.

1984 – September 4. Meeting of club representatives organised by John Elliot and Ian Collins proposing the setting up of a new national competition, with financial conditions set, and clubs to be invited from WA and SA. SA is uninterested, but interest from WA was reported as warm. 11 VFL club presidents are reported in favour (Geelongs president wasnt present).

1984 – September 12. John Elliot presents his plan to the VFL board at an emergency meeting “noting that his material had input from the Collingwood president, Ranald Macdonald, and “other club representatives” (The Phoenix Rises pg 23)

1984 – September 14. Victorian Minister for sport and recreation condemns moves to take the VFL national in parliament, saying 90% of the Victorian public opposed the move.

1985 – The VFL obtains a $60,000 grant from the Federal Government for a feasibility study on national football. This was conducted by John Adams with strong support from WA. (Soaring, pg 12)

1985 – July 1. Geoffrey Edelston wins the Sydney license. He sets up a company called Powerplay to run the Swans. By September the club was effectively owned by Westeq.

1985, October 30. The Age reports that ‘the VFL was at great pains to say it is proposing an expansion of the existing competition to include interstate teams and not a national league’. (Behind the Play pg 198)

1985, Nov 6. Adams delivers his report. Major recommendations include a 12 team competition – eight from Victoria, two from Adelaide and 1 from Perth and Sydney. (Soaring, pg 12)

1985, November 7. The NFL releases its own play for a national compeition, with a 12 team structure featuring 9 teams from Melbourne and one each from Sydney, Perth and Adelaide. It also proposed an independent form of administration rather than the VFL’s Melbourne centrered power base”. The WAFL supports the NFL option, going so far as to send its CEO to talk to Macquarie Bank in Sydney about getting $100 million to float a competition, with six Melbourne clubs saying they’d break away. (Behind the Play pg 198)

1985 – December. All clubs sign license agreements with the league/ (The Phoenix Rises pg.53)

1986, Feb 7. WAFL Chairman Roy Annear states that he sees a national competition as essential to football in Australia, WA had to be represented and it had to be with a composite team. (soaring pg 12)

1986 – July 1. VFL Commissioner reported in talks with consortium over possible team in Queensland

1986, July 10. A report by Richard Colless, Peter Fogarty and John Walker is presented to the WAFL stating that 1) an expanded VFL was inevitable. 2) a composite team was the way forward. 3) Control of the team should rest with the WAFL. 4) The VFL would expand to WA by other means if the WAFL teams didnt support the composite option.

1986 – July 29. Kevin Bartlett writes that the national league wont get off the ground. (Football Limited pg 154)

1986, July 31. The VFL reaffirms its commitment to a national competition in 1987, with a preference for a team from Brisbane. The league was uncertain as to whether teams from SA or WA would be involved. (Behind the Play pg 202)

1986 – Fitzroy board approves an in principle move to Brisbane 5-3. It was later declared a “straw vote”. (Football limited pg. 157)

1986 – August 5. The VFL decides not to adopt rationalistion and announces it will take 12 teams into its proposed national competition in 1987.

1986 – August 7. SA and WA say they will reconsider joining the national competition after the VFL voted to retain all 12 clubs in the league. WA and SA had been working under the belief that there were be some rationalisation and the league would be composed of 12 clubs and not 14.

1986 – October 1. VFL Board of Directors approves teams from Western Australia and Queensland to join the VFL in 1987. Hawthorn, Collingwood, Melbourne and Essendon vote against, but all other clubs vote for. Fitzroy initially opposed, but Leon Wiegard is convinced by the dollar signs drawn by the commission. (Football Limited pg. 159) West Coast have a 5 year exclusive period attached. (The Phoenix Rises pg. 156)

1986 – October 30. The new WA club is announced as the West Coast Eagles. (Headliners – Birth of the West coash Eagles)

1986 – October 1. VFL board of directors rejects Hecrons proposed ownership stake in Fitzroy.

1986 – October 1. Richmond propose to play 11 games a year in Brisbane. (The Phoenix Rises pg. 78)

1986 – October 4. Perth clothing millionare Allister Norwood withdraws from the bidding for a Queensland side.

