Was it true?

[dice]

It is not like young families are queuing up to buy multi-million dollar properties in the inner city. Do you guys even have half a clue at how lopsided the competition would become in favour of out of Sydney teams like Brisbane? Be careful what you wish for.

It is also ironic that these threads are mostly started by Saints supporters who do not understand that their premiership winning streak was a result of systematically falsifying residential documentation... and paying off refs to be sure

 

[Lambretta]

Given by whom?

The NSWRL

Ironically, Souths region was due to grow due to the rise of Maroubra that grew significantly in the 60's so they didn't need to do that. Maroubra was originally an Eastern Suburb territory as well, but that had been given to Souths in the 1920's when the area was largely unpopulated so Easts never worried too much about it.

The border changes in the 50's also coincided with the era where the players had to live in the area of the club they represented.

Cutting Randwick, Coogee and Kensington from the "Eastern Suburbs" and giving them to Souths meant that the vast majority of the affordable working class suburbs in the East were gone, so Easts effectively lost more than half of their area. Rose Bay, Vaucluse, Point Piper, Darling Point, Double Bay and Bellevue Hill have long been more expensive areas to live and have always been more interested in Rugby Union.

Waverly, Paddington, Woollahra, Moore Park, Bondi, Bondi Junction & Clovelly was effectively all that was left of the "Eastern Suburbs". Moore Park consists of about three streets.

Moore Park and Paddington are part of South Sydney juniors too - but it appears they voted with their feet and went over voluntarily.

 

[eozsmiles]

I agree with all the people complaining that the beachside clubs are full of westies, Kiwis, and queesnlanders.

I'd much rather see talented players driven out of the game by the limitation on squad sizes than go and play for any other club.

Makes no sense at all for either the clubs or the NRL to try and get the best players possible on the field, wherever that happens to be.

What is lost in this ever present discussion is the inability of the "heartland" clubs to find decent recruitment staff. Why don't they keep the talented kids instead of shuffling Ben Roberts and Reni Matuia around the western suburbs?

 

[eozsmiles]

The NSWRL

Ironically, Souths region was due to grow due to the rise of Maroubra that grew significantly in the 60's so they didn't need to do that. Maroubra was originally an Eastern Suburb territory as well, but that had been given to Souths in the 1920's when the area was largely unpopulated so Easts never worried too much about it.

The border changes in the 50's also coincided with the era where the players had to live in the area of the club they represented.

Cutting Randwick, Coogee and Kensington from the "Eastern Suburbs" and giving them to Souths meant that the vast majority of the affordable working class suburbs in the East were gone, so Easts effectively lost more than half of their area. Rose Bay, Vaucluse, Point Piper, Darling Point, Double Bay and Bellevue Hill have long been more expensive areas to live and have always been more interested in Rugby Union.

Waverly, Paddington, Woollahra, Moore Park, Bondi, Bondi Junction & Clovelly was effectively all that was left of the "Eastern Suburbs". Moore Park consists of about three streets.

Moore Park and Paddington are part of South Sydney juniors too - but it appears they voted with their feet and went over voluntarily.

All that stuff seems to be conveniently forgotten by many fans.

 

[eozsmiles]

What I dont understand is why fans want to deny players opportunity. Ive moved towns/cities for uni, jobs, lifestyle, opportunity. People whining about players being "poached" by another club probably live around the corner from their parents and work 1 km away.

 

[aqua_duck]

Honestly have no qualms at all with the roosters signing blokes like Aubusson, SKD, Mini, Friend, Cordner, etc from a young age and bringing them up from lower grades, to me that's why you have talent scouts.
Besides, they bought 5 new players this year, 2 of them from ESL, one was a bloke that Penrith were more than happy to get rid of, one was a bloke who people said wasn't up to it, came with too much baggage, wasn't worth the risk, etc.
If the roosters failed this year everyone would've said how their recruitment strategy was flawed, how it was a mistake to appoint a rookie coach, how they recruited 2 drama queens, etc.

 

[big hit!]

This tale is well documented here by a Roosters fan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Roosters_Juniors

edited for accuracy.

I don't dispute the circumstances. but don't refer to it as 'well documented' when it's clearly laden in opinion and bias.

 

[Valheru]

The history of roosters/souths juniors aside, some people really need to get over this archaic notion of juniors being important. We are in the age of professionalism, do you think Man United care if their players are form Manchester or if the New York Giants give a single second of thought to whether their players are from New York?

