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Waltzing's Request: Lock Me In

Pumba

First Grade
Messages
8,542
Waltzing's Request: Lock Me In

'Waltzing' Matt Hilder believes he's settled into his best position at the Newcastle Knights and is keen to hold onto the no.13 jersey for the rest of the season.

Hilder has become known as one of the game's best utility players - capable of filling in at five-eighth, hooker and in the second row - but says lock-forward is the position for him.

"[Lock's] where I feel most comfortable anyway around the middle there in that position. I think I play a bit better there," he says.

"I think everyone's happy with what they're doing. 'Gids' (Kurt Gidley) just does what he does best, Scotty Dureau... he's happy being in the team and doing his job at the start there. Then Mullo (Jarrod Mullen) comes in there for him."

Big League
 

keeney

First Grade
Messages
6,640
I would never have dreamed of giving him the starting spot at the start of the season, despite the fact I agree its the best for him, and the overall high impression I've always had of the guy. I'm still not sure it's best for the team, but considering how woeful our defense has been (In the lowest 2-3 teams in points conceded, missed tackles and linebreaks conceded) he's a good fit for now. We just have such a glut of talent that he's a victim of both his utility value and lack of attacking flair. Taia, Pato, House and Simmo aren't exactly slouches.

Although we could swing in a fully fit team :

8. Tolar
9. De Gois
10. Cross
11. Taia/Simmo/Pato
12. House
13. Hilder

14. Simmo/Pato/Taia
15. Pato/Simmo/Taia
16. Faas
17. Karawana/Ndaira (Any other reasonable utilities?)

Logic behind this being, if Zeb's wide running continues to be so effective he'd be better utilised in the 2nd row than he has been at lock (where he was one of our best last year and still contributed admirably this year) plus, while it's hard to discredit Zeb's tackling, he doesn't have the motor for it that Hilder does, and it blunts his incisive running under the workload of a 30+ tackle count, something Hilder doesn't benefit from.

House is an 80 Minute player, he has been breaking the line well running wide, tackling well and without the penalties and errors of last year is quickly shaping into one of our best. He'd be difficult to shift, although he could be well utilised anywhere from front row to the bench. I'd elect to keep him there, although with the return of Simmo and his untouchable aura (deserved if not currently reflective of the aging bull, although this may change) he may find himself benched to accomodate his reputation and standing in the teams hierarchy.

Pato, could be anything. But he is prone to low workloads, and is having trouble combining the attacking brilliance of his debut season with the defensive brutality of 2008 and the first few rounds of this year. I don't know what it is, if he can ever get the two together he has the potential to be a once in a decade backrower in the BK ilk, and I don't think that's an overstatement. He can cut blokes in half, can leap for a high ball better than most fullbacks, had the best offloading vision and capability in heavy traffic I've ever seen of a rookie, plus has the agility/skill and presence of mind for the bat on, quick hands, and even the kick behind the line. Wankery aside, he's down on fitness due to lack of game time this year so I'm not going to pass judgement, but at the moment, he can't start at the expense of the current rotation. Inserting him as a strike weapon may be beneficial too. If he ever gets it all together though, he'd be too valuable to leave on the bench, you'd want 80 minutes from him.

Simmo, as has been discussed is looking older. I personally believe it's a match fitness thing, that it takes him a longer time to warm to the challenge due to the years of footy taking it out of his body, and not a case of him being old and crap now. Time will tell. My current read on the situation is that he'd be best suited to a prop conversion as he slow. There his defence hard running could still be a valuable asset. While this would also be the case in the 2nd row, it would come at the expense of the most multi faceted glut of backrowers in the comp. As a bench prop he wouldn't step on as many toes so to speak. If I was in charge he'd be being punished for the one game against the Warriors last year in which he showed his mettle at prop, and his own versatility. I'm aware the Simmo at prop experiment has failed in the past, but that was largely at Origin level, I feel he has it in him to be an excellent prop at club level.

On current form you can't drop Faas for Wicks, and you wouldn't want to carry Wicks on a bench that large. It prompts too many reshuffles if we have an injury in the backline, halves, or hooking positions. Wicks' attitude has improved, but he hasn't shown much as yet (not his fault). Faas has been our best prop week in week out, despite his hands. It's as simple as that.

Mark is only suited in the Tolar role in our team, something Tolar, Simmo and House are better at. Unless he learns how to run, he's never gonna break into the fully fit starting 17 of my team.

