Wellington SHOULD be the next NRL team.

[The Mad Hatter]

They've played 7 games at Westpac. Only 2 have had less than 20000 fans. Wellingtonians vote with their feet IMO. No excuses offered by them.

The Warriors have just made massive investments to their fitness infrastructure. There's no way they'll spread their games out aside from 1 or maybe 2 per year. Firstly they incur additional costs. Secondly their membership for Aucklanders becomes less valuable with every game you take off them. Thirdly they have all their necessary facilities in Auckland. The reason clubs don't do it more than once or twice a season is it's not logistically feasible or commercially viable.

It would be interesting to see how Wellington would approach this though.

But if they're the New Zealand Warriors (I know they were once the Auckland Warriors) so shouldn't they broaden their appeal around the major NZ centres and get the whole country behind them and not just Auckland?

If a 2nd NZ team came in, dya reckon the NRL would make them change their name back to Auckland or North Island Warriors? Would seem absurd to have the NZ Warriors - supposedly representing everyone - and a 2nd regional named team. [A bit like when the Super Rugby wanted to expand and there was talk of a Western Sydney team when the Waratahs already represented all of NSW].

 

[Perth Red]

Have heard there is and isn't a bid from Wellington this time can someone clarify what is the case?

Welligton and Perth has a certain balance to it. One area will be aiming to increase the junior pool from a small base and the other is already a net contributer to the player pool without a team.

There is definitely no bid on the table from Wellington right now. May change next year if they call for bids from anywhere (Wellington RL in conjunction with nzrl is the most likely bid driver) but at this point in time, no there is no bid.

 

[Perth Red]

But if they're the New Zealand Warriors (I know they were once the Auckland Warriors) so shouldn't they broaden their appeal around the major NZ centres and get the whole country behind them and not just Auckland?

If a 2nd NZ team came in, dya reckon the NRL would make them change their name back to Auckland or North Island Warriors? Would seem absurd to have the NZ Warriors - supposedly representing everyone - and a 2nd regional named team. [A bit like when the Super Rugby wanted to expand and there was talk of a Western Sydney team when the Waratahs already represented all of NSW].

Well you've got the Melbourne heart and Melbourne victory, Sydney swans and gws, WC eagles ad Fremantle so not unheard of to have a team covering a whole area and then another one added for a specific region.

 

[flamin]

It makes sense for the Warriors to revert to Auckland if a 2nd NZ side comes in IMO.

 

[docbrown]

If a 2nd NZ team came in, dya reckon the NRL would make them change their name back to Auckland or North Island Warriors?

No have both teams called New Zealand. Ultimately what we want is everybody in NZ to be either a Warriors fan or a NZ2 fan.

Whilst there's going to be a genuine Auckland vs Central/South rivalry if someone in Dunedin wants to be a Warriors fan and someone in Auckland wants to be a NZ2 fan they're more inclined to do so.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

Well you've got the Melbourne heart and Melbourne victory, Sydney swans and gws, WC eagles ad Fremantle so not unheard of to have a team covering a whole area and then another one added for a specific region.

Two teams in a city, fine. But a city within a region...dumb (to me anyway).

[And don't get me started on provincial Super 15 have Western [WA], ACT, NSW and QLD, then bringing in Melbourne...and not naming them Victoria.]

Anyway...the more I read off this, the more maybe the NRL should look at a 2nd NZ team. Why not? I'm more for new regional ventures - Perth, Central Qld... anyway. Might make the Warriors sit up, take notice and become competitive from within. Esp with player recruitment, development if Kiwi RL players have two home options.

 

[flamin]

Is there anyone in New Zealand even making noises about an NRL bid?

A second team from NZ is really essential for the long term growth of the code.


An organised bid could give Q4 a run for their money IMO.

This is an article from last year on the Wellington bid at a time when Christchurch was being mentioned in the media as a possible location.

http://www.capitaltimes.co.nz/Second-league-spot-here

Wellington Rugby League (WRL) general manager Jason Hemson said that they have been quietly working on a proposal and business plan for a Wellington based team since 2008.
“We hadn’t gone public because we had better things to spend our money on… plus like everyone we are waiting for the NRL to come up with their criteria for expansion.”

 

[CC_Roosters]

No have both teams called New Zealand. Ultimately what we want is everybody in NZ to be either a Warriors fan or a NZ2 fan.

Whilst there's going to be a genuine Auckland vs Central/South rivalry if someone in Dunedin wants to be a Warriors fan and someone in Auckland wants to be a NZ2 fan they're more inclined to do so.

I disagree, no point in trying to be everything for everyone which is the mistake GWS Canberra giants are making right now.

Besides aren't they called the Vodafone Warriors??

Warriors must be Auckland based but a second side could be expected to play say 2 games each in Dunedin and Christchurch if it is the Southern Orcas bid that applies. Would still be 8 games in Wellington, enough to make each game more valuable.