 

[Canard]

The history of roosters/souths juniors aside, some people really need to get over this archaic notion of juniors being important. We are in the age of professionalism, do you think Man United care if their players are form Manchester or if the New York Giants give a single second of thought to whether their players are from New York?

I can tell you Mancs do, certain fans of English Premier League teams even get antsy about any fan that's not a "true" local and consider them to be "plastic" fans. (i.e. don't expect to be "embraced" by Scousers when you visit the Kop just because you grew up supporting Liverpool)

 

[Jason Maher]

Yep. I once got abused by a Pommie City fan for gravely insulting his honour by saying "go United". The amusing bit was that he wasn't bothered by the fact I support United, but by the fact I was Australian and supported United. Idiots with that view of things must be ignorant of where the money that runs their clubs comes from.

 

[ek999]

So the size of your soul relates to the size of your working class population?

To suggest that the Roosters don't develop their own players is about the most laughable thing I hear on these forums.

Go through the Roosters squad and name the players that have played for other NRL teams

Then go through the squads of every other NRL team and do the same.

The Roosters have fewer players that have played elsewhere than most. The Warriors have fewer from memory. The Knights certainly don't.

Do you want us to start up a collection for a stepladder for you?

From the GF team: Jennings, Maloney, JWH, Moa, SBW, Mortimer and O'Donnell plus FPN who debuted with the Roosters but played all his lower grades with the Warriors and joined the Roosters the year he debuted. So that's 7 or 8 which isn't bad in this day and age. The Roosters are nowhere near as bad as they used to be. Compare that to the that to Manly who had Kite, Lawerence, Horo, Lyon, Gower, Symonds, Rose.

The Knights with their mythical soul had Mason, Fa'alogo, Scott, Rochow, Smith, Leilua, Gagai, Boyd, Costigan and McKinnon who debuted elsewhere playing in the Prelim.

For the record, Souths had Inglis, Goodwin, L Burgess, S Burgess, Te'o, Lima and Asotasi.

Roosters are basically on par with Souths and Manly at developing players but better then Newcastle.

 

[BranVan3000]

Roosters say it doesn't matter, but it does matter. If Roosters gave a crap about junior development they would be going into overdrive right now getting kids in the Eastern suburbs signing up to junior footy. Instead they don't really care and the Eastern Suburbs is being donated by soccer and AFL coming in

 

[BranVan3000]

The history of roosters/souths juniors aside, some people really need to get over this archaic notion of juniors being important. We are in the age of professionalism, do you think Man United care if their players are form Manchester or if the New York Giants give a single second of thought to whether their players are from New York?

Juniors are more important now than ever. ManU doesn't have to worry about AFL and RU taking juniors in a limited population

 

[perverse]

The Knights with their mythical soul had Mason, Fa'alogo, Scott, Rochow, Smith, Leilua, Gagai, Boyd, Costigan and McKinnon who debuted elsewhere playing in the Prelim.

The bolded are local hunter boys... you don't have to train at the Knights to have your heart in Newcastle.

Blokes who come from the area or are flat out our juniors in our finals team:

2. McManus/Kev Naiqama - McManus a long term Knights junior, Kev picked up as a young'n with horrible hands.
5. Uate - long term Knights junior
6. Mullen - long term Knights junior
7. Roberts - long term knights junior
9. Buderus
10. Mason - Tronno Scorpions.
11. Rochow - local kid come home

14. McKinnion - kid from Scone.

and we were missing Snowden, who is both a local junior and local kid. Also missing Gidley... so that would be 10/17 for our starting team as either born in the area or groomed in the area.

It doesn't matter too much to Knights fans where these blokes trained. Where they were raised, and how they pull on the jersey is far more important. It was remarkable to see Willie step straight into the club and bring a bit of what Newcastle is about back into the playing group. We had lost it with the Brian Smith cleanout... but Willie came in and knew exactly what Newcastle and the Knights are and should be about from the first day he got here. That's Newcastle for you, if you've lived there you'll know what I mean. You either get Newcastle, or you don't. It's a town that will support it's team 13 losses in a row providing that the team is having a genuine crack. He's been a massive part in restoring pride in our jersey the past 18 months or so.

The Knights jersey had lost a lot of respect, from players and fans alike in the post-Johns era. Getting blokes back that had grown up here, regardless of where they played their junior footy, has been massive for us in restoring our culture. Willie, Robbie and Alex are as Newcastle as anyone else that grew up in the area, and will play accordingly.