The first set of /'s indicate my best team currently, the second and third, potential combinations contingent on Pato and Simmo's form. The inclusion of both would create the need for more reshuffling obviously, but I didn't want it to become an indefinable mess of slashes and contingency plans.

What do you guys think? Agree, disagree? I'd love for somebody to pick apart my thoughts and to see what the general consensus is. I don't think we'd ever see this team exactly, but it's a real possibility we'll get something close to it, and it's an exciting prospect.

Discuss.
 

antonius

Coach
Messages
10,104
I would never have dreamed of giving him the starting spot at the start of the season, despite the fact I agree its the best for him, and the overall high impression I've always had of the guy. I'm still not sure it's best for the team, but considering how woeful our defense has been (In the lowest 2-3 teams in points conceded, missed tackles and linebreaks conceded) he's a good fit for now. We just have such a glut of talent that he's a victim of both his utility value and lack of attacking flair. Taia, Pato, House and Simmo aren't exactly slouches.

Although we could swing in a fully fit team :

8. Tolar
9. De Gois
10. Cross
11. Taia/Simmo/Pato
12. House
13. Hilder

14. Simmo/Pato/Taia
15. Pato/Simmo/Taia
16. Faas
17. Karawana/Ndaira (Any other reasonable utilities?)

Logic behind this being, if Zeb's wide running continues to be so effective he'd be better utilised in the 2nd row than he has been at lock (where he was one of our best last year and still contributed admirably this year) plus, while it's hard to discredit Zeb's tackling, he doesn't have the motor for it that Hilder does, and it blunts his incisive running under the workload of a 30+ tackle count, something Hilder doesn't benefit from.

House is an 80 Minute player, he has been breaking the line well running wide, tackling well and without the penalties and errors of last year is quickly shaping into one of our best. He'd be difficult to shift, although he could be well utilised anywhere from front row to the bench. I'd elect to keep him there, although with the return of Simmo and his untouchable aura (deserved if not currently reflective of the aging bull, although this may change) he may find himself benched to accomodate his reputation and standing in the teams hierarchy.

Pato, could be anything. But he is prone to low workloads, and is having trouble combining the attacking brilliance of his debut season with the defensive brutality of 2008 and the first few rounds of this year. I don't know what it is, if he can ever get the two together he has the potential to be a once in a decade backrower in the BK ilk, and I don't think that's an overstatement. He can cut blokes in half, can leap for a high ball better than most fullbacks, had the best offloading vision and capability in heavy traffic I've ever seen of a rookie, plus has the agility/skill and presence of mind for the bat on, quick hands, and even the kick behind the line. Wankery aside, he's down on fitness due to lack of game time this year so I'm not going to pass judgement, but at the moment, he can't start at the expense of the current rotation. Inserting him as a strike weapon may be beneficial too. If he ever gets it all together though, he'd be too valuable to leave on the bench, you'd want 80 minutes from him.

Simmo, as has been discussed is looking older. I personally believe it's a match fitness thing, that it takes him a longer time to warm to the challenge due to the years of footy taking it out of his body, and not a case of him being old and crap now. Time will tell. My current read on the situation is that he'd be best suited to a prop conversion as he slow. There his defence hard running could still be a valuable asset. While this would also be the case in the 2nd row, it would come at the expense of the most multi faceted glut of backrowers in the comp. As a bench prop he wouldn't step on as many toes so to speak. If I was in charge he'd be being punished for the one game against the Warriors last year in which he showed his mettle at prop, and his own versatility. I'm aware the Simmo at prop experiment has failed in the past, but that was largely at Origin level, I feel he has it in him to be an excellent prop at club level.

On current form you can't drop Faas for Wicks, and you wouldn't want to carry Wicks on a bench that large. It prompts too many reshuffles if we have an injury in the backline, halves, or hooking positions. Wicks' attitude has improved, but he hasn't shown much as yet (not his fault). Faas has been our best prop week in week out, despite his hands. It's as simple as that.

Mark is only suited in the Tolar role in our team, something Tolar, Simmo and House are better at. Unless he learns how to run, he's never gonna break into the fully fit starting 17 of my team.

The first set of /'s indicate my best team currently, the second and third, potential combinations contingent on Pato and Simmo's form. The inclusion of both would create the need for more reshuffling obviously, but I didn't want it to become an indefinable mess of slashes and contingency plans.

What do you guys think? Agree, disagree? I'd love for somebody to pick apart my thoughts and to see what the general consensus is. I don't think we'd ever see this team exactly, but it's a real possibility we'll get something close to it, and it's an exciting prospect.