 

[The Great Dane]

I disagree, no point in trying to be everything for everyone which is the mistake GWS Canberra giants are making right now.

Besides aren't they called the Vodafone Warriors??

Warriors must be Auckland based but a second side could be expected to play say 2 games each in Dunedin and Christchurch if it is the Southern Orcas bid that applies. Would still be 8 games in Wellington, enough to make each game more valuable.

I agree with this, if there is a new NZ bid they cannot encroach on Auckland and need to focus on the rest of the country, thus building on a large geographical and political rivalry.

Auckland vs the rest is what they should be going for and I think they captured that perfectly in the Southern Orcas name. If a South Island team does ever gain a lisence they can just revert to the Wellington Orcas but until then they can very easily represent everything south of Auckland.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

But if they're the New Zealand Warriors (I know they were once the Auckland Warriors) so shouldn't they broaden their appeal around the major NZ centres and get the whole country behind them and not just Auckland?

If a 2nd NZ team came in, dya reckon the NRL would make them change their name back to Auckland or North Island Warriors? Would seem absurd to have the NZ Warriors - supposedly representing everyone - and a 2nd regional named team. [A bit like when the Super Rugby wanted to expand and there was talk of a Western Sydney team when the Waratahs already represented all of NSW].

They're not the New Zealand Warriors officially any more anyway, they're just "The Warriors" or "Vodafone Warriors". So there's no need to change their branding, they'd basically be an Auckland based team but not branded so explicitly to be off-putting for fans from outside the region. I would like to see them revert to more traditional Auckland colours though.
Agree that the expansion team should go with the "Southern" moniker, it's non-specific enough for pretty much anyone south of the Bombay Hills to adopt them.

 

[docbrown]

I disagree, no point in trying to be everything for everyone which is the mistake GWS Canberra giants are making right now.

Whilst I find it amusing that GWS are now the touchstone for everything bad about sports teams, I don't agree with your comparison. For starters, the NZ2 side would be based in area that has rugby league fans but who don't currently have a home team... compare that to GWS who were plonked into a city that already had a team and who play a minor sport.

Like I was saying though, for people that want to view the auckland vs rest rivalry, then they will just associate the Warriors with Auckland and NZ2 with the south, regardless of whether or not they're physically called 'Auckland Warriors' and 'Southern Orcas'. They will just form the association in their minds (like people associating Sydney Roosters with the Eastern Suburbs still even though they've rebranding. Even young kids who weren't alive when they were Easts are able to make the association).

So no, I don't think you have to rebrand back to Auckland. By having two New Zealand wide brands you can offer a wider choice to the population. Some people in Auckland and the Northern most part of the country might dislike the Warriors but could be put off by a team called 'Wellington' or 'Southern'. And vice versa. It's the same principle behind the Brisbane expansion as well. People want a choice. If you put an 'Ipswich' brand in, you might not get the same numbers as if you were to put in a 'Brisbane' or 'South Queensland' brand...

The people who want to focus on the rivalry will focus on it regardless of what they're called.

The people who want an option will have an option and will be less inhibited in choosing it.

I do agree that NZ2 should form its base in Wellington & South Island. They can just as easily promote themselves there being called the 'New Zealand Orcas'.

To be honest though I'm not entirely sold on the Orcas concept but that's another debate

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

They should NOT be the New Zealand Orcas.

i completely agree the Wellington Orcas would be wrong aswell (too focussed), but they cannot just copy the Warriors.
Brisbane Bombers name choice wasnt exactly a raging success...

 

[Highway1]

Whilst I find it amusing that GWS are now the touchstone for everything bad about sports teams, I don't agree with your comparison. For starters, the NZ2 side would be based in area that has rugby league fans but who don't currently have a home team... compare that to GWS who were plonked into a city that already had a team and who play a minor sport.

Like I was saying though, for people that want to view the auckland vs rest rivalry, then they will just associate the Warriors with Auckland and NZ2 with the south, regardless of whether or not they're physically called 'Auckland Warriors' and 'Southern Orcas'. They will just form the association in their minds (like people associating Sydney Roosters with the Eastern Suburbs still even though they've rebranding. Even young kids who weren't alive when they were Easts are able to make the association).

So no, I don't think you have to rebrand back to Auckland. By having two New Zealand wide brands you can offer a wider choice to the population. Some people in Auckland and the Northern most part of the country might dislike the Warriors but could be put off by a team called 'Wellington' or 'Southern'. And vice versa. It's the same principle behind the Brisbane expansion as well. People want a choice. If you put an 'Ipswich' brand in, you might not get the same numbers as if you were to put in a 'Brisbane' or 'South Queensland' brand...

The people who want to focus on the rivalry will focus on it regardless of what they're called.

The people who want an option will have an option and will be less inhibited in choosing it.

I do agree that NZ2 should form its base in Wellington & South Island. They can just as easily promote themselves there being called the 'New Zealand Orcas'.