The great shame for Knights fans where Willie is concerned is that he didn't come home earlier. We could have had a shot at him when he went to the Roosters, another when he went to the Cowboys and again when he went overseas... but ultimately I don't think Willie was ready to come home and be close to family until the twilight of his career anyway. I don't think he would have appreciated mum breathing down his neck in his earlier years, even though it probably would have been good for him.

 

[RHCP]

Mason, Rochow and McKinnon are all local juniors which were poached by other clubs.

You also fail to mention the 2013 squad had Gidley, Buderus, McManus, Mullen, Roberts, Snowden, Clydesdale, Quinn and Tahu as locals who debuted with the side, also Uate and Mantellato if the Central Coast is part of our catchment (not sure if it is), with plenty more in the reserve grade and 20's side.

So 10 players brought in (3 of whom were our juniors) in the prelim, plus three juniors (four, depending on the CC thing) and four who would have 100% been in the side bar injury/suspension, compared to the Roosters 0 juniors and 9 players who've played for another side.

The Knights are at least on par with Easts.

EDIT - Maybe it doesn't matter too much to some other clubs, but I know that everybody in Newcastle gets an immense feeling of pride to see the kids we grew up with/saw play juniors/Real NRL pulling on the red and blue.

 

[Ronnie Dobbs]

Its 2013.

Who gives a shit a bout local juniors in senior team any more?

 

[ek999]

Follwoing on from my previous post, here is a quick list of the teams and the number of players who debuted elsewhere. Numbers may not be 100% accurate but it is a good guide:

Broncos 6 (28 used) 21%
Raiders 11 (30) 37%
Bulldogs 15 (27) 56%
Cronulla 18 (29) 62%
Gold Coast 15 (30) 50%
Manly 10 (28) 36%
Melbourne 10 (28) 36%
Newcastle 15 (29) 52%
Cowboys 15 (30) 50%
Parramatta 7 (31) 23%
Penrith 18 (30) 60%
Dragons 11 (30) 37%
Souths 10 (27) 37%
Roosters 9 (25) 36%
Warriors 7 (28) 25%
Tigers 10 (34) 29&

Broncos, Parra, Warriors, Tigers are the best at debuting players. Cronulla, Penrith, Bulldogs and Newcastle are the worst

 

[thorson1987]

Follwoing on from my previous post, here is a quick list of the teams and the number of players who debuted elsewhere. Numbers may not be 100% accurate but it is a good guide:

Broncos 6 (28 used) 21%
Raiders 11 (30) 37%
Bulldogs 15 (27) 56%
Cronulla 18 (29) 62%
Gold Coast 15 (30) 50%
Manly 10 (28) 36%
Melbourne 10 (28) 36%
Newcastle 15 (29) 52%
Cowboys 15 (30) 50%
Parramatta 7 (31) 23%
Penrith 18 (30) 60%
Dragons 11 (30) 37%
Souths 10 (27) 37%
Roosters 9 (25) 36%
Warriors 7 (28) 25%
Tigers 10 (34) 29&

Broncos, Parra, Warriors, Tigers are the best at debuting players. Cronulla, Penrith, Bulldogs and Newcastle are the worst

Going off that, roosters, storm and manly have a better ratio then souths.

 

[TheVelourFog]

Follwoing on from my previous post, here is a quick list of the teams and the number of players who debuted elsewhere. Numbers may not be 100% accurate but it is a good guide:

Broncos 6 (28 used) 21%
Raiders 11 (30) 37%
Bulldogs 15 (27) 56%
Cronulla 18 (29) 62%
Gold Coast 15 (30) 50%
Manly 10 (28) 36%
Melbourne 10 (28) 36%
Newcastle 15 (29) 52%
Cowboys 15 (30) 50%
Parramatta 7 (31) 23%
Penrith 18 (30) 60%
Dragons 11 (30) 37%
Souths 10 (27) 37%
Roosters 9 (25) 36%
Warriors 7 (28) 25%
Tigers 10 (34) 29&

Broncos, Parra, Warriors, Tigers are the best at debuting players. Cronulla, Penrith, Bulldogs and Newcastle are the worst

and tellingly, 3 of the latter 4 were in the 8 while all 4 of the former were not

 

[ek999]

OK for the Knights fans. Excluding local juniors who moved back there and you are proud of them for that there is still Boyd, Costigan, Cuthbertson, Fa'alogo, Gagai, Gower, Hilder, Houston, Leilua, Scott, Smith and Waddell are all not from outside of Newcastle/Hunter region who didn't debut with the club. Thats's 41% of the players used which still has them 7th worst.