Welcome Back Luciano

[The Silverdale Phantom]

My only gripe with him is that he is at times talking about things legal that are incorrect. He also frames his comments as someone that is experienced in these things. My concern is that someone will take what he says and apply to it their decision making process rather than seek proper legal advice.
As to the questions, he asked the wrong ones.

Your error is simply assuming other people don’t know about ADVOs without a foundation for that belief

Of course people should get their own legal advice and not rely on LU.

 

[dragonreddy]

Luc looking very happy...

And looking in good shape ,sometimes the offseason has not been kind to him.
He has kept his weight in check well.

I wonder if Dean Young played a part in getting him back to us?

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

I can’t say specifically and very difficult to guess what occurred in this case, so not making any judgement or reference to this matter, but I can try and give a brief explanation of how or cases similar to this COULD happen

(One example could be and there are many variables of course) but a case could arise whereby police are called to a dv incident. Upon arrival information record information eg verbal disclosures, injuries or properTy damage , victim and/or witness statements,

Any admissions by alleged offender

A subsequent arrest and charge of a poi.

A court appearance after a not guilty plea.

One common outcome on hearing date is the non-attendance of victim and or witness, without the ability of the defence to cross examine the evidence, the charges are withdraw.

The burden of prove for the charges (which is beyond reasonable doubt) has not been able to be established, however the burden of proof is lesser for the making of an ADVO, (which is on “the balance of probability” ) That being that it has probably occurred. So Your Honour could imply from the call made by a neighbour, to the conversations and body language of parties at the scene, to damaged property, that a dv incident has taken place and the making of an order is necessary to protect one of the parties and in this case deems it appropriate to do so.

sorry if this is long winded, I tried to keep brief

Yeah we don’t have the transcript to work it out.

But the Police withdrew the main charges just before the hearing started. So far as I can work out, they still wanted the ADVO and Lucy accepted it, told the court he did and the court ordered it.

So it’s got that whiff of a deal about it.

Now if he’s going to accept it, without admissions, he’s agreeing that the ADVO should be in place, notwithstanding what the facts giving rise to the ADVO allege.

Can she rely on allegations that he doesn’t admit? I think she gives more weight to his acceptance of the order.

As for trying to revoke or vary it, I agree, he can make an application but he needs grounds. He can try at the local court ( best to wait awhile) and I learned that he can actually appeal it at the District Court, once again he’s going to need grounds. Time limits apply.

Either the Local Court or the District Court are going to want to know why he agreed with it at first instance along with some very compelling reasons why it should be re-visited.

And if it was contested and he lost, as you say, a big hurdle to overcome.

If Police withdraw the criminal matter, he can still contest the ADVO.

But no longer do Police have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. As you quite rightly opine, the test is balance of probabilities and In theory, it’s much easier for them.

You make some great points.

Oh yeah, here’s the legislation covering variations or revocation of final orders:

73(3) seems to be our subject order.



What constitutes a “change of circumstances” would need further investigation. Maybe there is some case law to assist?!

 

[2218]

You haven’t been able to answer the questions- because you don’t know much about the topic.

But your error is simply assuming other people don’t know about ADVOs without a foundation for that.

Of course people should get their own legal advice and not rely on LU.

Your questions should of been
How many restraining orders have you granted or declined.
What courts have you worked at.
How many DV victims have you given advice to.
Something along those lines and in relation to all the law stuff
What agencies have you worked with ie crime commission, federal cops asio etc
these types of questions not google or tables of knowledge. As you would know being as learned as you are, that the law is very complex and often not as black and white as some think and enforcement similar. So those who really dont know should ask questions before commenting and if they do comment maybe put a disclaimer at the bottom that they have no or little legal training. Karen

 

[Wolfgang90]

Hopefully everyone has enjoyed reading another episode of judge judy in the past few pages. I'll bring this thread back to focus....

Luciano hopefully plays his role & doesn't overplay his hand. If he can be defensively solid, pick the right moments to utilise his ball playing skills & run hard then he'll be a great asset to our team. Imo he doesn't play more than 40mins until his fitness & conditioning improves. Our team is pretty fit right now, we don't need any weak links in that area. There's also no need to rush him to play big minutes.