1986 – October 8. A syndicate headed by Actor Paul Cronin and the QAFL wins the right to field a new team in Brisbane.

1986 – October 20. The VFL meets with the SANFLs Bob Lee and Leigh Whicker to discuss a composite team, or relocating a Victorian club. (The Phoenix Rises pg. 78)

1986 – October 30. VFL Commission notes with concern that Skase intended to base the Bears in Carrara. The league specified that this cold only be a temporary arrangement. (The Phoenix Rises, pg 133)

1987 – East and South Fremantle apparently lauched a joint bid for a VFL team to enter in 1990. (The Phoenix Rises pg. 156)

1987, Feb 6. A Limited Partnership (Indian Pacific Limited) is formed to raise the money to cover the costs of setting up and operating the Eagles. The float eventually raised $12.3 million. (Soaring, pg 17)

1987 – February 18. The VFL annual report reveals that without the funds from the two new licenses, the VFL clubs would have lost a combined 3 million. They have no facilities for training, and the change rooms were basically a van.

1987 – March 11. The VFL Board of Directors recieves a proposal for a team in New Zealand (The Phoenix Rises pg.117)

1987 – April 21. ACT announces its seeking a team in Canberra by 1988.

1987, July 24. The West Australian reports that officials of the two Fremantle sides were exploring the possibility of a second club down in the port. However, IPL had a five year exclusive rights clause in their agreement and it was not to be. (behind the play pg 214)

1987 – September. A proposal was forwarded to the League by a Western Australian Errol Marron, which called for the re-location of an existing VFL team to Los Angeles and that such team be known as the Los Angeles Crocodiles. (The Phoenix Rises pg. 117). This proposed a team to play 14 games in Australia and 8 in Los Angeles, with expect average crowds of 20,000.

1987 – September 11. Ross Oakley requests that no announcement of the LA proposal be made until after the Grand Final.

1987 – September 18. ACT supporters announce plan to lobby VFL clubs to get around Commission opposition to an ACT club entering the VFL. The ACT proposal appeared aimed at Fitzroy including paying off a relocated clubs debts and retain its traditional name, logo and jumper.

1987 – October 2. The VFL rejects Marrons proposal, and details are reported in the news.

1987 – IPL requires bailing out. A rescue package of $5 million was hastily organised, with five people putting in $1 million each: Neil Hamilton, Colless, McHenry, Mark Hohnen and Robert
Armstrong. (The Phoenix Rises pg. 132)
 
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The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,957
No no.. we HAD boats (Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane 2) that just needed a little work, but they were scrapped & their parts cannibalized for another one entirely (Melbourne).
To be fair the Perth boat was the Titanic and the Brisbane 2 boat was the Bismarck...
 

flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,221
History of VFL expansion.

http://www.footyindustry.com/?page_id=1469

1980 – The Hennessy Report recommends a team be established in Sydney. The team would be profitable, making profits of $750,000 after three years, and drawing 17,000 average crowds in the first year up to 20,000 in the third. (Football Limited, pg, 93)

1981 – June 17. Huggins report is tabled to the VFL board recommneding immediate expansion. Under the Huggins report Sydney would be controlled by a VFL trust, and have a trial period of three years in the league before becoming a full member.

1981 – July 1. South Melbourne asks the VFL to fixture all home games in Sydney and all away games at VFL Park under lights

1981 – July 5. Keep South at South meets at Lakeside oval.

1981 – July 29. VFL approves moving 11 home games to Sydney in 1982.

1981 – September 22. Extraordinary meeting of South Melbourne members, KSAS committee wins 80% of vote.

1981 – November 18.The VFL agrees to loan South $400,000 from the Ground Improvement Fund on condition that the club plays its games in Sydney for at least two years.

1981 – December 9. VFL presidents indicate support for the VFL to take over South

1981 – December 11. South Board resigns.

1984 – May 17. Bob Ansett (North president) says that a national competition was needed to ensure the survival of the VFL after reports emerged that several clubs were considering forming a breakaway competition.