Discuss.
Where does Taufua fit? or don't you rate him?
 
Messages
16,034
He never really seems to have that bigger hitups in my oppinion, but his still only relatively new to the game isnt he?
 

Jono078

Referee
Messages
21,202
I don't like Taufua as a front rower, he showed last year against Melbourne what he can do as a Lock.

Hilder is very valuable as a benchie.
 

B-dos

Referee
Messages
28,165
great post keeney

i fully agree Smith has a minor headache working out our best starting backrow. its certainly tough to pick. the only certain starter for mine is Taia. he has been excellent this year.

Karawana should be left as far away from the FG side as possible. i dont rate him at all. admittedly my low opinion of him was only really enforced after the Manly game (if i recall).. he was woefully inneffective.
 

keeney

First Grade
Messages
6,640
I don't like Taufua as a front rower, he showed last year against Melbourne what he can do as a Lock.

Hilder is very valuable as a benchie.

He is and will probably make way again, but our defense needs him atm. As I said before I don't think his talent lies on the bench, but at full flight it's probably his most valuable role in the team.

Mark was okay at lock, but if you want someone who will just tackle, Hilder is capable of making 20 more a game. You'd replace him with a better option, not a worse one. Taia would be mine, although I'm loving him running wide, he's a line break machine.
 

keeney

First Grade
Messages
6,640
great post keeney

i fully agree Smith has a minor headache working out our best starting backrow. its certainly tough to pick. the only certain starter for mine is Taia. he has been excellent this year.

Karawana should be left as far away from the FG side as possible. i dont rate him at all. admittedly my low opinion of him was only really enforced after the Manly game (if i recall).. he was woefully inneffective.

Highlights our lack of utility options if Hilder gets his promotion. He's not terrible, I just don't think it's wise carrying a bench with 4 (absolute) forwards.

I feel as a cohesive unit though, on current form, the first option of my pack would be the most functional. It could really hammer the sh*t out of some teams, to be blunt.
 

General Knight

Juniors
Messages
1,380
In practical terms rarely will we ever have the dillema of trying to fit everyone into the 17. Someone is always going to be injured. I think over the last few years or probably even that start of 2000 have we ever had everyone available at the same time for more than 10 games. That observation may not be 100% accurate but should be pretty close to it.
 

keeney

First Grade
Messages
6,640
It's a well known fact that teams that win premierships have very few injuries.

Currently we will be back to almost full strength by next week, with the exception of Tolar, whom is only out for a few more weeks anyway. It is a dilemma, and one we'll have to deal with if we ever get any luck.
 

voltron

Juniors
Messages
1,454
LOL @ this guy

from the Dailytelegraph comments on the campese story ($350K offer from panthers)
Newcastle should sack Matt Hilder, the Macdougall brothers, Ben Rogers and Richard Fa'aoso for him. We need a plausable 5/8..... While were firing people get rid of Smithy too I don't trust him.... Premier ship drop out
Posted by: Dean of Randwick of Sydney 9:24am today Comment 26 of 29
 

Burwood

First Grade
Messages
5,008
I don't think we need to "lock" any of our backrowers in to a position at all. Our props in Cross and Tolar, along with De Gois, are probably the only three forwards who would retain their positions every week in a full strength outfit (and lock Wicks and Fa'aso on the bench). The likes of Hilder, Taia, Houston, Paterson and Simpson will likely be switching positions and roles in the team on a fairly regular basis to suit Smith's game plan.
 

Mr Angry

Not a Referee
Messages
51,816
I have know for ages Hilder prefers lock and would play well there.

I still reckon he would be a great 80 minute hooker too.
 

B-dos

Referee
Messages
28,165
Highlights our lack of utility options if Hilder gets his promotion. He's not terrible, I just don't think it's wise carrying a bench with 4 (absolute) forwards.

good point on the utility options. however im careful of having a substandard player on the bench purely for utilities sake if this is detrimental to the teams performance when he is on the field. although im yet to see much of Ndaira in a Knights jersey id much prefer him in there than Karawana.
 

Serc

First Grade
Messages
6,902
He's been used there a few times Mr Angry :) notables being when we knocked off the Storm and Titans (when they were top of the table) last year.
 

Pika

Bench
Messages
3,641
Hey keeney, are we really in the bottom three for line breaks conceded and missed tackles?
 

keeney

First Grade
Messages
6,640
Pretty sure, I'll do a comprehensive stat update like i did at this stage last year later on.
 

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