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

Your questions should of been
How many restraining orders have you granted or declined.
What courts have you worked at.
How many DV victims have you given advice to.
Something along those lines and in relation to all the law stuff
What agencies have you worked with ie crime commission, federal cops asio etc
these types of questions not google or tables of knowledge. As you would know being as learned as you are, that the law is very complex and often not as black and white as some think and enforcement similar. So those who really dont know should ask questions before commenting and if they do comment maybe put a disclaimer at the bottom that they have no or little legal training. Karen

You’re still telling what to say and you haven’t answered the questions.

I’ve written about ADVO’s here and invite you tell me what I’ve got wrong.

Also advise us as to what the Crime Commission, Federal Police and ASIO have to do with NSW ADVOs?

Where did I say the laws where not complex?

Did I suggest people bot

Why would I tell you qualifications and experience I have? It doesn’t matter.

But while we are at it, you can answer your own questions if you like.

Some of your earlier comments about ADVOs weren’t very well considered.

And I think the league should make a stand on ADVOs for womens round at least. Help send the message.

 

[Belta]

Yeah we don’t have the transcript to work it out.

But the Police withdrew the main charges just before the hearing started. So far as I can work out, they still wanted the ADVO and Lucy accepted it, told the court he did and the court ordered it.

So it’s got that whiff of a deal about it.

Now if he’s going to accept it, without admissions, he’s agreeing that the ADVO should be in place, notwithstanding what the facts giving rise to the ADVO allege.

Can she rely on allegations that he doesn’t admit? I think she gives more weight to his acceptance of the order.

As for trying to revoke or vary it, I agree, he can make an application but he needs grounds. He can try at the local court ( best to wait awhile) and I learned that he can actually appeal it at the District Court, once again he’s going to need grounds. Time limits apply.

Either the Local Court or the District Court are going to want to know why he agreed with it at first instance along with some very compelling reasons why it should be re-visited.

And if it was contested and he lost, as you say, a big hurdle to overcome.

If Police withdraw the criminal matter, he can still contest the ADVO.

But no longer do Police have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. As you quite rightly opine, the test is balance of probabilities and In theory, it’s much easier for them.

You make some great points.

Oh yeah, here’s the legislation covering variations or revocation of final orders:

73(3) seems to be our subject order.

View attachment 84576

What constitutes a “change of circumstances” would need further investigation. Maybe there is some case law to assist?!

Ok thanks that sheds more light. It is a very unusual situation. I won’t even speculate how that could occur, as it appears to annoy some on this forum.
Good sourcing for the application to vary, of particular relevance is 73 (3). and to allow a demonstrate to Magistrate “a change of circumstance”

I agree you would need sometime to elapse to demonstrate this change of circumstance;

for example to attend a dv course, a rehabilitation course or anger management.. and for this reason you are not likely to display the behaviour that brought about this order.

the right to have the order heard in a higher court, sure why not if you got money to burn..

 

[Belta]

Hopefully everyone has enjoyed reading another episode of judge judy in the past few pages. I'll bring this thread back to focus....

Luciano hopefully plays his role & doesn't overplay his hand. If he can be defensively solid, pick the right moments to utilise his ball playing skills & run hard then he'll be a great asset to our team. Imo he doesn't play more than 40mins until his fitness & conditioning improves. Our team is pretty fit right now, we don't need any weak links in that area. There's also no need to rush him to play big minutes.

I guess that the fact we have some decent depth in the forwards now that introducing Luc off the bench is appears to be the most common sense approach. Now can we go back to Judge Judy…Pretty please..

Like, hypothetically speaking if we were picked to go to Vegas how many of our forwards would have issues.. now don’t all answer at once

 

[denis preston]

Your questions should of been
How many restraining orders have you granted or declined.
What courts have you worked at.
How many DV victims have you given advice to.
Something along those lines and in relation to all the law stuff
What agencies have you worked with ie crime commission, federal cops asio etc
these types of questions not google or tables of knowledge. As you would know being as learned as you are, that the law is very complex and often not as black and white as some think and enforcement similar. So those who really dont know should ask questions before commenting and if they do comment maybe put a disclaimer at the bottom that they have no or little legal training.