1984 – June 6. North Melbourne proposes a revamped 16 team competition in six states to a VFL task force.

1984 – September 4. Meeting of club representatives organised by John Elliot and Ian Collins proposing the setting up of a new national competition, with financial conditions set, and clubs to be invited from WA and SA. SA is uninterested, but interest from WA was reported as warm. 11 VFL club presidents are reported in favour (Geelongs president wasnt present).

1986 – August 7. SA and WA say they will reconsider joining the national competition after the VFL voted to retain all 12 clubs in the league. WA and SA had been working under the belief that there were be some rationalisation and the league would be composed of 12 clubs and not 14.

I snipped a bit of this, but kept a few events of note..

* Very interesting that the VFL identified Sydney, identified an obviously weak club, and moved to accommodate/persuade them to fill that recognised need for a Sydney club, quite promptly.

* Where are the Bob Ansetts of the NRL?? Is there anyone in club-land that can recognize (and most importantly push for) the need to truly re-establish a nationwide footprint??

* interesting to see the reaction to the National Competition proposal from other AFL states - SA were lukewarm at best, WA were dead keen. If SA were keener from the get-go, and entered a team along with Perth in 1987, could that have delayed Brisbane's AFL debut?

* Kudos to the VFL for pressing ahead with expansion, and doing their darndest to keep WA & SA keen, despite the back-flip from Melbourne clubs over rationalization. I guess that was to be expected, but I assume the VFL figured attrition would play it's part in solving the puzzle of Melbourne's over-saturation.. although only losing the Lions to a merge/move with Brisbane isn't THAT much attrition!

All in all, it shows an organisation prepared & willing to expand, despite whatever obstacles come up. And look where they are now.
 
Messages
14,822
I snipped a bit of this, but kept a few events of note..

* Very interesting that the VFL identified Sydney, identified an obviously weak club, and moved to accommodate/persuade them to fill that recognised need for a Sydney club, quite promptly.

* Where are the Bob Ansetts of the NRL?? Is there anyone in club-land that can recognize (and most importantly push for) the need to truly re-establish a nationwide footprint??

* interesting to see the reaction to the National Competition proposal from other AFL states - SA were lukewarm at best, WA were dead keen. If SA were keener from the get-go, and entered a team along with Perth in 1987, could that have delayed Brisbane's AFL debut?

* Kudos to the VFL for pressing ahead with expansion, and doing their darndest to keep WA & SA keen, despite the back-flip from Melbourne clubs over rationalization. I guess that was to be expected, but I assume the VFL figured attrition would play it's part in solving the puzzle of Melbourne's over-saturation.. although only losing the Lions to a merge/move with Brisbane isn't THAT much attrition!

All in all, it shows an organisation prepared & willing to expand, despite whatever obstacles come up. And look where they are now.
VFL were in a weaker position than the NSWRL. It forced the VFL to expand so they could rake in money by charging licence fees for expansion clubs, during a time when the game went from being semi-professional to professional. Clubs were spending a fortune on transfer fees for players from WAFL and SANFL and it was putting them in financial trouble. It has worked out well for them, but their original motives were to keep their teams viable. The NRL clubs are not in such a perilous position and would have no reason to adopt the same strategy.
 

flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,221
VFL were in a weaker position than the NSWRL. It forced the VFL to expand so they could rake in money by charging licence fees for expansion clubs, during a time when the game went from being semi-professional to professional. Clubs were spending a fortune on transfer fees for players from WAFL and SANFL and it was putting them in financial trouble. It has worked out well for them, but their original motives were to keep their teams viable. The NRL clubs are not in such a perilous position and would have no reason to adopt the same strategy.

What was the situation re: gambling back then?

As well established, NSW clubs (and by extension the NSWRL competition) gained the upper hand over Qld clubs over the decades because they had pokies revenue while Queensland didn't.

Did ALL the AFL heartland states have legalised pokies between the '50s & '80s?
Is that why the VFL clubs had to go the extra mile & borrow for poaching from WA & SA clubs?
 

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