To be honest though I'm not entirely sold on the Orcas concept but that's another debate

What about Tasman Orcas?
A good way of being inclusive without using he already occupied 'New Zealand'. A descriptive name that is enough to distinguish the Wellington based Orcas from other club areas, and stops the Orcas from looking like a corporate venture like the Hurricanes

 

[The Great Dane]

Calling them the New Zealand Orcas would be a massive mistake, but the Aotearoa Orcas might work.

But I doubt they will go with a New Zealand/Aotearoa nationwide sort of name, they'd be mad to.

 

[GAZF]

What about Tasman Orcas?
A good way of being inclusive without using he already occupied 'New Zealand'. A descriptive name that is enough to distinguish the Wellington based Orcas from other club areas, and stops the Orcas from looking like a corporate venture like the Hurricanes

If they want to push for Christchurch as a primary market then I'd say no since the Tasman is about 200 km west.

 

[Dogs Of War]

How about calling them Aotearoa (Maori for NZ) Toa.

toa1. (verb) to win.
Ka toa au i ngā whakataetae e rua - ko te hopuhopu, ko te mamau o te wāhanga tamariki (HP 1991:27). / I won two competitions - catching and wrestling for the juniors.
2. (stative) be brave, bold, victorious, experienced, accomplished, adept, competent, skilful, capable.
He toa kē ake au i a rātau ki te hī ika (HP 1991:16). / I was more skilful than them at line fishing.
3. (noun) courage, bravery, champion, winner, expert.
He tino toa mō te hoe poti (HP 1991:24). / A real expert at rowing boats. See also tiamupiana.
4. (noun) warrior, brave man.
Nā reira ka āta whakatahi te iwi me i kore te hoariri e whai atu ki te ururua o te ngahere i tua atu o te pā, kia haupapatia ai e Heke me ana toa (TTR 1990:7). / And so the people deliberately withdrew in the hope that the enemy might follow into the undergrowth of the bush on the other side of the pā, so that they could be ambushed by Heke and his warriors.
5. (noun) male (of animals, birds and insects).
He manu te kōmako; ka tangi ana i te awatea, ka tangi tētahi i konei, ka tangi tētahi i korā; nā, i te pō ka tangi ko tētahi anake, ka kīia ko tērā te toa (JPS 1956:201). / The bellbird is a bird which, when it sings in the daytime one will sing here another from somewhere else; and, when one sings alone in the night, that is said to be the male bird.

 

[jamesgould]

Southern or Wellington would make the most sense. Southern describes the area they'd be covering nicely. If it's too vague, then Wellington shouldn't alienate people in the South Island. After all, the Wellington Phoenix seem to get their biggest crowds by far outside of Wellington!

Just on the Warriors, they haven't been referred to as New Zealand in over a decade. They're just the Warriors, in the media, and in all official NRL releases.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

Just on the Warriors, they haven't been referred to as New Zealand in over a decade. They're just the Warriors, in the media, and in all official NRL releases.

Nah...they represent the good people of Vodafone.

You know...that little country near QANTAS with all the Wallabies...

 

[docbrown]

They should NOT be the New Zealand Orcas.

i completely agree the Wellington Orcas would be wrong aswell (too focussed), but they cannot just copy the Warriors.
Brisbane Bombers name choice wasnt exactly a raging success...

The Brisbane Bombers bid is faulty because of other reasons, it's not because they have the word 'Brisbane' in their name. So I disagree when you try to apply that logic to the NZ2 team.

If some other NZ club came in and called themselves the Wellington Whatevers, the Warriors should market the hell out the New Zealand Warriors branding because it's selling the club to the biggest audience.

Why should they reduce their potential fanbase just to accommodate some other club? Instead both clubs should be marketing to the entirety of New Zealand hence both should have an identity that reflects it.

But I doubt they will go with a New Zealand/Aotearoa nationwide sort of name, they'd be mad to.

Why would they be mad too? It sells them to all of New Zealand, not just one city...

For what its worth I'd have no problem if it was the Aotearoa Warriors and the New Zealand Orcas as the Warriors would probably have the stronger maori fan base but honestly, there's no need. There's no problem with having two clubs in the NRL both called New Zealand.

What do people think is going to happen? People won't sign up for memberships or go to games because they're called 'New Zealand'? The argument against it doesn't make any sense.

What about Tasman Orcas?
A good way of being inclusive without using he already occupied 'New Zealand'.

I suppose you have to ask if Tasman represents both areas (Wellington & South Island) strongly enough.

Nah...they represent the good people of Vodafone.

You know...that little country near QANTAS with all the Wallabies...

:lol:

 

[jamesgould]

This is a ridiculous argument. Are you expecting a load of Auckland fans to start supporting the side and fly down every fortnight to attend a game? It's like saying the Titans should have been called the Australian Titans because otherwise it excludes people from Newcastle.

The NZ 2 side should be focused on gaining support and ownership from the people of Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin. Auckland fans, while welcome, are irrelevant.