Ok thanks that sheds more light. It is a very unusual situation. I won’t even speculate how that could occur, as it appears to annoy some on this forum.
Good sourcing for the application to vary, of particular relevance is 73 (3). and to allow a demonstrate to Magistrate “a change of circumstance”

I agree you would need sometime to elapse to demonstrate this change of circumstance;

for example to attend a dv course, a rehabilitation course or anger management.. and for this reason you are not likely to display the behaviour that brought about this order.

the right to have the order heard in a higher court, sure why not if you got money to burn..

FFS drop it or we give you & SP your own thread

 

[Nanadragon]

Why are you in the Dragon's forum again?

Turns up whenever we have a player in trouble off the paddock.
Wish he wouldn't infiltrate our forum.

 

[Nanadragon]

Go away Silverdale please.

 

[Belta]

FFS drop it or we give you & SP your own thread

Yep. That’s fair enough.

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

Ok thanks that sheds more light. It is a very unusual situation. I won’t even speculate how that could occur, as it appears to annoy some on this forum.
Good sourcing for the application to vary, of particular relevance is 73 (3). and to allow a demonstrate to Magistrate “a change of circumstance”

I agree you would need sometime to elapse to demonstrate this change of circumstance;

for example to attend a dv course, a rehabilitation course or anger management.. and for this reason you are not likely to display the behaviour that brought about this order.

the right to have the order heard in a higher court, sure why not if you got money to burn..

Thank you and you make some good points.


I’ve been open about my thoughts on Lucy, a great footballer, enormous potential who needs some counselling and help to maximise his effectiveness, understand boundaries and start behaving.

The court is the consequence of conduct, punishment, what he needs now is prevention and common sense.

And of course, I didn’t single him out for not playing in womens round, I applied it to all players.

And if a female player is on an ADVO, protecting a male or female, yes, she should be stood down for that round too.

I’m not going to be intimidated by other posters about this topic. If the mods boot me off for having discussed DV, for me, then it’s a hill worth dying on.

Maybe that concludes our dialogue on the topic for now. Much appreciated.

 

[redv13]

Thank you and you make some good points.


I’ve been open about my thoughts on Lucy, a great footballer, enormous potential who needs some counselling and help to maximise his effectiveness, understand boundaries and start behaving.

The court is the consequence of conduct, punishment, what he needs now is prevention and common sense.

And of course, I didn’t single him out for not playing in womens round, I applied it to all players.

And if a female player is on an ADVO, protecting a male or female, yes, she should be stood down for that round too.

I’m not going to be intimidated by other posters about this topic. If the mods boot me off for having discussed DV, for me, then it’s a hill worth dying on.

Maybe that concludes our dialogue on the topic for now. Much appreciated.

No one here is trying to intimidate you mate so relax. We’re here to discuss footy. Leave the legal what if’s for another forum. Season starts in a few days time, let’s focus on that

 

[Mojo]

It's Luciano's ability to apply controlled aggression on the field that we're most interested in. I'll give him an old Nokia to chuck over the fence if it helps him psych-up.

 

[RedVee]

Bro nobody spells it gaol anymore, not even the British. How old are you? 108?

I do!

but I’m only 62

 

[Mojo]

I do!

but I’m only 62

How else do people spell it?

 

[Crush]

Gaol is an obsolescent spelling of the word now usually spelled jail.
Gaol was common outside North American until fairly recently (it was stamped out of American English in the early 19th century, and dropped out of Canadian use about a century later), but it underwent a steady decline through the 20th century and now appears only rarely.
grammarist.com

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

Gaol is an obsolescent spelling of the word now usually spelled jail.
Gaol was common outside North American until fairly recently (it was stamped out of American English in the early 19th century, and dropped out of Canadian use about a century later), but it underwent a steady decline through the 20th century and now appears only rarely.
grammarist.com

Yeah, well everyone told Tesla that AC was useless, Trump would never be president and Mary would never be a first grade coach.

Gaol > jail.

Besides, those jails in TV westerns never managed to keep the accused in the sheriff’s custody for very long.

 

[Crush]

Yeah, well everyone told Tesla that AC was useless, Trump would never be president and Mary would never be a first grade coach.

Gaol > jail.

Besides, those jails in TV westerns never managed to keep the accused in custody for very long.

“Obsolescent spelling”